Quote:
Originally Posted by burek The biggest difference I've found so far is with cards like Wizenned Cenn.
For example, my opponent attacks with his Borborygmos into my Wizenned Cenn and two Goldmeadow Stalwarts. By the old rules, he can assign 2 to each of my creatures and kill them. By the new rules, it makes the most sense for him to put Cenn as #1 and the Stalwarts as #2 and #3. He can thus assign the Cenn 2 damage, he has to assign 3 damage to Stalwart #2 and only 1 damage remains for Stalwart #3.
Thank you for pointing that out. This is one area where the game becomes more strategic (for the blocker). Personally, I would throw the two Stalwarts out there first and have the Cenn survive, but that just shows how we all have new things to consider in the game.
Personally you as the attacker would assign 3 to each stalwart and 0 to the Cenn? The attacker decides the order. This is a situation where the new rules favor the defender, but the decision remains with the attacker.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
I'm curious of how First Strike would work in the new combat damage system. Will players receive priority between the First Strike combat damage step and regular combat damage step?
Lee Sharpe has publicly confirmed on IRC that there are still two combat damage steps when first strike is involved, and you do still receive priority in first-strike combat damage step.
"Sufficiently advanced experience is indistinguishable from clairvoyance." -Carsten
"Ah those eyes, those horrible creepy eyes!" -Chaosof99
DCI Level 3 Judge & TO "I do not consider myself a hero. I know only what the Vec teach:
justice must always be served and corruption must always be opposed."
Go read! I am one of the three authors of Cranial Insertion.
But seriously, if you can't remember "Woapalanne", just call me Eli.
Lee Sharpe has publicly confirmed on IRC that there are still two combat damage steps when first strike is involved, and you do still receive priority in first-strike combat damage step.
rofl, so thus we have the following scenario.
A Scaled Wurm is lurching toward a player, the only thing between it and a tasty planeswalker snack is a Mogg Fanatic.
Mogg: "Heh, you're too big for my normal explosion, so check out this bad boy: GOBLIN GRENADE! RAAAWR!"
The mogg leaps toward the massive wurm, a rusty knife in one hand and a lit grenade in the other.
The goblin freezes in midair, and looks around, confused.
M10 rules: "Um, yeeeaaah, about that...you see, you can't do that anymore. I'll send you another copy of the memo...see you on Saturday, Peter."
Mogg: "So um, basically, if I stab him with my knife, I'm not allowed to do my normal explosion, OR the grenade explosion, because it's not realistic for me to do a final heroic act with my dying breath...but I DO have time to stab the wurm AND THEN SNUFF OUT THE FUSE ON THIS LIT GRENADE as opposed to, you know, having it sit on my corpse until it explodes?"
M10 rules: "Yeaaahhh, that would be greeeat. Your holy enchanted blade would magically have the power to cause your corpse to not sever the flaming magnesium strip connected to the hunk of metal and gunpowder in your lifeless hand. Be sure to put that in your TPS report."
Sorry if this lapses into good/bad territory, I'm honestly trying to see if this is indeed how it works now, and trying to picture having to explain this to the people I'm teaching to play. What used to be "final act" or "Scotty beamed him up just in time" is going to become..."Dead men tell no tales."
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turbo...my god. you have reached Uber-Nerd-Dom (TM).
A Scaled Wurm is lurching toward a player, the only thing between it and a tasty planeswalker snack is a Mogg Fanatic.
Mogg: "Heh, you're too big for my normal explosion, so check out this bad boy: GOBLIN GRENADE! RAAAWR!"
The mogg leaps toward the massive wurm, a rusty knife in one hand and a lit grenade in the other.
The goblin freezes in midair, and looks around, confused.
M10 rules: "Um, yeeeaaah, about that...you see, you can't do that anymore. I'll send you another copy of the memo...see you on Saturday, Peter."
Mogg: "So um, basically, if I stab him with my knife, I'm not allowed to do my normal explosion, OR the grenade explosion, because it's not realistic for me to do a final heroic act with my dying breath...but I DO have time to stab the wurm AND THEN SNUFF OUT THE FUSE ON THIS LIT GRENADE as opposed to, you know, having it sit on my corpse until it explodes?"
M10 rules: "Yeaaahhh, that would be greeeat. Your holy enchanted blade would magically have the power to cause your corpse to not sever the flaming magnesium strip connected to the hunk of metal and gunpowder in your lifeless hand. Be sure to put that in your TPS report."
