Does a Ghastly Demise, cast with nothing in the graveyard, kill a 1 toughness creature? If not, why?
My confusion comes from the fact that, with only a sorcery and a land in the graveyards, a Tarmogoyf survives a lightning bolt. Can you please explain the difference?
You need to use cardtags when asking questions. ~parinoid
Ghastly Demise can target any nonblack creature. On resolution, it only destroys that creature if it has toughness less than the number of cards in your graveyard. At the time that is checked, the spell is on the stack.
Oh, I thought he was talking about playing a spell that is countering a spell with counters on it as it comes into play, but I see you guys were just discussing whether he was flashing a creature with flash in order to flash a flashback or just flashing a creature with flash but not needing flash in order to flashback a spell without flash.
To add to the above point, a non-creature spell is not put into the graveyard until the very end, after any effects of the spell have occurred. This is why it is not in the graveyard and will not kill a 1 toughness creature.
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Tarmogoyf/Bolt is different because a Tarmogoyf that gets Bolted won't die until state-based actions are checked. At that point, Lightning Bolt will be in the graveyard. This difference is because Lightning Bolt puts damage on the creature and lets state-based actions to do the dirty work of actually destroying the creature, while Ghastly Demise just destroys it.
The difference for Tarmogoyf is that Lightning Bolt doesn't destroy a creature; state-based actions destroy a creature with lethal damage marked on it. When state-based actions are checked (after the spell has finished resolving and is in the graveyard), the Tarmogoyf is seen by the game as a 3/4 with 3 damage marked on it, and no state-based actions apply.
For Ghastly Demise, it attempts to destroy a creature during resolution, at which time you have no cards in your graveyard because it's still on the stack.
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It's because ghastly demise destroys a creature if it's toughness is less <= the # of cards in your grave as part of it's resolution. At that time, there are no cards in your yard. The lightning bolt scenario works as it does because the bolt is dealing damage. Damage doesn't destroy, state based effects do. and those aren't checked until lightning bolt is fully resolved, and thus in the graveyard. Thus 'goyf's static ability sees and counts it.
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My confusion comes from the fact that, with only a sorcery and a land in the graveyards, a Tarmogoyf survives a lightning bolt. Can you please explain the difference?
You need to use cardtags when asking questions. ~parinoid
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
-regarding Snapcaster Mage.
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For Ghastly Demise, it attempts to destroy a creature during resolution, at which time you have no cards in your graveyard because it's still on the stack.
This FAQ answers many of the common questions asked in the MTGS Rulings forum. Take a look!
I'm the editor/content manager of the Magic Rules Tips Blog - Bookmark this site for daily tips about game and tournament rules.
"Abstract concepts of perfect judging run headlong into the realities of how people play the game." - Toby Elliott (papa_funk)
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