[*** Note: Now with helpful combat phase guide! *** ]
Edit: Since some people are having trouble with this, I'll say it again up here. Ask rules questions, ask for clarification, note rules quirks that closed or opened, but do not go on about good/bad, cards made better/worse, decks created/killed. There are lots of places to discuss that. This is for academic and educational discussion of the changes, not a place to praise or damn the changes.
Do not post whether or not you like the changes. Do not reply to posts about whether or not someone likes the changes. Report such posts and move on. This thread is only to discuss the rules - there are plenty of other places to discuss how you feel about them, and believe me, I know that you all have a lot of opinion to discuss. Just not here. The changes are going to happen, and this is a place to make sure that you are clear on what the changes mean for answering rules questions.
And, since it's causing the most confusion and misinformation, the combat phase!
1) Beginning of Combat Step
-- Players receive priority
( Last chance to tap potential attackers before combat)
2) Declare Attackers Step
-- Attacking player chooses which creatures attack and whether each attacks the defending player or a planeswalker
-- Players receive priority
(Last chance to tap potential blockers)
3) Declare Blockers Step
-- Defending player chooses which creatures block and which creature they block
-- For each blocked creature he controls blocked by more than one creature, attacking player orders the blocking creatures
-- For each blocking creature blocking more than one creature, defending player orders the blocked creatures
-- Players receive priority
(Last chance to pump, bounce, protect, or regenerate creatures before damage)
4) Combat Damage Step
-- If first or double strike is involved, only they assign damage now. Repeat this step *after* priority passes for double-strikers and other creatures
-- Attacking player assigns combat damage; must assign lethal damage to a creature to assign past it in the chosen order
-- Defending player assigns combat damage; must assign lethal damage to a creature to assign past it in the chosen order
-- Deathtouch can ignore the order and assign damage freely. Lethal damage must still be assigned to trample to defending player, however
-- Damage is all dealt at once
-- Players receive priority
5) End of Combat Step
-- Players receive priority
-- Then end the combat phase and creatures stop being attacking/blocking
"Sufficiently advanced experience is indistinguishable from clairvoyance." -Carsten
"Ah those eyes, those horrible creepy eyes!" -Chaosof99
DCI Level 3 Judge & TO "I do not consider myself a hero. I know only what the Vec teach:
justice must always be served and corruption must always be opposed."
Go read! I am one of the three authors of Cranial Insertion.
But seriously, if you can't remember "Woapalanne", just call me Eli.
ok, so im a bit confused at one part. if a creature is blocking alone, and then it dissapears off the chain before damage is dealt, will the damage go to the player or just not be assigned? >_<
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Even if the author is silenced, the performance is stopped, the story will not end.
Whether it's a comedy or a tragedy, if there is cheering, the story will continue on.
Just like the many lives.
For the us who are still in it and still in the journey, send warm blessings.
- We will continue to walk down this path until eternity.
ok, so im a bit confused at one part. if a creature is blocking alone, and then it dissapears off the chain before damage is dealt, will the damage go to the player or just not be assigned? >_<
I assume the creature would still need trample for damage to go through, so damage just shouldn't be assigned. I didn't notice anything mentioning a change in that functionality.
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A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
So let me get this straight about deathtouch vs regular damage.
Deathtouch enables you to choose how you deal damage to creatures. like being double-blocked and dealing 1 damage to each creature but regular damage you have to eliminate the first blocker to get to the next?
I just have one quick question that i didnt understand clearly. Is there time to play spells after declare blockers step? Cause that isnt the way it sounded and if there isnt that time then all pumps and regneration would have to come before blockers are even declared
I just have one quick question that i didnt understand clearly. Is there time to play spells after declare blockers step? Cause that isnt the way it sounded and if there isnt that time then all pumps and regneration would have to come before blockers are even declared
you choose what your going to block with who at the beginning of the step, then you get priority to make your decisions
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Even if the author is silenced, the performance is stopped, the story will not end.
Whether it's a comedy or a tragedy, if there is cheering, the story will continue on.
Just like the many lives.
