So I had this ruled against me a little a month back.
Boardstate:
Me: Brainstorm and Notion Thief in-hand.
Opponent: Notion Thief on the field.
Opponent ends his turn. During end step, I cast Brainstorm. Asks for response. He has no response and passes priority back to me. I then cast my Notion Thief.
Judge gets called over and rules that he gets the draw because it's his turn, so he has priority over the effects and so he gets to replace my draw 3 with him drawing 3 instead (and I have to place 2 on top of my deck). Idk...his reasoning was a bit hazy...truth be told, I don't fully understand his ruling; was too depressed about earlier misplays during that match.
This confused me because, I figured that since I cast Brainstorm, unless a replacement effect happens, I'll just be able to resolve it normally. Of course, with him having Notion Thief, he'd be able to respond and replace my draw 3, with him drawing 3. Then since he's drawing 3, while I have a Thief out, I can replace that and let myself draw 3 (effectively letting the card resolve normally). And since replacement effects can only happen once, the chain ends there. I'm pretty sure I'm right here, but am I missing something?
Sidenote nitpick: Notion Thief's effect is static and a replacement effect, right? So would "respond" be semantically incorrect to say, because it doesn't use the stack? When and where does Thief uses its effect? Can I wait until Thief replaces whose draw it is, and then cast a card in response to when he would draw that said something like, "opponent loses 1 life for each card he draws?" Or would that be too late?
Reprints the one card that people point to when saying that art objectifies women.
Well done Wizards.
Liliana does not objectify women in any way at all. We have gotten to a point in our society that every single picture of a women must be objectifying a women in some negative way......blah blah blah.. That is not the case. (((Sarcasm)))Picture of a girl drinking a milk shake, must be sex related and putting women down, picture of girl sitting on a beach, picture of a girl driving a car, picture of a girl on the moon at a new space station.)))
You have a picture of an attractive strong power women who girls dress up as for anime conventions. What more do you want? The picture is fine, happy to see a reprint. Sick of of seeing people claim that everything in existence must be putting women down. Then all I have to do is replace the word "women" with anything else to get the same mentality; fish, cats, arabs, blacks, jews, men, environment, whites, chinese, old people, etc. It doesn't matter what word I put in. Stop sucking life out of everything man. That artwork of her is awesome. Stop putting stuff down man. Just stop. If the picture was really as negative as you claim she would totally nude, in a kitchen, making sandwiches and giving blow jobs. Her abilities would be horrible as well. +1 do nothing -2 do nothing -6 do nothing. Instead liliana of the veil is an amazing planeswalker comparable to jace, the mind sculpter with great art to appreciate.
My suggestion listen to some comedy radio for a while, pandora is free, youtube is free there is something out there for you. ***** go make fun of somebody. The whole world is so serious and campaigning for some cause, or someones rights, everything is a hate crime, racist, sexist. blah blah blah.
"O no mcdonalds must be slandering a hate crime against skinny people every time they make a big mac." hahaha jeeze You're just someone perpetuating another groups negative perspective that they've made you believe is correct. Look at the picture for a hour and tell me what's wrong with it? I don't see anything.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
4/15/2013: If you and an opponent each control a Notion Thief, the replacement effects generated by their abilities will essentially cancel each other out. If the opponent would draw a card other than the first of his or her draw step, that draw will be skipped and you'll draw a card. The opponent's Notion Thief will then cause that draw to be skipped and the opponent will draw a card instead. Neither replacement effect can apply to this event again, so your opponent draws a card.
As to your second question, you would need to cast your spell in response to whatever is making you/your opponent draw the card, and that would work, as he will then draw the cards and lose the life. While the ability is resolving (he is physically drawing the card/s) yes, then it is too late.
Opponent ends his turn. During end step, I cast Brainstorm. Asks for response. He has no response and passes priority back to me. I then cast my Notion Thief.
You do not get priority back after your opponent if he does not respond. Brainstorm would resolve and you do not have an opportunity to cast Notion Thief. If you want to cast Notion Thief you would need to hold priority after casting Brainstorm or do so before casting Brainstorm.
To answer the question you are asking though, yes you would get to draw three. If both players in a game control Notion Thief they effectively cancel each other out.
Private Mod Note
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"To face death, that's nothing much. But to feel really stupid when you die, well, that would be insufferable." -Nafai, The Ships of Earth
Ever wanted to know what guidelines Judges use to make rulings? Find out at the DCI Document Center.
You can also find the latest Comprehensive Rules here.
Opponent ends his turn. During end step, I cast Brainstorm. Asks for response. He has no response and passes priority back to me. I then cast my Notion Thief.
Here is where you went wrong. If you pass priority to your opponent, then he passes it back, the top most object on the stack will resolve, and you won't be able to cast the Notion Thief.
Judge gets called over and rules that he gets the draw because it's his turn, so he has priority over the effects and so he gets to replace my draw 3 with him drawing 3 instead (and I have to place 2 on top of my deck). Idk...his reasoning was a bit hazy...truth be told, I don't fully understand his ruling; was too depressed about earlier misplays during that match.
