I notice some cards, such as Blightspeaker and Onyx Goblet, cause a target player to lose 1 life. Is this meaningfully different from, say, Cinder Pyromancer, which can deal 1 damage to a target player?
Is it merely that life loss isn't damage, and so it can't be prevented by abilities like Barrenton Medic's?
(Apologies if this has been asked before, as it seems like it might be a common question. I was unable to find any such thread, however.)
I notice some cards, such as Blightspeaker and Onyx Goblet, cause a target player to lose 1 life. Is this meaningfully different from, say, Cinder Pyromancer, which can deal 1 damage to a target player?
Is it merely that life loss isn't damage, and so it can't be prevented by abilities like Barrenton Medic's?
Pretty much, yes. Prevention/redirection abilities don't generally work on life-loss effects.
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I notice some cards, such as Blightspeaker and Onyx Goblet, cause a target player to lose 1 life. Is this meaningfully different from, say, Cinder Pyromancer, which can deal 1 damage to a target player?
Is it merely that life loss isn't damage, and so it can't be prevented by abilities like Barrenton Medic's?
(Apologies if this has been asked before, as it seems like it might be a common question. I was unable to find any such thread, however.)
You are correct, life loss cannot be prevented or redirected.
Let me get one thing straight with you. When Condor and an official ruling disagree, 50% of the time the official ruling gets reversed later. The other 50% of the time, the rules get clarified/changed to make the ruling right when it really wasn't before.
You are correct, life loss cannot be prevented or redirected.
I don't think that's quite correct.
life loss theoretically could be prevented or redirected by a card that specifically allowed it to. It's more a practical function of WotC not making cards that do this, and less a rule that they can't isn't it?
I think the best way to say it is Life loss is not the same as damage, and therefore cards that reduce, prevent, or redirect damage do not have an impact on cards that specifically cause "life loss."
Life loss and Damage are not the same thing. Damage causes life loss, but other non-damage effects [card=Profane Command]can cause life loss as well.
Life loss is unaffected by anything that prevents or redirects damage.
Quote from Comp Rules, Glossary entry for Damage »
Damage can be dealt to creatures, planeswalkers, and players. Damage dealt to a player causes that player to lose that much life. Damage dealt to a planeswalker causes that planeswalker to lose that much loyalty. Damage dealt to a creature stays on the permanent until the cleanup step, even if it stops being a creature. A creature with damage greater than or equal to its toughness has been dealt lethal damage and is destroyed. (See rule 420, “State-Based Effects.”) Damage doesn’t alter a creature’s toughness. During the cleanup step, all damage is removed from permanents. Costs and effects that read “lose life” or “pay life” don’t deal damage, and that loss of life can’t be prevented or otherwise altered by effects that prevent or replace damage.
Quote from Comp Rules, Glossary entry for Life, Life Total »
Life total is a sort of score. Each player starts the game with 20 life. Any increase in a player’s life total is considered to be gaining life. Any decrease in a player’s life total is considered to be losing life. A player whose life total drops to 0 or less loses. This is a state-based effect; see rule 420.5. See also rule 215, “Life.”
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--Sun Tzu, The Art of War
life loss theoretically could be prevented or redirected by a card that specifically allowed it to. It's more a practical function of WotC not making cards that do this, and less a rule that they can't isn't it?
I think the best way to say it is Life loss is not the same as damage, and therefore cards that reduce, prevent, or redirect damage do not have an impact on cards that specifically cause "life loss."
For practical purposes it was correct, Binary said pretty much the same thing, he was just a little less committal. Technically though, prevention/redirection effects apply to damage because they are written that way, not because the Comp rules prohibits prevention of life loss, so the statement I made should have had a few more words to that fact.
Let me get one thing straight with you. When Condor and an official ruling disagree, 50% of the time the official ruling gets reversed later. The other 50% of the time, the rules get clarified/changed to make the ruling right when it really wasn't before.
Is it merely that life loss isn't damage, and so it can't be prevented by abilities like Barrenton Medic's?
(Apologies if this has been asked before, as it seems like it might be a common question. I was unable to find any such thread, however.)
Pretty much, yes. Prevention/redirection abilities don't generally work on life-loss effects.
You are correct, life loss cannot be prevented or redirected.
Argh! A millisecond too slow
MTG Rules Adviser/Advisor
Comp Rules, FAQs, and DCI Rules
I don't think that's quite correct.
life loss theoretically could be prevented or redirected by a card that specifically allowed it to. It's more a practical function of WotC not making cards that do this, and less a rule that they can't isn't it?
I think the best way to say it is Life loss is not the same as damage, and therefore cards that reduce, prevent, or redirect damage do not have an impact on cards that specifically cause "life loss."
Life loss is unaffected by anything that prevents or redirects damage.
--Sun Tzu, The Art of War
Level 2 DCI Judge
Thanks guys.
yes, but could WotC under the current rules make a card that says "The next time you would lose life this turn, lose 1 less life?"
now I know its clunky, and could be worded better, but I am just trying to see if I understand the rules correctly.
For practical purposes it was correct, Binary said pretty much the same thing, he was just a little less committal. Technically though, prevention/redirection effects apply to damage because they are written that way, not because the Comp rules prohibits prevention of life loss, so the statement I made should have had a few more words to that fact.
In fact, there is a card that prevents life loss from a specific source, Mindslaver, so the precedent is there.
This isn't really the place for discussion on hypothetical cards though.
MTG Rules Adviser/Advisor
Comp Rules, FAQs, and DCI Rules
Thanks for the answer.