For the us who are still in it and still in the journey, send warm blessings.
- We will continue to walk down this path until eternity.
Alright, Woapalanne. I hope I get what you mean by 'discuss'.
*~*~*~
Note: There is an indented part of this post where I take a stab at explaining how blocking and damage-dealing works.
2A.
"on the battlefield" <--> in play
"enter the battlefield" <--> come into play
Will there be another such term? And if so, what are the ambiguities we will acquire with them? Just for instance, straight fromm Gottlieb:
Quote from Gottlieb »
"When this creature enters the battlefield" is the equivalent of "When this creature comes into play." This kind of ability triggers when the creature it's on hits the table, not when it enters combat."
He's already anticipating a new confusion. Prepare to have this question take the place of play vs. put, I guess.
The term 'enter' also incites one to ask if it is reserved for the battlefield. Do objects come into all other zones, but enter the battlefield?
2B.
Quote from Forsythe »
Activated abilities are also no longer "played" but rather "activated."
An expected change. This presents, then, a total separation of all of what was formerly known as playing. There is casting, there is activating.
One who knows the ins and outs of rules might wonder how the handling of triggered abilities will be described. Presently it is "to stack it, treat it like you're playing the ability, except technically it's not being played."
What of lands?
Gottlieb clears that up:
Quote from Gottlieb »
"In the new world, you'll play lands, cast spells, activate abilities, and play cards that might be lands or spells (as with Mind's Desire)."
Which is to say that, yes, Mind's Desire will say 'play', and, if I understand this correctly, Null Profusion will still say 'play'.
2C.
Exile. Totally grokkable change. Also, big note: "However, the acknowledgment that this zone is, in fact, fully within the game does bring about functional changes to the six Wishes,"
Exiled cards are not outside the game.
2D.
The end of turn step becomes the step named end step. Also, the trigger condition of "the time of the end step" is being stripped of its former special treatment, to being called "the beginning of [end step]". We talk of "the beginning of [declare attackers]", the beginning of your upkeep, and the beginning of the draw step. Indeed, I believe the only step to receive special treatment now would be end of combat.
Presently, the phase of that step is called End. So theoretically, there will be an End phase, with an end step.
3.
Mana burn is eliminated and nothing gets errata.
Mana pools empty at the end of steps and 'Upwelling'-esque cards will get errata, just to continue to mean "this mana doesn't empty" in the same sense. That is, references to 'phases' when simply to mean "but still as the turn ends" will get errata, but to preserve functionality. Nothing else gets errata. Braid of Fire is being left as-is.
As a consequence, Braid of Fire does not burn, but it must be used in the upkeep.
4.
A token is owned by the player who first controlled it.
... simple enough fact to rewrite. It's no longer about the spell that makes it, but a property in the token that comes about at the same moment as the token itself.
5.
Combat damage no longer uses the stack.
Here we go. And, to go along with that, blockers have an 'order'.
In short, everyone has to learn combat again. But, it is only relevant when there is gang blocking, which, yes, is rather rare, on any table.
Players will need to learn how to handle their responses to combat, but the combat itself, I can see, won't much change.
The ordering amounts to this: The attacking player reveals some, but not all, of the information about how he will assign his combat damage (by cutting himself off from certain assignment possibilities). Players play spells and abilities cast spells and activate abilities. The damage is then dealt in a fashion of the attacking player's choosing from among a set of legal possibilities. We don't know how the presence Really Valiant creatures will affect the exchange between players, so assume there are none.
To define this set of possibilities, one considers the attacking player to be assigning damage. He defines an assignment of values, N1 - Nj, where j is the number of blocking creatures, to the blocking creatures, such that (i) the sum of all the N1 - Nj equals the power of the attacking blocked creature, and (ii) For any i > 1, the ith creature has nonzero damage assigned to it only if the (i-1)st has been 'lethally assigned damage' (just a label, not the official term).
To be 'lethally assigned damage' is to have a creature's toughness be not strictly greater than the damage on the creature + damage assigned to that creature.
6.
