In that scenario, no you are not winning and losing at the same time. Darksteel Reactor has a state triggered ability which will trigger but SBAs will see you at 0 life and you will lose the game before the triggered ability is even put on the stack.
As for a scenario that applies, I cannot think of one off the top of my head.
Edit: Also in the above scenario you will likely have the game ending in a draw before Wrath of God can be played because of the constantly triggering state trigger of Darksteel Reactor.
There currently is no way to invoke the rule. In order to win and lose simultaneously, you have to have two state based actions that say you win and lose respectively.
There aren't any ways to win magic by a state based action currently. Most "wins" in magic are by proxy. Your opponent has 0 life and loses. When they lose, they leave the game, and then you win as there is no one left in the game but you.
The game rules state, if both players lose simultaneously, the game is a draw.
Most "You win" effects are triggers, so they can't really be simultaneous.
Also your scenario is rather peculiar as with your Abyssal persecutor out and a 20 counter Darksteel Reactor, the game would start an infinite involuntary loop. Thankfully your opponent broke it.
Edit: Also in the above scenario you will likely have the game ending in a draw before Wrath of God can be played because of the constantly triggering state trigger of Darksteel Reactor.
Seriously? Isn't it a state-based trigger? I thought those only triggers once each time priority was checked. Huh.
So is this rule a "just in case" thing, or was there once a way this could happen?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Retrodrome!
Hoi, hoi, u embleer hrair
M'saion ulé hraka vair.
Seriously? Isn't it a state-based trigger? I thought those only triggers once each time priority was checked. Huh.
There is no such thing as a state-based trigger. There are state-based actions which are a set of rules that act as janitors to ensure there is never a 'broken' game. Those are checked just before a player would receive priority.
A trigger is short for Triggered Ability. Triggered abilities are identified as abilities that begin with the words; 'When', 'Whenever' or 'At'.
A State Triggered Ability is a triggered ability that only triggers when a certain game-state is met and there are no other instances of that triggered ability on the stack.
So is this rule a "just in case" thing, or was there once a way this could happen?
Likely this is a 'just in case' rule but there may be a way to make it happen.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"To face death, that's nothing much. But to feel really stupid when you die, well, that would be insufferable." -Nafai, The Ships of Earth
Ever wanted to know what guidelines Judges use to make rulings? Find out at the DCI Document Center.
You can also find the latest Comprehensive Rules here.
A State Triggered Ability is a triggered ability that only triggers when a certain game-state is met and there are no other instances of that triggered ability on the stack.
That's what I meant...I think I was just confusing my terminology. Good to know.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Retrodrome!
Hoi, hoi, u embleer hrair
M'saion ulé hraka vair.
Once upon a time, during a single-elimination round, time ran out. At the end of extra turns, both players had the same life total and an equal number of game wins for the match. There was a tournament rule that added an additional state-based action. It said, "When a player has the highest life total, that player wins the game."
While both players had 1 life, a player with no cards in his library cast Zap, targeting his opponent.
When the spell finished resolving, two state-based actions started fighting about what happened next. One of them said "A player attempted to draw a card from an empty library, so that player loses the game." The other countered with, "A player has the highest life total, so that player wins the game." (The third SBA that said, "What about the player with 0 life who should lose the game?" was ignored, since that was hardly relevant at the time.)
Rule 104.3f walked up and said, "What's going on here? Oh, I see... You can't win and lose simultaneously, that's just crazy. So you lose. I admit this is somewhat awkward, as now this game ends as a draw and you must start a new game with that same silly SBA in effect, where the first person to have a higher life total will win."
The DCI was later regaled by the tale, and they decided that an SBA that caused a player to win the game was just silly. The tournament rule was henceforth altered forever to read, "If a player does not have the highest life total, that player loses the game."
They were so indebted to Rule 104.3f for bringing this to their attention, they kept the rule in the book, just in case they ever did something so strange as to create an SBA that caused a player to win a game again.
So no, there is no way to invoke this rule with the current Comprehensive Rules as they interact with the current Tournament Rules as they interact with all cards printed to date.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Level 3 Judge
This FAQ answers many of the common questions asked in the MTGS Rulings forum. Take a look!
I'm the editor/content manager of the Magic Rules Tips Blog - Bookmark this site for daily tips about game and tournament rules.
"Abstract concepts of perfect judging run headlong into the realities of how people play the game." - Toby Elliott (papa_funk)
Let's say I have a Darksteel Reactor with 20 counters on it, a Platinum Angel, and an Abyssal Persecutor. My opponent casts a Wrath of God. Does this situation trigger 104.3f?