This confused me because, I figured that since I cast Brainstorm, unless a replacement effect happens, I'll just be able to resolve it normally.
The Judge was wrong for why your opponent gets the cards, but the end result is the same.
Of course, with him having Notion Thief, he'd be able to respond and replace my draw 3, with him drawing 3. Then since he's drawing 3, while I have a Thief out, I can replace that and let myself draw 3 (effectively letting the card resolve normally). And since replacement effects can only happen once, the chain ends there. I'm pretty sure I'm right here, but am I missing something?
That is exactly right. A Notion Thief on both sides of the table result in one applying, then the other (because now your NT sees an opponent drawing cards), which amounts to a normal draw.
Sidenote nitpick: Notion Thief's effect is static and a replacement effect, right? So would "respond" be semantically incorrect to say, because it doesn't use the stack? When and where does Thief uses its effect? Can I wait until Thief replaces whose draw it is, and then cast a card in response to when he would draw that said something like, "opponent loses 1 life for each card he draws?" Or would that be too late?
Correct again. Replacement effects are applied when the actual action is taken, and do not use the stack. So, when you draw 3 cards for Brainstorm, that is happening during the resolution of that spell. His replacement effect applies as you would draw those cards, and he draws them instead. You can't cast Notion Thief during the resolution of a spell or ability, but you could cast it in response to a spell or ability that you know would result in your opponent drawing a card.
As to your second question, you would need to cast your spell in response to whatever is making you/your opponent draw the card, and that would work, as he is still physically drawing the card. While the ability is resolving (he is physically drawing the card/s) yes, then it is too late.
You do not get priority back after your opponent if he does not respond. Brainstorm would resolve and you do not have an opportunity to cast Notion Thief. If you want to cast Notion Thief you would need to hold priority after casting Brainstorm or do so before casting Brainstorm.
To answer the question you are asking though, yes you would get to draw three. If both players in a game control Notion Thief they effectively cancel each other out.
Hmm, damn. That's definitely one difference (among many) between this game and Yugioh. lol Will have to keep that in mind.
Ah, k thanks.
Mind if I ask another follow-up question to stack rulings? What happens when say, someone casts:
Player A: Brainstorm --> holds priority --> Quicken --> no response from opponent?
So Player A gets to resolve Quicken and draw a card. Great.
Would he retain priority and get to cast say, Divination (instant speed) before resolving Brainstorm?*
Or would opponent get priority after Quicken resolves but before Player A can cast another card (idk, a clever VClique play?)?
*1) If Player A retains priority and gets to cast Divination, can the opponent respond to Divination with a counter spell and counter any card in the stack -- particularly a card deeper in the stack (in this case, Brainstorm)?
Reprints the one card that people point to when saying that art objectifies women.
Well done Wizards.
Liliana does not objectify women in any way at all. We have gotten to a point in our society that every single picture of a women must be objectifying a women in some negative way......blah blah blah.. That is not the case. (((Sarcasm)))Picture of a girl drinking a milk shake, must be sex related and putting women down, picture of girl sitting on a beach, picture of a girl driving a car, picture of a girl on the moon at a new space station.)))
You have a picture of an attractive strong power women who girls dress up as for anime conventions. What more do you want? The picture is fine, happy to see a reprint. Sick of of seeing people claim that everything in existence must be putting women down. Then all I have to do is replace the word "women" with anything else to get the same mentality; fish, cats, arabs, blacks, jews, men, environment, whites, chinese, old people, etc. It doesn't matter what word I put in. Stop sucking life out of everything man. That artwork of her is awesome. Stop putting stuff down man. Just stop. If the picture was really as negative as you claim she would totally nude, in a kitchen, making sandwiches and giving blow jobs. Her abilities would be horrible as well. +1 do nothing -2 do nothing -6 do nothing. Instead liliana of the veil is an amazing planeswalker comparable to jace, the mind sculpter with great art to appreciate.
My suggestion listen to some comedy radio for a while, pandora is free, youtube is free there is something out there for you. ***** go make fun of somebody. The whole world is so serious and campaigning for some cause, or someones rights, everything is a hate crime, racist, sexist. blah blah blah.
"O no mcdonalds must be slandering a hate crime against skinny people every time they make a big mac." hahaha jeeze You're just someone perpetuating another groups negative perspective that they've made you believe is correct. Look at the picture for a hour and tell me what's wrong with it? I don't see anything.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
Hmm, damn. That's definitely one difference between this game and Yugioh. lol Will have to keep that in mind.
Ah, k thanks.
Mind if I ask another follow-up question to stack rulings? What happens when say, someone casts:
Player A: Brainstorm --> holds priority --> Quicken --> no response from opponent?
Player A would be able to resolve Quicken successfully and draw a card. Would he retain priority to cast say, Divination (instant speed) before resolving Brainstorm?* Or would opponent get priority after Quicken resolves but before Player A can cast another card (idk, a clever VClique play?)?
*1) If Player A retains priority and gets to cast Divination, which I assume now the opponent can respond to Divination, can he respond with a counter spell and counter a card deeper in the stack (in this case, Brainstorm)?