Deathtouch is totally different. It now alters the rules for damage assignment, and is a component of a state-based effect which combines Mill-death with lethal damage.
EDIT: That is, to have been dealt damage by a deathtoucher, is now a cause of destruction, for creatures; just as to have tried unsuccessfully to draw from a library, is a cause of game loss, for players.
7.
Lifelink alters how damage is dealt.what it means for some sources to deal damage.
Lifelinks are not cumulative.
Genju of the Fields, however, was printed without lifelink, so it will keep the ability it was printed with. And continue to be 'cumulative' unlike the other four.
Basically, there is no combat damage step anymore. All the other steps in combat are there.
Attacker declares creatures to attack
End declare attackers step (play instants, abilities)
Declare blockers step (this is where the changes come in with regards to double/triple etc blocking.)
End declare blockers step (play instants, abilities)
Then damage is done. No stack anymore! Whee!
W may only be paid with white mana. U may only be paid with blue mana. B may only be paid with black mana. R may only be paid with red mana. G may only be paid with green mana. C may only be paid with colorless mana. 1 may be paid with white, blue, black, red, green, or clolorless mana.
Wow. Damage not using the stack is going to take some getting used to. I imagine that plenty of people will make some bad blocks in the new few sets following this.
I have to admit though, this does make intuitive sense. Doesn't mean I have to like it though. ( Sad to see the fanatic get hated. He's one of my favourite men!)
See, this is exactly what I meant about not discussing opinion. Discuss that elsewhere, let this be one clean place to discuss the changes academically. :/ -Woap
Let's look at an example. I attack Aaron with [card]Moonglove Winnower[/card], and he blocks with Horned Turtle, Wizened Snitches, and Drudge Skeletons. I order them like that. Now, during the declare blockers step, Aaron has to decide whether or not to activate Drudge Skeletons's regeneration ability. He doesn't know whether I'll assign damage to them, but he knows that I could. Let's say he doesn't. When the combat damage step starts, I can divide Moonglove Winnower's damage however I want among the blockers. Let's say I have the Winnower assign 1 damage to the Snitches and 1 damage to the Skeletons. As soon as combat damage is dealt, Wizened Snitches, Drudge Skeletons, and Moonglove Winnower are all put into the graveyard at the same time.
Now that player can't regenerate his Drudge Skeletons? So I HAVE to put a regen shield on it before damage now? That kinda nerfs regen, no? How does this affect creatures like Mossbridge Troll?
"My mission is to proactively develop globally applicable expertise in order to build a sustainable results-oriented evil enterprise" -CixrTyx, Leader of Very Fun Games Inc.
Als ich chan
Cogito Ergo Sum
Sapere Aude
I'm wondering how banding works with the new combat ordering. I would assume that the player with the band chooses the combat ordering (regardless of attacking or blocking) and then chooses damage assignment regardless of order (a la the new deathtouch rules). Actually this would seem to be easier to understand banding and might be enough for a return to the current game. Granted, there would be some band versus band rulings, but I'm not even sure how it works now anyway. If banding got a little explanation with the new rules, I would be quite happy.
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"You are what you pretend to be, so you must be careful what you pretend to be" from Mother Night
"Sufficiently advanced experience is indistinguishable from clairvoyance." -Carsten
"Ah those eyes, those horrible creepy eyes!" -Chaosof99
DCI Level 3 Judge & TO "I do not consider myself a hero. I know only what the Vec teach:
justice must always be served and corruption must always be opposed."
Go read! I am one of the three authors of Cranial Insertion.
But seriously, if you can't remember "Woapalanne", just call me Eli.
First of all: I want to make clear, that the combat damage step is confirmed for the new rules (Gottlieb says "during the combat damage step").
We may also trust there is still an end of combat step, since that would have required a conceptual reorganization, much deeper than the cosmetic "beginning of the end step".
The combat damage step after damage is dealt is still relevant, since it is "a time after damage is dealt before the 'end of combat' event occurs." And presently there's no reason to believe Combat Damage immediately ends after dealing damage. Indeed, damage is now at least a special part of beginning that step, like drawing a card on the draw step. The draw step has no stated plans for termination (despite murmurings it might be eaten by the upkeep step that I recall from a couple years ago...).