Sorry if this lapses into good/bad territory, I'm honestly trying to see if this is indeed how it works now, and trying to picture having to explain this to the people I'm teaching to play. What used to be "final act" or "Scotty beamed him up just in time" is going to become..."Dead men tell no tales."
when posted like that its easy to spin the opposite way too. you could say the wurm is crushing the goblin before it can light the grenade.
And this is why you cannot simply apply flavor to rules in every single scenario with every possible combination of cards. Flavor != rules. Move the discussion away from "I don't get the flavor." Take that over to Magic General or the rumor mill or something.
"Sufficiently advanced experience is indistinguishable from clairvoyance." -Carsten
"Ah those eyes, those horrible creepy eyes!" -Chaosof99
DCI Level 3 Judge & TO "I do not consider myself a hero. I know only what the Vec teach:
justice must always be served and corruption must always be opposed."
Go read! I am one of the three authors of Cranial Insertion.
But seriously, if you can't remember "Woapalanne", just call me Eli.
I'm still confused by multiple blocks. Do you assign the damage to each creature initially? I thought you dealt with the first creature, assigned lethal damage, then went on to each successive creature..
I'm still confused by multiple blocks. Do you assign the damage to each creature initially? I thought you dealt with the first creature, assigned lethal damage, then went on to each successive creature..
norbert88
From what I took from the article, it's the latter.
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I am no longer on MTGS staff, so please don't contact me asking me to do staff things. :|
Relevant clarifications from WotC Eric via the WotC discussion thread here
DEATHTOUCH AND TRAMPLE
Deathtouch + trample does not equal awesome.
If an attacking creature has deathtouch, its combat damage can be assigned among any of the creatures blocking it, divided as its controller chooses, ignoring the new ordering rules.
If an attacking creature has trample, its excess combat damage can be assigned to the defending player (or planeswalker) if all the creatures blocking it have been assigned at least lethal damage.
These two abilities don't overlap in any special way. (In other words, the definition of "lethal damage" hasn't changed, and isn't affected by deathtouch.) If you've got a 3/3 attacker with deathtouch and trample that's been blocked by a 2/2, you must still assign 2 damage to the blocker in order to assign 1 damage to the defending player.
FIRST STRIKE AND DOUBLE STRIKE
First Strike and Double Strike can and often will result in two combat damage steps. In the first, First Strike damage will be assigned and resolve. There is a chance to cast spells and activate abilities before taking care of regular combat damage. You then take care of regular combat damage and have another chance to cast spells and activate abilities.
BANDING
An announcement will come out at a later date addressing the changes to Banding in regards to the rules changes.
Edit, changed the "Deathtouch and Trample" response based on new clarifications
For example, my opponent attacks with his Borborygmos into my Wizenned Cenn and two Goldmeadow Stalwarts. By the old rules, he can assign 2 to each of my creatures and kill them. By the new rules, it makes the most sense for him to put Cenn as #1 and the Stalwarts as #2 and #3. He can thus assign the Cenn 2 damage, he has to assign 3 damage to Stalwart #2 and only 1 damage remains for Stalwart #3.
You would actually do 2 to the Cenn, killing it, and then only have to do 2 to each of the Stalwarts?
No. You assign lethal damage to each creature, but you have to assign all the damage before any of that damage is dealt. You don't get to ignore the bonus from Cenn until it's out of play.
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I am no longer on MTGS staff, so please don't contact me asking me to do staff things. :|
You would actually do 2 to the Cenn, killing it, and then only have to do 2 to each of the Stalwarts?
Although you sequentially go through the blockers in order for assigning damage, it gets all applied at once. From the end of the article for the combat section.
...I assign 2 damage to the Lions, even though that's more than enough to destroy it. The blockers that are still in combat assign a total of 8 damage to the Behemoth, then all damage is dealt. Standing Troops, Suntail Hawk, and Savannah Lions are destroyed.
A token is owned by the player who first controlled it.
... simple enough fact to rewrite. It's no longer about the spell that makes it, but a property in the token that comes about at the same moment as the token itself.
So Brand now brings tokens back under my control only if I was their original controller? (read: only if someone stole them from me in the first place )
Primary and only casual rule: "any rule that is fine for the most part of the playgroup, is a fine rule". So any further thread with: "if somebody uses/does .... in a casual game, is it ethical/ok?", read the answer above.
- Being a "Johnny/Spike" means you like self-torture. You win often in casual, so everybody hates you; you loose often in competitive, so you hate yourself.