Each time a spell or ability resolves, the active player receives priority. So using your example above, it depends on whose turn it is. Assuming Player A is the active player, then he recieves priority again after Quicken resolves, and can cast spells or activate abilities. If he is not the active player, then he has to wait for the active player to pass priority back to him. Either way, he can cast a sorcery at "instant speed" the next time he gets priority, whether that is in response to that VClique or after the brainstorm resolves, or anytime he has priority that turn.
Any action you do, your opponent has an opportunity to respond. Any action your opponent does, you have an opportunity to respond. *
In addition, the counterspell, can counter any legal target. Brainstorm, while it is still on the stack, is still a legal target because it is still a spell
EDIT: * I should note, any action that uses the stack. Turn based actions and special actions do not use the stack, and can't be responded to
Boardstate:
Me: Brainstorm and Notion Thief in-hand.
Opponent: Notion Thief on the field.
Opponent ends his turn. During end step, I cast Brainstorm. Asks for response. He has no response and passes priority back to me. I then cast my Notion Thief.
Judge gets called over and rules that he gets the draw because it's his turn, so he has priority over the effects and so he gets to replace my draw 3 with him drawing 3 instead (and I have to place 2 on top of my deck). Idk...his reasoning was a bit hazy...truth be told, I don't fully understand his ruling; was too depressed about earlier misplays during that match.
This confused me because, I figured that since I cast Brainstorm, unless a replacement effect happens, I'll just be able to resolve it normally. Of course, with him having Notion Thief, he'd be able to respond and replace my draw 3, with him drawing 3. Then since he's drawing 3, while I have a Thief out, I can replace that and let myself draw 3 (effectively letting the card resolve normally). And since replacement effects can only happen once, the chain ends there. I'm pretty sure I'm right here, but am I missing something?
Sidenote nitpick: Notion Thief's effect is static and a replacement effect, right? So would "respond" be semantically incorrect to say, because it doesn't use the stack? When and where does Thief uses its effect? Can I wait until Thief replaces whose draw it is, and then cast a card in response to when he would draw that said something like, "opponent loses 1 life for each card he draws?" Or would that be too late?
(bolding mine)
From Magic Card Info
In short, the judge was wrong.
As to your second question, you would need to cast your spell in response to whatever is making you/your opponent draw the card, and that would work, as he will then draw the cards and lose the life. While the ability is resolving (he is physically drawing the card/s) yes, then it is too late.
You do not get priority back after your opponent if he does not respond. Brainstorm would resolve and you do not have an opportunity to cast Notion Thief. If you want to cast Notion Thief you would need to hold priority after casting Brainstorm or do so before casting Brainstorm.
To answer the question you are asking though, yes you would get to draw three. If both players in a game control Notion Thief they effectively cancel each other out.
Ever wanted to know what guidelines Judges use to make rulings? Find out at the DCI Document Center.
You can also find the latest Comprehensive Rules here.
Here is where you went wrong. If you pass priority to your opponent, then he passes it back, the top most object on the stack will resolve, and you won't be able to cast the Notion Thief.
The Judge was wrong for why your opponent gets the cards, but the end result is the same.
That is exactly right. A Notion Thief on both sides of the table result in one applying, then the other (because now your NT sees an opponent drawing cards), which amounts to a normal draw.
Correct again. Replacement effects are applied when the actual action is taken, and do not use the stack. So, when you draw 3 cards for Brainstorm, that is happening during the resolution of that spell. His replacement effect applies as you would draw those cards, and he draws them instead. You can't cast Notion Thief during the resolution of a spell or ability, but you could cast it in response to a spell or ability that you know would result in your opponent drawing a card.
Yeah, that's what I figured. GG me. T-T
Thanks, gotcha.
Hmm, damn. That's definitely one difference (among many) between this game and Yugioh. lol Will have to keep that in mind.
Ah, k thanks.
Mind if I ask another follow-up question to stack rulings? What happens when say, someone casts:
Player A: Brainstorm --> holds priority --> Quicken --> no response from opponent?
So Player A gets to resolve Quicken and draw a card. Great.
Would he retain priority and get to cast say, Divination (instant speed) before resolving Brainstorm?*
Or would opponent get priority after Quicken resolves but before Player A can cast another card (idk, a clever VClique play?)?
*1) If Player A retains priority and gets to cast Divination, can the opponent respond to Divination with a counter spell and counter any card in the stack -- particularly a card deeper in the stack (in this case, Brainstorm)?
Each time a spell or ability resolves, the active player receives priority. So using your example above, it depends on whose turn it is. Assuming Player A is the active player, then he recieves priority again after Quicken resolves, and can cast spells or activate abilities. If he is not the active player, then he has to wait for the active player to pass priority back to him. Either way, he can cast a sorcery at "instant speed" the next time he gets priority, whether that is in response to that VClique or after the brainstorm resolves, or anytime he has priority that turn.
Any action you do, your opponent has an opportunity to respond. Any action your opponent does, you have an opportunity to respond. *
In addition, the counterspell, can counter any legal target. Brainstorm, while it is still on the stack, is still a legal target because it is still a spell
EDIT: * I should note, any action that uses the stack. Turn based actions and special actions do not use the stack, and can't be responded to