The one example right from wizards page is:
Now that player can't regenerate his Drudge Skeletons? So I HAVE to put a regen shield on it before damage now? That kinda nerfs regen, no?
Again, this only matters if you block with two guys on 1, AND, such that the attacking creature can't just assign lethal damage to both. (Or, mutatis mutandis, blocking with three or more creatures.)
This matters only when you would block with Drudge Skeletons and another creature but such that they can't both die.... or if you have prevention or something such that he can assign "lethal" to everyone, but he might not (say, pile on 3 more damage to something, to beat a quantitative prevention effect you used).
Going in, you know your blockers have an 'order'. If you want your guy to live, you use regeneration. By being given an order, though, you know what the opponent has to do with his damage in order to assign some nonzero amount of damage to your Skeletons (specifically, you know he has to lethally assign damage to the creatures before the Drudges in the order).
Also, being the nonactive player, you will have last say, and thus, final knowledge of all existing effects.
If he orders Skeleton first, you know you have to regen (if you care about it). If he orders it last, you know you don't (we're still assuming the creature's power isn't large enough, btw).
It's only if your Skeletons are in combat, and the opponent has at least two ways he might assign damage to the creatures before the Drudges in the ordering, that you don't know everything relevant. But without effects, he's just going to assign lethal and no more to everything before Drudges... so it only matters if you used prevention.. *AND* the sort of prevention that doesn't prevent everything; which I called quantitative prevention. Then the ambiguity facing you, is that the opponent has yet to choose whether he'll try to kill that creature (piling enough damage on to beat the prevention, and deal lethal), or if he'll go around it to the regenerator (assigning technically but not effectively lethal to the preceding one).
Think of the fact of your guys being ordered as the "assigning" that you respond to. Like I said in the other post, he hasn't told you everything about how damage will be dealt... but he's told you something. Quite a lot, I think.
With this new change, there's a little information kept from everyone, at all times... whereas before, when damage is on the stack, the only game is who will add something to the stack, and before damage is on the stack, players know nothing.
And finally... this doesn't affect Mossbridge Troll at all. Its ability still means exactly what it says.
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How does first strike work now? Do they still do damage first regardless of how the attacking player orders the blockers?
i.e. If I attack with my Vizzerdrix (lol) into a Rhox Brute and a Knight of Meadowgrain, and I order Rhox Brute before the Knight, do I trade still with the Brute?
First of all: I want to make clear, that the combat damage step is confirmed for the new rules (Gottlieb says "during the combat damage step").
We may also trust there is still an end of combat step, since that would have required a conceptual reorganization, much deeper than the cosmetic "beginning of the end step".
The combat damage step after damage is dealt is still relevant, since it is "a time after damage is dealt before the 'end of combat' event occurs." And presently there's no reason to believe Combat Damage immediately ends after dealing damage. Indeed, damage is now at least a special part of beginning that step, like drawing a card on the draw step. The draw step has no stated plans for termination (despite murmurings it might be eaten by the upkeep step that I recall from a couple years ago...).
Again, this only matters if you block with two guys on 1, AND, such that the attacking creature can't just assign lethal damage to both. (Or, mutatis mutandis, blocking with three or more creatures.)
This matters only when you would block with Drudge Skeletons and another creature but such that they can't both die.... or if you have prevention or something such that he can assign "lethal" to everyone, but he might not (say, pile on 3 more damage to something, to beat a quantitative prevention effect you used).
Going in, you know your blockers have an 'order'. If you want your guy to live, you use regeneration. By being given an order, though, you know what the opponent has to do with his damage in order to assign some nonzero amount of damage to your Skeletons (specifically, you know he has to lethally assign damage to the creatures before the Drudges in the order).
Also, being the nonactive player, you will have last say, and thus, final knowledge of all existing effects.
If he orders Skeleton first, you know you have to regen (if you care about it). If he orders it last, you know you don't (we're still assuming the creature's power isn't large enough, btw).