If not, is there any situation at all where you can "win" and "lose" at the same time?
EDIT - oops. Forgot to mention I was also at 0 life.
Hoi, hoi, u embleer hrair
M'saion ulé hraka vair.
Ever wanted to know what guidelines Judges use to make rulings? Find out at the DCI Document Center.
You can also find the latest Comprehensive Rules here.
Currently Playing:
I don't even know right now.
Nothing except for that key piece of info I forgot to insert into that scenario. Sorry. Updated.
Hoi, hoi, u embleer hrair
M'saion ulé hraka vair.
As for a scenario that applies, I cannot think of one off the top of my head.
Edit: Also in the above scenario you will likely have the game ending in a draw before Wrath of God can be played because of the constantly triggering state trigger of Darksteel Reactor.
Ever wanted to know what guidelines Judges use to make rulings? Find out at the DCI Document Center.
You can also find the latest Comprehensive Rules here.
There aren't any ways to win magic by a state based action currently. Most "wins" in magic are by proxy. Your opponent has 0 life and loses. When they lose, they leave the game, and then you win as there is no one left in the game but you.
The game rules state, if both players lose simultaneously, the game is a draw.
Most "You win" effects are triggers, so they can't really be simultaneous.
Also your scenario is rather peculiar as with your Abyssal persecutor out and a 20 counter Darksteel Reactor, the game would start an infinite involuntary loop. Thankfully your opponent broke it.
True, but a player losing and winning simultaneously is not the same as both players losing simultaneously.
Even if the former is an impossible scenario, it's worth distinguishing the two.
Seriously? Isn't it a state-based trigger? I thought those only triggers once each time priority was checked. Huh.
So is this rule a "just in case" thing, or was there once a way this could happen?
Hoi, hoi, u embleer hrair
M'saion ulé hraka vair.
There is no such thing as a state-based trigger. There are state-based actions which are a set of rules that act as janitors to ensure there is never a 'broken' game. Those are checked just before a player would receive priority.
A trigger is short for Triggered Ability. Triggered abilities are identified as abilities that begin with the words; 'When', 'Whenever' or 'At'.
A State Triggered Ability is a triggered ability that only triggers when a certain game-state is met and there are no other instances of that triggered ability on the stack.
Likely this is a 'just in case' rule but there may be a way to make it happen.
Ever wanted to know what guidelines Judges use to make rulings? Find out at the DCI Document Center.
You can also find the latest Comprehensive Rules here.
What about somebody dropping a wrath while both players are at 0 or less life and one player controls a Platinum Angel and an Abyssal Persecuter?EDIT: Draw, duh
Currently Playing:
I don't even know right now.
That's what I meant...I think I was just confusing my terminology. Good to know.
Hoi, hoi, u embleer hrair
M'saion ulé hraka vair.
While both players had 1 life, a player with no cards in his library cast Zap, targeting his opponent.
When the spell finished resolving, two state-based actions started fighting about what happened next. One of them said "A player attempted to draw a card from an empty library, so that player loses the game." The other countered with, "A player has the highest life total, so that player wins the game." (The third SBA that said, "What about the player with 0 life who should lose the game?" was ignored, since that was hardly relevant at the time.)
Rule 104.3f walked up and said, "What's going on here? Oh, I see... You can't win and lose simultaneously, that's just crazy. So you lose. I admit this is somewhat awkward, as now this game ends as a draw and you must start a new game with that same silly SBA in effect, where the first person to have a higher life total will win."
The DCI was later regaled by the tale, and they decided that an SBA that caused a player to win the game was just silly. The tournament rule was henceforth altered forever to read, "If a player does not have the highest life total, that player loses the game."
They were so indebted to Rule 104.3f for bringing this to their attention, they kept the rule in the book, just in case they ever did something so strange as to create an SBA that caused a player to win a game again.
So no, there is no way to invoke this rule with the current Comprehensive Rules as they interact with the current Tournament Rules as they interact with all cards printed to date.
This FAQ answers many of the common questions asked in the MTGS Rulings forum. Take a look!
I'm the editor/content manager of the Magic Rules Tips Blog - Bookmark this site for daily tips about game and tournament rules.
"Abstract concepts of perfect judging run headlong into the realities of how people play the game." - Toby Elliott (papa_funk)
My Type 4 Stack -- DCI Documents -- Comp Rules