Pretty much. You're no longer the owner of those tokens.
So Brand now brings tokens back under my control only if I was their original controller? (read: only if someone stole them from me in the first place )
Looks that way.
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Relevant clarifications from WotC Eric via the WotC discussion thread here
Edit, changed the Deathtouch and Trample response based on new clarifications
You had me excited for a moment there - that original explanation matched my suggestion here.
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Could you explain how the damage is dealt if i attack with my Ball Lightning and get blocked by several creatures?How trample interact with these changes?If the Ball gets to the first creature in blocking line, does it die and assign it's further damage to another creature?Thanks in advance.
No, it doesn't die. It assigns all of it's damage to the creatures, in order, and they assign damage to the Ball Lightning. Then it all gets dealt at once.
So if he's blocked by two 2/2 creatures, he can still kill both of them and trample 2 points of damage over.
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If God spoke to you, and commanded you to kill your own children, would you do it?
If your answer is "No," then your morality does not come from God's commandments.
If your answer is "Yes," then please, please reconsider.
So here's a question that I'm unsure on. Let's say I have a creature with a pump ability. Putrid Leech is a good example. I know that If my opponent has a Grizzly Bears and declares it as the blocker. I can pump the leech to a 4/4 before damage thus killing the bear and keeping my leech alive. But what about a "no blocker" scenario? Can my opponent declare "no blockers" during the "Declare Blockers" step and before damage is dealt pump my Leech to a 4/4? For instance
Player {A} declares Ptrid leech as the attacker.
Player {B} has no creatures and thus delcares no blockers.
Player {A} pumps the leech to a 4/4 and hits the opponent for 4.
Is that scenario right? Or is the Leech not able to be pumped since there are no blockers and thus only deals 2 damage?
So here's a question that I'm unsure on. Let's say I have a creature with a pump ability. Putrid Leech is a good example. I know that If my opponent has a Grizzly Bears and declares it as the blocker. I can pump the leech to a 4/4 before damage thus killing the bear and keeping my leech alive. But what about a "no blocker" scenario? Can my opponent declare "no blockers" during the "Declare Blockers" step and before damage is dealt pump my Leech to a 4/4? For instance
Player {A} declares Ptrid leech as the attacker.
Player {B} has no creatures and thus delcares no blockers.
Player {A} pumps the leech to a 4/4 and hits the opponent for 4.
Is that scenario right? Or is the Leech not able to be pumped since there are no blockers and thus only deals 2 damage?
Yes, that i still valid, since you will still receive priority in the declare blockers step
How does first strike and double strike work in the new combat rules?
You can see the official word on the subject here. To quote:
FIRST STRIKE AND DOUBLE STRIKE
First Strike and Double Strike can and often will result in two combat damage steps. In the first, First Strike damage will be assigned and resolve. There is a chance to cast spells and activate abilities before taking care of regular combat damage. You then take care of regular combat damage and have another chance to cast spells and activate abilities.
You would actually do 2 to the Cenn, killing it, and then only have to do 2 to each of the Stalwarts?
norbert88
No, because the damage, like trample damage, is only evaluated at the time that it's dealt. The Cenn is still in play when the damage is assigned, meaning that you have to assign full lethal damage to the others.
For regeneration, you have to regenerate it before damage is dealt? My guess is after the order of blockers is decleared.
I think that's right. The order of blockers is decided by the attacking player once the blockers are assigned. Then each player will get priority once before combat damage step. You can use regeneration ability at this point, if you think it's necessary.
That is correct - both players receive priority after blockers are declared, before combat damage is assigned. Once both players pass priority though, that's it. Combat damage is assigned, dealt, and nothing else can be added in that step at all. This deals with the incogruities of certain creatures (i.e. Mogg Fanatic being able to be at 2 places at once by dealing combat damage and sacking it to zap something else simultaneously).
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Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Personally you as the attacker would assign 3 to each stalwart and 0 to the Cenn? The attacker decides the order. This is a situation where the new rules favor the defender, but the decision remains with the attacker.
Lee Sharpe has publicly confirmed on IRC that there are still two combat damage steps when first strike is involved, and you do still receive priority in first-strike combat damage step.
"Sufficiently advanced experience is indistinguishable from clairvoyance." -Carsten
"Ah those eyes, those horrible creepy eyes!" -Chaosof99
DCI Level 3 Judge & TO
"I do not consider myself a hero. I know only what the Vec teach:
justice must always be served and corruption must always be opposed."