It's only if your Skeletons are in combat, and the opponent has at least two ways he might assign damage to the creatures before the Drudges in the ordering, that you don't know everything relevant. But without effects, he's just going to assign lethal and no more to everything before Drudges... so it only matters if you used prevention.. *AND* the sort of prevention that doesn't prevent everything; which I called quantitative prevention. Then the ambiguity facing you, is that the opponent has yet to choose whether he'll try to kill that creature (piling enough damage on to beat the prevention, and deal lethal), or if he'll go around it to the regenerator (assigning technically but not effectively lethal to the preceding one).
Think of the fact of your guys being ordered as the "assigning" that you respond to. Like I said in the other post, he hasn't told you everything about how damage will be dealt... but he's told you something. Quite a lot, I think.
With this new change, there's a little information kept from everyone, at all times... whereas before, when damage is on the stack, the only game is who will add something to the stack, and before damage is on the stack, players know nothing.
And finally... this doesn't affect Mossbridge Troll at all. Its ability still means exactly what it says.
So it always has to have a regen shield if you want it to live from lethal before damage step, even if it's one blocker. Your right about how it allows everybody to see what's on the table and allows each player to see the possible next move. Does make it more concise IMO. I understand now.
But the example was about Deathtouch btw. You were talking about order, when new deathtouch doesn't follow order. I still understand everything now, I just read the rules like three more times to understand it better.
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"My mission is to proactively develop globally applicable expertise in order to build a sustainable results-oriented evil enterprise" -CixrTyx, Leader of Very Fun Games Inc.
Als ich chan
Cogito Ergo Sum
Sapere Aude
Regarding Combat Damage no longer using the Stack...
Unless I'm reading it right say you block a creature with a sack ability like Sakura-Tribe Elder, you can't block and sacrifice the Elder in response to go get a basic land to put into play tapped cause you'd have to choose one or the other:
The effect to get a basic land while taking damage or block with it being a 1/1 creature and don't take any combat damage at all unless the attacking creature the Elder is blocking has Trample.
As for Dauntless Escort I'm assuming you also can't block and sacrifice it for it's Activated Ability to make all your creatures Indestructible either...
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America Bless Christ Jesus
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
So, I'm very confused about combat... can I swing for example with a 2/2, and after he declares there to be no blockers activate Double Cleave to do 4 damage, or would I have to activate Double Cleave before he declared there to be no blockers?
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Yes. That interaction does not change (you still have to play the Cleave during the declare blockers step at the latest to get the extra combat damage step).
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DCI Level 2 Judge
Scientists have calculated that the chance of anything so patently absurd actually existing are millions to one. But magicians have calculated that million-to-one chances crop up nine times out of ten.
Yes. That interaction does not change (you still have to play the Cleave during the declare blockers step at the latest to get the extra combat damage step).
Sorry for sounding silly, but I don't understand what you are saying yes to?
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Temporarily retired from the game
Thanks a bunch to Rivenor from Miraculous Recovery Signatures for the awesome sigpic!
Regarding Combat Damage no longer using the Stack...
Unless I'm reading it right say you block a creature with a sack ability like Sakura-Tribe Elder, you can't block and sacrifice the Elder in response to go get a basic land to put into play tapped cause you'd have to choose one or the other:
The effect to get a basic land while taking damage or block with it being a 1/1 creature and don't take any combat damage at all unless the attacking creature the Elder is blocking has Trample.
As for Dauntless Escort I'm assuming you also can't block and sacrifice it for it's Activated Ability to make all your creatures Indestructible either...
The way I'm reading it - you can block and sac with either. You just can't block, use their ability which causes them to leave play, AND deal the damage.
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The way I'm reading it - you can block and sac with either. You just can't block, use their ability which causes them to leave play, AND deal the damage.
Bingo. You get damage or ability, not both, but you get ka-blockings either way.
"Sufficiently advanced experience is indistinguishable from clairvoyance." -Carsten
"Ah those eyes, those horrible creepy eyes!" -Chaosof99
DCI Level 3 Judge & TO "I do not consider myself a hero. I know only what the Vec teach:
justice must always be served and corruption must always be opposed."
