I was reading a recent tournament report. A player attacked with two mishra's factory, then activated four maze of ith at one, and used the factories pump ability 4 times on the other. How exactly does this work? Are you responding to each untap with a pump? Could you technically do this with a card like Grim Lavamancer, provided you pay the red and two cards each time?
It works because Maze doesn't remove the creature from combat. The first instance of Maze's ability resolves, untapping it. Then you can activate Factory's ability. Then you can use Maze #2 targeting it, because it's still an attacking creature. Rinse, Repeat.
It would work the same way with Lavamancers, or any creature with a tap ability.
I was reading a recent tournament report. A player attacked with two mishra's factory, then activated four maze of ith at one, and used the factories pump ability 4 times on the other. How exactly does this work? Are you responding to each untap with a pump? Could you technically do this with a card like Grim Lavamancer, provided you pay the red and two cards each time?
You can do these shenanigans at the end of the declare attackers or declare blockers step. Lets just say you want to do this at the end of the declare attackers step.
Both Factories are tapped and attacking, meaning that they are both legal targets for Maze of Ith. You target Factory #1 with Maze at the end of the declare attackers step. The stack resolves, untapping Factory #1. You gain priority again so you tap Factory #1 to give Factory #2 +1/+1. The stack resolves. You gain priority again so you use Maze of Ith to untap Factory #1. The stack resolves, untapping Factory #1. Etc.
Maze of Ith only cares if a creature was declared as an attacker; not whether or not the creature is tapped upon activation. It also does not say that it removes the creature from combat- so the creature is still attacking even after Maze of Ith's ability resolves.
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Not that this scenario is the same, but another cool "maze of ith shenanigan" is that you can ninjitsu creatures into play by returning a "mazed" creature.
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You can do these shenanigans at the end of the declare attackers or declare blockers step. Lets just say you want to do this at the end of the declare attackers step.
Both Factories are tapped and attacking, meaning that they are both legal targets for Maze of Ith. You target Factory #1 with Maze at the end of the declare attackers step. The stack resolves, untapping Factory #1. You gain priority again so you tap Factory #1 to give Factory #2 +1/+1. The stack resolves. You gain priority again so you use Maze of Ith to untap Factory #1. The stack resolves, untapping Factory #1. Etc.
Maze of Ith only cares if a creature was declared as an attacker; not whether or not the creature is tapped upon activation. It also does not say that it removes the creature from combat- so the creature is still attacking even after Maze of Ith's ability resolves.
Just to clarify, the "stack" does not resolve. The stack is a game zone. Items on the stack resolve individually.
Not that this scenario is the same, but another cool "maze of ith shenanigan" is that you can ninjitsu creatures into play by returning a "mazed" creature.
This is not true. Maze of Ith does not modify the creature's blocked/unblocked status in combat, so you cannot do this unless the creature is already unblocked. Unless you're just saying that when your opponent uses Maze of Ith so he doesn't have to block it, you use ninjutsu, which is just as true as for any other unblocked creature. This is also not relevant to rules.
How exactly does this work with a KotR? Are you able to declare it as attacking, untap with maze, tap to sac a forest/plains and fetch a land, and it is still attacking? Are you able to give it pseudo-vigilance? This whole maze thing has confused me for a while.
It works because tapping or untapping a creature that is already attacking does nothing to change the fact that it's attacking. Straight from its Gatherer rulings:
The creature is still part of the combat. It just has its damage prevented. Don't infer something from the fact that it becomes untapped.
How exactly does this work with a KotR? Are you able to declare it as attacking, untap with maze, tap to sac a forest/plains and fetch a land, and it is still attacking? Are you able to give it pseudo-vigilance? This whole maze thing has confused me for a while.
All of what you said works, but remember, Maze of Ith prevents all combat damage dealt to and dealt by attacking creature. So KotR would get bigger, but would still deal no damage in combat.
How exactly does this work with a KotR? Are you able to declare it as attacking, untap with maze, tap to sac a forest/plains and fetch a land, and it is still attacking? Are you able to give it pseudo-vigilance? This whole maze thing has confused me for a while.
You can also actually attack with KotR and have it deal it's damage first, then after damage is dealt untap it with MoI before end of combat. This way, your KotR will still deal its damage and still gets untapped to block on your opponents turn and activate it's ability. It's still an attacking creature until end of combat phase even after damage is dealt so it's still a valid target for MoI.
How exactly does this work with a KotR? Are you able to declare it as attacking, untap with maze, tap to sac a forest/plains and fetch a land, and it is still attacking? Are you able to give it pseudo-vigilance? This whole maze thing has confused me for a while.
All of what you said works, but remember, Maze of Ith prevents all combat damage dealt to and dealt by attacking creature. So KotR would get bigger, but would still deal no damage in combat.
What? That's not how the Maze trick works. You get priority in the End of Combat step after damage is dealt while Knight is still considered an attacking creature and you untap it. That's where the 'pseudo-vigilance' comes from.
How exactly does this work with a KotR? Are you able to declare it as attacking, untap with maze, tap to sac a forest/plains and fetch a land, and it is still attacking? Are you able to give it pseudo-vigilance? This whole maze thing has confused me for a while.
What? That's not how the Maze trick works. You get priority in the End of Combat step after damage is dealt while Knight is still considered an attacking creature and you untap it. That's where the 'pseudo-vigilance' comes from.
You are right, that's not how the Maze trick works, but that is not the question I was responding to. Bold emphasis is mine to differentiate with what I was responding to, and what you were referring to. He was stating using the Maze after declaring it as an attacker, and not, as would be needed, after the combat damage step.
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It would work the same way with Lavamancers, or any creature with a tap ability.
You can do these shenanigans at the end of the declare attackers or declare blockers step. Lets just say you want to do this at the end of the declare attackers step.
Both Factories are tapped and attacking, meaning that they are both legal targets for Maze of Ith. You target Factory #1 with Maze at the end of the declare attackers step. The stack resolves, untapping Factory #1. You gain priority again so you tap Factory #1 to give Factory #2 +1/+1. The stack resolves. You gain priority again so you use Maze of Ith to untap Factory #1. The stack resolves, untapping Factory #1. Etc.
Maze of Ith only cares if a creature was declared as an attacker; not whether or not the creature is tapped upon activation. It also does not say that it removes the creature from combat- so the creature is still attacking even after Maze of Ith's ability resolves.
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Just to clarify, the "stack" does not resolve. The stack is a game zone. Items on the stack resolve individually.
This is not true. Maze of Ith does not modify the creature's blocked/unblocked status in combat, so you cannot do this unless the creature is already unblocked. Unless you're just saying that when your opponent uses Maze of Ith so he doesn't have to block it, you use ninjutsu, which is just as true as for any other unblocked creature. This is also not relevant to rules.
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All of what you said works, but remember, Maze of Ith prevents all combat damage dealt to and dealt by attacking creature. So KotR would get bigger, but would still deal no damage in combat.
You can also actually attack with KotR and have it deal it's damage first, then after damage is dealt untap it with MoI before end of combat. This way, your KotR will still deal its damage and still gets untapped to block on your opponents turn and activate it's ability. It's still an attacking creature until end of combat phase even after damage is dealt so it's still a valid target for MoI.
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What? That's not how the Maze trick works. You get priority in the End of Combat step after damage is dealt while Knight is still considered an attacking creature and you untap it. That's where the 'pseudo-vigilance' comes from.
You are right, that's not how the Maze trick works, but that is not the question I was responding to. Bold emphasis is mine to differentiate with what I was responding to, and what you were referring to. He was stating using the Maze after declaring it as an attacker, and not, as would be needed, after the combat damage step.