Go read! I am one of the three authors of Cranial Insertion.
But seriously, if you can't remember "Woapalanne", just call me Eli.
rofl, so thus we have the following scenario.
A Scaled Wurm is lurching toward a player, the only thing between it and a tasty planeswalker snack is a Mogg Fanatic.
Mogg: "Heh, you're too big for my normal explosion, so check out this bad boy: GOBLIN GRENADE! RAAAWR!"
The mogg leaps toward the massive wurm, a rusty knife in one hand and a lit grenade in the other.
The goblin freezes in midair, and looks around, confused.
M10 rules: "Um, yeeeaaah, about that...you see, you can't do that anymore. I'll send you another copy of the memo...see you on Saturday, Peter."
Mogg: "So um, basically, if I stab him with my knife, I'm not allowed to do my normal explosion, OR the grenade explosion, because it's not realistic for me to do a final heroic act with my dying breath...but I DO have time to stab the wurm AND THEN SNUFF OUT THE FUSE ON THIS LIT GRENADE as opposed to, you know, having it sit on my corpse until it explodes?"
M10 rules: "Yeaaaahhh..."
Mogg: "What if you Guided Strike me?"
M10 rules: "Yeaaahhh, that would be greeeat. Your holy enchanted blade would magically have the power to cause your corpse to not sever the flaming magnesium strip connected to the hunk of metal and gunpowder in your lifeless hand. Be sure to put that in your TPS report."
Mogg: "...I'm getting too old for this ****."
The same applies to Shock Troops (if they whack someone with their barrel, it doesn't explode unless they're carrying a Fyndhorn Bow), Bloodfire Colossus (doesn't bleed lava unless he's riding a Noble Steeds), etc.
Sorry if this lapses into good/bad territory, I'm honestly trying to see if this is indeed how it works now, and trying to picture having to explain this to the people I'm teaching to play. What used to be "final act" or "Scotty beamed him up just in time" is going to become..."Dead men tell no tales."
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
when posted like that its easy to spin the opposite way too. you could say the wurm is crushing the goblin before it can light the grenade.
"Sufficiently advanced experience is indistinguishable from clairvoyance." -Carsten
"Ah those eyes, those horrible creepy eyes!" -Chaosof99
DCI Level 3 Judge & TO
"I do not consider myself a hero. I know only what the Vec teach:
justice must always be served and corruption must always be opposed."
Go read! I am one of the three authors of Cranial Insertion.
But seriously, if you can't remember "Woapalanne", just call me Eli.
tbh we reversed back ruleswise too Tempest time
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norbert88
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From what I took from the article, it's the latter.
Edit, changed the "Deathtouch and Trample" response based on new clarifications
So in the following situation:
You would actually do 2 to the Cenn, killing it, and then only have to do 2 to each of the Stalwarts?
norbert88
Official EDH Forums
Member of Team Revolution
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Although you sequentially go through the blockers in order for assigning damage, it gets all applied at once. From the end of the article for the combat section.
Bolded for clarity.
So this means that my Hunted creatures/Varchild's War-Riders + Brand deck is totally ruined?
...
So Brand now brings tokens back under my control only if I was their original controller? (read: only if someone stole them from me in the first place )
Pretty much. You're no longer the owner of those tokens.
Looks that way.
You had me excited for a moment there - that original explanation matched my suggestion here.
No, it doesn't die. It assigns all of it's damage to the creatures, in order, and they assign damage to the Ball Lightning. Then it all gets dealt at once.
So if he's blocked by two 2/2 creatures, he can still kill both of them and trample 2 points of damage over.
If your answer is "No," then your morality does not come from God's commandments.
If your answer is "Yes," then please, please reconsider.
Player {A} declares Ptrid leech as the attacker.
Player {B} has no creatures and thus delcares no blockers.
Player {A} pumps the leech to a 4/4 and hits the opponent for 4.
Is that scenario right? Or is the Leech not able to be pumped since there are no blockers and thus only deals 2 damage?
Yes, that i still valid, since you will still receive priority in the declare blockers step
DCI Level 2 Judge
You can see the official word on the subject here. To quote:
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B
I think that's right. The order of blockers is decided by the attacking player once the blockers are assigned. Then each player will get priority once before combat damage step. You can use regeneration ability at this point, if you think it's necessary.
Regional Judge Coordinator, Midwest Region
Senior Manager of Operations at Pastimes, Inc.
pastimes.net