Go read! I am one of the three authors of Cranial Insertion.
But seriously, if you can't remember "Woapalanne", just call me Eli.
The way I'm reading it - you can block and sac with either. You just can't block, use their ability which causes them to leave play, AND deal the damage.
I'm not dealing damage with Sakura-Tribe Elder, I'm blocking and sacrificing it to go get a basic land after damage has been dealt from my Opponent during the Combat Phase.
Would that still be legal?
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America Bless Christ Jesus
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
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Edit: Since some people are having trouble with this, I'll say it again up here. Ask rules questions, ask for clarification, note rules quirks that closed or opened, but do not go on about good/bad, cards made better/worse, decks created/killed. There are lots of places to discuss that. This is for academic and educational discussion of the changes, not a place to praise or damn the changes.
This thread is to discuss the sweeping changes coming with M10.
Do not post whether or not you like the changes. Do not reply to posts about whether or not someone likes the changes. Report such posts and move on. This thread is only to discuss the rules - there are plenty of other places to discuss how you feel about them, and believe me, I know that you all have a lot of opinion to discuss. Just not here. The changes are going to happen, and this is a place to make sure that you are clear on what the changes mean for answering rules questions.
And, since it's causing the most confusion and misinformation, the combat phase!
1) Beginning of Combat Step
-- Players receive priority
( Last chance to tap potential attackers before combat)
2) Declare Attackers Step
-- Attacking player chooses which creatures attack and whether each attacks the defending player or a planeswalker
-- Players receive priority
(Last chance to tap potential blockers)
3) Declare Blockers Step
-- Defending player chooses which creatures block and which creature they block
-- For each blocked creature he controls blocked by more than one creature, attacking player orders the blocking creatures
-- For each blocking creature blocking more than one creature, defending player orders the blocked creatures
-- Players receive priority
(Last chance to pump, bounce, protect, or regenerate creatures before damage)
4) Combat Damage Step
-- If first or double strike is involved, only they assign damage now. Repeat this step *after* priority passes for double-strikers and other creatures
-- Attacking player assigns combat damage; must assign lethal damage to a creature to assign past it in the chosen order
-- Defending player assigns combat damage; must assign lethal damage to a creature to assign past it in the chosen order
-- Deathtouch can ignore the order and assign damage freely. Lethal damage must still be assigned to trample to defending player, however
-- Damage is all dealt at once
-- Players receive priority
5) End of Combat Step
-- Players receive priority
-- Then end the combat phase and creatures stop being attacking/blocking
"Sufficiently advanced experience is indistinguishable from clairvoyance." -Carsten
"Ah those eyes, those horrible creepy eyes!" -Chaosof99
DCI Level 3 Judge & TO
"I do not consider myself a hero. I know only what the Vec teach:
justice must always be served and corruption must always be opposed."
Go read! I am one of the three authors of Cranial Insertion.
But seriously, if you can't remember "Woapalanne", just call me Eli.
Whether it's a comedy or a tragedy, if there is cheering, the story will continue on.
Just like the many lives.
For the us who are still in it and still in the journey, send warm blessings.
- We will continue to walk down this path until eternity.
I assume the creature would still need trample for damage to go through, so damage just shouldn't be assigned. I didn't notice anything mentioning a change in that functionality.
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
Deathtouch enables you to choose how you deal damage to creatures. like being double-blocked and dealing 1 damage to each creature but regular damage you have to eliminate the first blocker to get to the next?
you choose what your going to block with who at the beginning of the step, then you get priority to make your decisions
Whether it's a comedy or a tragedy, if there is cheering, the story will continue on.
Just like the many lives.
For the us who are still in it and still in the journey, send warm blessings.
- We will continue to walk down this path until eternity.
*~*~*~
Note: There is an indented part of this post where I take a stab at explaining how blocking and damage-dealing works.
2A.
