Ok, I have heard numerous theories but no definitve answer. The question I have is, If I attack with Geist of Saint Taft, then activate my Sundial of the Infinite to keep the 4/4 Angel, then next turn do the same do I lose both Angels? Or do I keep the Angel from the prior turn and just lose the newly created one? Thanks for all your help
Please use card tags in future posts. The Forum Guidelines explain how to do that. -Carsten
Geist's ability creates a delayed triggered ability that will trigger at the beginning of the next end of combat step (regardless of whose turn that step occurs in). Once that ability has been triggered once, it will never trigger for that token again.
So if you end the turn before the end of combat, the delayed triggered ability will go off during your opponent's end of combat step and exile the token, but if you end the turn during your end of combat step with the exile trigger on the stack, the ability will be exiled and you will get to keep your token indefinitely.
Each of these delayed triggers can only exile the token that was created by the same instance of the ability that created the trigger.
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Ok, because I tried this against someone and they insisted that ALL Angel tokens must be exiled.
This may seem like a very elementary question but exactly when is the end of combat step? Could I hit with the saint and angel then activate the sundial to keep the angel. Or would no damage need to be dealt then activate the sundial to keep the angel?
The end of combat step is part of the combat phase and happens after the combat damage step (regardless of whether any creatures dealt any combat damage.) Normally nothing of interest happens during this step apart from a round of players getting priority, but anything that triggers "at end of combat" triggers at the beginning of this step and can be responded to accordingly.
This may seem like a very elementary question but exactly when is the end of combat step? Could I hit with the saint and angel then activate the sundial to keep the angel. Or would no damage need to be dealt then activate the sundial to keep the angel?
The end of combat step is the last step within the combat phase. It occurs right after the "Combat Damage Step." (The combat damage step is the one in which combat damage is dealt).
"Whenever Geist of Saint Traft attacks, put a 4/4 white Angel creature token with flying onto the battlefield tapped and attacking. Exile that token at end of combat."
That reads that the token will be exiled whenever the end of combat comes up. This is because its not exiled at the next end of combat but at all end of combats.
This may seem like a very elementary question but exactly when is the end of combat step? Could I hit with the saint and angel then activate the sundial to keep the angel. Or would no damage need to be dealt then activate the sundial to keep the angel?
There are five Steps during the Combat Phase.
The first Step is the "Beginning of Combat Step". Both players get priority before attackers are declared. Once all players have passed priority on an empty stack, the game proceeds to the next Step.
The second Step is the "Declare Attackers Step". The first thing that happens here is that the attackers are declared; this action does not use the stack. Then, both players get priority. Once all players have passed priority on an empty stack, the game proceeds to the next Step.
The third Step is the "Declare Blockers Step". The first thing that happens here is that the blockers are declared; this action does not use the stack. Then, both players get priority. Once all players have passed priority on an empty stack, the game proceeds to the next Step.
The fourth Step is the "Damage Step". If necessary, attackers and blockers are ordered here. Damage is assigned and dealt. Then, both players get priority. Once all players have passed priority on an empty stack, the game proceeds to the next Step.
The fifth Step is the "End of Combat Step". At this point, Geist of Saint Traft's trigger will be placed on the stack. Then, players get priority and now is the appropriate time to use Sundial of the Infinite to "stifle" the Geist trigger. This is much, much after combat damage is dealt.
Thank you so much everyone, this really clears alot of questions I had regarding this card up. Now I can go back to using him as I originally planed to.
"Whenever Geist of Saint Traft attacks, put a 4/4 white Angel creature token with flying onto the battlefield tapped and attacking. Exile that token at end of combat."
"Whenever Geist of Saint Traft attacks, put a 4/4 white Angel creature token with flying onto the battlefield tapped and attacking. That token has "exile this token at end of combat.""
The first ability is a delayed trigger, which will trigger only once (at the beginning of the next end-of-combat step). If you remove that trigger from the stack with Sundial, the token will stick around. If the Geist had the second wording, however, then the token would trigger on each end-of-combat step, and try to kill itself.
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Please use card tags in future posts. The Forum Guidelines explain how to do that. -Carsten
So if you end the turn before the end of combat, the delayed triggered ability will go off during your opponent's end of combat step and exile the token, but if you end the turn during your end of combat step with the exile trigger on the stack, the ability will be exiled and you will get to keep your token indefinitely.
Each of these delayed triggers can only exile the token that was created by the same instance of the ability that created the trigger.
This may seem like a very elementary question but exactly when is the end of combat step? Could I hit with the saint and angel then activate the sundial to keep the angel. Or would no damage need to be dealt then activate the sundial to keep the angel?
Double-post merged. -Carsten
The end of combat step is the last step within the combat phase. It occurs right after the "Combat Damage Step." (The combat damage step is the one in which combat damage is dealt).
"Whenever Geist of Saint Traft attacks, put a 4/4 white Angel creature token with flying onto the battlefield tapped and attacking. Exile that token at end of combat."
That reads that the token will be exiled whenever the end of combat comes up. This is because its not exiled at the next end of combat but at all end of combats.
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There are five Steps during the Combat Phase.
The first Step is the "Beginning of Combat Step". Both players get priority before attackers are declared. Once all players have passed priority on an empty stack, the game proceeds to the next Step.
The second Step is the "Declare Attackers Step". The first thing that happens here is that the attackers are declared; this action does not use the stack. Then, both players get priority. Once all players have passed priority on an empty stack, the game proceeds to the next Step.
The third Step is the "Declare Blockers Step". The first thing that happens here is that the blockers are declared; this action does not use the stack. Then, both players get priority. Once all players have passed priority on an empty stack, the game proceeds to the next Step.
The fourth Step is the "Damage Step". If necessary, attackers and blockers are ordered here. Damage is assigned and dealt. Then, both players get priority. Once all players have passed priority on an empty stack, the game proceeds to the next Step.
The fifth Step is the "End of Combat Step". At this point, Geist of Saint Traft's trigger will be placed on the stack. Then, players get priority and now is the appropriate time to use Sundial of the Infinite to "stifle" the Geist trigger. This is much, much after combat damage is dealt.
"Whenever Geist of Saint Traft attacks, put a 4/4 white Angel creature token with flying onto the battlefield tapped and attacking. Exile that token at end of combat."
"Whenever Geist of Saint Traft attacks, put a 4/4 white Angel creature token with flying onto the battlefield tapped and attacking. That token has "exile this token at end of combat.""
The first ability is a delayed trigger, which will trigger only once (at the beginning of the next end-of-combat step). If you remove that trigger from the stack with Sundial, the token will stick around. If the Geist had the second wording, however, then the token would trigger on each end-of-combat step, and try to kill itself.