"on the battlefield" <--> in play
"enter the battlefield" <--> come into play
Will there be another such term? And if so, what are the ambiguities we will acquire with them? Just for instance, straight fromm Gottlieb:
He's already anticipating a new confusion. Prepare to have this question take the place of play vs. put, I guess.
The term 'enter' also incites one to ask if it is reserved for the battlefield. Do objects come into all other zones, but enter the battlefield?
2B.
An expected change. This presents, then, a total separation of all of what was formerly known as playing. There is casting, there is activating.
One who knows the ins and outs of rules might wonder how the handling of triggered abilities will be described. Presently it is "to stack it, treat it like you're playing the ability, except technically it's not being played."
What of lands?
Gottlieb clears that up:
Which is to say that, yes, Mind's Desire will say 'play', and, if I understand this correctly, Null Profusion will still say 'play'.
2C.
Exile. Totally grokkable change. Also, big note: "However, the acknowledgment that this zone is, in fact, fully within the game does bring about functional changes to the six Wishes,"
Exiled cards are not outside the game.
2D.
The end of turn step becomes the step named end step. Also, the trigger condition of "the time of the end step" is being stripped of its former special treatment, to being called "the beginning of [end step]". We talk of "the beginning of [declare attackers]", the beginning of your upkeep, and the beginning of the draw step. Indeed, I believe the only step to receive special treatment now would be end of combat.
Presently, the phase of that step is called End. So theoretically, there will be an End phase, with an end step.
3.
Mana burn is eliminated and nothing gets errata.
Mana pools empty at the end of steps and 'Upwelling'-esque cards will get errata, just to continue to mean "this mana doesn't empty" in the same sense. That is, references to 'phases' when simply to mean "but still as the turn ends" will get errata, but to preserve functionality. Nothing else gets errata. Braid of Fire is being left as-is.
As a consequence, Braid of Fire does not burn, but it must be used in the upkeep.
4.
A token is owned by the player who first controlled it.
... simple enough fact to rewrite. It's no longer about the spell that makes it, but a property in the token that comes about at the same moment as the token itself.
5.
Combat damage no longer uses the stack.
Here we go. And, to go along with that, blockers have an 'order'.
In short, everyone has to learn combat again. But, it is only relevant when there is gang blocking, which, yes, is rather rare, on any table.
Players will need to learn how to handle their responses to combat, but the combat itself, I can see, won't much change.
6.
Deathtouch is totally different. It now alters the rules for damage assignment, and is a component of a state-based effect which combines Mill-death with lethal damage.
EDIT: That is, to have been dealt damage by a deathtoucher, is now a cause of destruction, for creatures; just as to have tried unsuccessfully to draw from a library, is a cause of game loss, for players.
7.
Lifelink alters
how damage is dealt.what it means for some sources to deal damage.Lifelinks are not cumulative.
Genju of the Fields, however, was printed without lifelink, so it will keep the ability it was printed with. And continue to be 'cumulative' unlike the other four.
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Attacker declares creatures to attack
End declare attackers step (play instants, abilities)
Declare blockers step (this is where the changes come in with regards to double/triple etc blocking.)
End declare blockers step (play instants, abilities)
Then damage is done. No stack anymore! Whee!
I have to admit though, this does make intuitive sense. Doesn't mean I have to like it though. ( Sad to see the fanatic get hated. He's one of my favourite men!)
See, this is exactly what I meant about not discussing opinion. Discuss that elsewhere, let this be one clean place to discuss the changes academically. :/ -Woap
The one example right from wizards page is:
Now that player can't regenerate his Drudge Skeletons? So I HAVE to put a regen shield on it before damage now? That kinda nerfs regen, no? How does this affect creatures like Mossbridge Troll?
Als ich chan
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Sapere Aude
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That's correct.
We may also trust there is still an end of combat step, since that would have required a conceptual reorganization, much deeper than the cosmetic "beginning of the end step".
The combat damage step after damage is dealt is still relevant, since it is "a time after damage is dealt before the 'end of combat' event occurs." And presently there's no reason to believe Combat Damage immediately ends after dealing damage. Indeed, damage is now at least a special part of beginning that step, like drawing a card on the draw step. The draw step has no stated plans for termination (despite murmurings it might be eaten by the upkeep step that I recall from a couple years ago...).
Again, this only matters if you block with two guys on 1, AND, such that the attacking creature can't just assign lethal damage to both. (Or, mutatis mutandis, blocking with three or more creatures.)
This matters only when you would block with Drudge Skeletons and another creature but such that they can't both die.... or if you have prevention or something such that he can assign "lethal" to everyone, but he might not (say, pile on 3 more damage to something, to beat a quantitative prevention effect you used).
Going in, you know your blockers have an 'order'. If you want your guy to live, you use regeneration. By being given an order, though, you know what the opponent has to do with his damage in order to assign some nonzero amount of damage to your Skeletons (specifically, you know he has to lethally assign damage to the creatures before the Drudges in the order).
Also, being the nonactive player, you will have last say, and thus, final knowledge of all existing effects.
If he orders Skeleton first, you know you have to regen (if you care about it). If he orders it last, you know you don't (we're still assuming the creature's power isn't large enough, btw).
It's only if your Skeletons are in combat, and the opponent has at least two ways he might assign damage to the creatures before the Drudges in the ordering, that you don't know everything relevant. But without effects, he's just going to assign lethal and no more to everything before Drudges... so it only matters if you used prevention.. *AND* the sort of prevention that doesn't prevent everything; which I called quantitative prevention. Then the ambiguity facing you, is that the opponent has yet to choose whether he'll try to kill that creature (piling enough damage on to beat the prevention, and deal lethal), or if he'll go around it to the regenerator (assigning technically but not effectively lethal to the preceding one).
Think of the fact of your guys being ordered as the "assigning" that you respond to. Like I said in the other post, he hasn't told you everything about how damage will be dealt... but he's told you something. Quite a lot, I think.
With this new change, there's a little information kept from everyone, at all times... whereas before, when damage is on the stack, the only game is who will add something to the stack, and before damage is on the stack, players know nothing.
And finally... this doesn't affect Mossbridge Troll at all. Its ability still means exactly what it says.
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i.e. If I attack with my Vizzerdrix (lol) into a Rhox Brute and a Knight of Meadowgrain, and I order Rhox Brute before the Knight, do I trade still with the Brute?
So it always has to have a regen shield if you want it to live from lethal before damage step, even if it's one blocker. Your right about how it allows everybody to see what's on the table and allows each player to see the possible next move. Does make it more concise IMO. I understand now.
But the example was about Deathtouch btw. You were talking about order, when new deathtouch doesn't follow order. I still understand everything now, I just read the rules like three more times to understand it better.
Als ich chan
Cogito Ergo Sum
Sapere Aude
Unless I'm reading it right say you block a creature with a sack ability like Sakura-Tribe Elder, you can't block and sacrifice the Elder in response to go get a basic land to put into play tapped cause you'd have to choose one or the other:
The effect to get a basic land while taking damage or block with it being a 1/1 creature and don't take any combat damage at all unless the attacking creature the Elder is blocking has Trample.
As for Dauntless Escort I'm assuming you also can't block and sacrifice it for it's Activated Ability to make all your creatures Indestructible either...
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The way I'm reading it - you can block and sac with either. You just can't block, use their ability which causes them to leave play, AND deal the damage.
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Bingo. You get damage or ability, not both, but you get ka-blockings either way.
"Sufficiently advanced experience is indistinguishable from clairvoyance." -Carsten
"Ah those eyes, those horrible creepy eyes!" -Chaosof99
DCI Level 3 Judge & TO
"I do not consider myself a hero. I know only what the Vec teach:
justice must always be served and corruption must always be opposed."
Go read! I am one of the three authors of Cranial Insertion.
But seriously, if you can't remember "Woapalanne", just call me Eli.
I'm not dealing damage with Sakura-Tribe Elder, I'm blocking and sacrificing it to go get a basic land after damage has been dealt from my Opponent during the Combat Phase.
Would that still be legal?
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta