Take, for example, Surging Flame. It says when it is played, I get the Ripple effect, right? So if I hit another Surging Flame, I get another ripple effect off of that one too, right?
And how would Thrumming Stone and something like Index work out? How do I decide which effect I get first? I'm leaning toward getting the Ripple first, since it gets stacked second, but I wanna check.
Also, OMGZORZ combo of teh year, Thrumming Stone and Relentless Rats. Assuming you get Ripple off of Ripple'd cards.
to answer your question yes ripple is cooler now with thrumming stone.
yes to the first question. if you play surging flame play you ripple for 4. if you hit another you can play it at no cost and ripple for 4. ripple keeps going as long as you run into the card named surging flame.
well thrumming stone and index would kinda of be pointless. index would have ripple 4 you look at the top 5 cards put them in any order then ripple. then play any other card named index without paying its casting cost. put the rest of those cards in any order on the bottom of your library. then you would index again with ripple 4.
yes thrumming stone and the rats are the new combo of the century. and each rat would have ripple 4. you could go through your whole deck except for the land if as long as you hit a rat.
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Take, for example, Surging Flame. It says when it is played, I get the Ripple effect, right? So if I hit another Surging Flame, I get another ripple effect off of that one too, right?
Yes, ripple lets you play the card, so you get the ripple effect too
And how would Thrumming Stone and something like Index work out? How do I decide which effect I get first? I'm leaning toward getting the Ripple first, since it gets stacked second, but I wanna check.
That's right, the ripple ability is stacked on top of the spell, so it resolves first
Yes, but your wording is incorrect. You are actually playing the new Surging Flame (just because you don't have to pay for it doesn't mean you aren't paying for it), so you get to choose the target normally for that spell. There is no need for it to be the same target as the spell that rippled into it (it can be if you want it to be). Note: The reason ripple chains off itself is because you are actually playing the new spell, so the ripple on that spell will trigger as soon as the spell becomes played.
It's just hard to choose a new target for something that never had a taget in the first place.
So how would that work with the Rats, then? Once you play the ones you ripple up, are they moved from the deck to the stack, so that you get fresh cards to ripple through?
Also, ripple has got to be one of the coolest keywords to use while talking about it.
surf, with the relentless rats heres how the ripple works...
play the rats, rats on stack, ripple triggers above it, resolve the ripple (assuming it wasn't stifled or void slimed) look at top 4, revealing 2-3 rats, each revealed rat, may be played, and you get a new ripple trigger (without paying to play the rat, yay, and you still have another 1-2 rats waiting to be cast) say you miss... whoops, ok, cast 2nd rat revealed by first ripple, yay, reveal another, etc...etc... blah blah blah, you get the picture now. Each rat, is PLAYed for free by the ripple, and because ripple is a triggered ability functions off of the playing of the card, not the card resolving, they could even COUNTER the first rat, and you'd still get your ripple trigger and hopefully hit another rat.
(side note: please... no more relentless ripple rat questions, i've seen too many today, here and elsewhere, yes it's a combo, no you're not origional, everyone who saw the stone, and remembered the rats thought of it... chuckled, and went on with trying to find an ohran viper in their packs)
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hey, a judge at my prerelease told me that when you ripple cards, you theoredically add the text of each card to the first because you cannot put spells on the stack while one is resolving; if you counter the first, all copies are countered. could someone please verify.
The judge was wrong, it's true that (normally) you can't play spells while another spell is resolving, however, ripple is a triggered ability that triggers when you play the spell, so it goes to the stack on top of the spell and it resolves first, and then you can play the cards with the same name, all this is done before the original spell resolves, each one is a independant spell and would need a counterspell for each one (that or swift silence :))
Another thing to remember here is golden rule number 1. When a card's text or more specific rules text overrides the general rules, the card/more specific rule wins. So, despite the fact that the rules say you can't play spells while something is resolving, if a specific part of the card/ability (like that of Isochron Scepter) specificly says you can play a certain spell while the ability is resoving, then you can (but only that one specific spell at that one specific time).
As for the actual question, darkasecas is correct. The new spell is actually played completely seperately from the first one and goes on the stack on top of it. There is no adding of text from one card to another (like splice).
also, this is NOT during the resolution of the first spell, the first spell is still on the stack, the ripple is a Triggered Ability, (as mentioned earlier) that is independent of the spell or it's resolution. Even if the origional is countered, you still get ripple, and may still play the extras., Hell, even after the ripple RESOLVES, you can still counter the origional.
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Spike the tourney player has to know the rules, or he gets DQ'ed.
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Johnny Combo's gotta know the rules, or he wouldn't understand his own deck.
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Timmy... here's a cookie timmy, go play with your Autochthon Wurm.
hey, a judge at my prerelease told me that when you ripple cards, you theoredically add the text of each card to the first because you cannot put spells on the stack while one is resolving
That judge's head probably explodes when he tries to comprehend Eye of the Storm then.
That conclusion is definitely wrong; you're not adding the text of anything to anything else. Each spell is a separate and distinct object on the stack, and Ripple specifically allows you to play those spells during the resolution of the ability.
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Ripple works pretty well when you use anything that puts cards on top of your library.
Here's a fun one:
Thrumming Stone in play:
Cast Determined part of Bound // Determined
Cast another one
Hinder it sending it to the top of the library
Hinder the hinder sending it to the top of the library.
Are you doing your list assuming the 1st determined had resolved THEN play the 2nd one?
When you play Hinder (#1) with a Thrumming Stone in play, the Ripple ability from the Hinder will go on the stack above the Hinder. You can then play a second Hinder (#2) targeting the first (#1), triggering Ripple again. The stack at this point looks like (and I'm making it a bit more simple than what you had in order to illustrate how this works):
Ripple #2 resolves first, before either Hinder. So, unless you reveal a Hinder from the Library this way, you probably won't do much of anything. Hinder #2 then resolves, putting Hinder #1 on the top of the library. Hinder #2 goes to the graveyard. Then you resolve Ripple #1, and can choose to play Hinder #1 (since it will have the same name as the spell that was played that had Ripple). In which case, Hinder #1 can target the spell you originally targeted.
That's the basic jist. But, with only two Hinders, you won't get some kind of weird loop. Edit: Perhaps part of your understanding of Ripple is that you play the revealed cards after the ability resolves. That's not how the ability works; you actually play the revealed cards as the ability is resolving. If the ability resolves completely and you haven't played the cards, then you've technically past your opportunity to play them.
Quote from lokiloks »
If that's the case can a hinder target itself so that we could stack our library in 4 card clumps ad infinitum?
Hinder cannot target itself: 415.6. A spell or ability on the stack is an illegal target for itself. You can play a Hinder revealed by the Ripple ability and target the Hinder that was originally played to trigger the Ripple ability, but that's it about (presuming that Hinder is still on the stack).
Relating to the relentless rats, and Thrumming stone I saw a list somewhere with a single hasteing spell. The plan was to "sift" this to the top of the deck, then draw it with a top. I can't figure our how ripple lets you "sift," even after you have seen the whole library. Not sure if this should be posted eleswhere, but seems vaguely related. More mechanics than strategy.
And how would Thrumming Stone and something like Index work out? How do I decide which effect I get first? I'm leaning toward getting the Ripple first, since it gets stacked second, but I wanna check.
Also, OMGZORZ combo of teh year, Thrumming Stone and Relentless Rats. Assuming you get Ripple off of Ripple'd cards.
Altered Cards! Crafts and Stuff!
yes to the first question. if you play surging flame play you ripple for 4. if you hit another you can play it at no cost and ripple for 4. ripple keeps going as long as you run into the card named surging flame.
well thrumming stone and index would kinda of be pointless. index would have ripple 4 you look at the top 5 cards put them in any order then ripple. then play any other card named index without paying its casting cost. put the rest of those cards in any order on the bottom of your library. then you would index again with ripple 4.
yes thrumming stone and the rats are the new combo of the century. and each rat would have ripple 4. you could go through your whole deck except for the land if as long as you hit a rat.
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Yes, ripple lets you play the card, so you get the ripple effect too
That's right, the ripple ability is stacked on top of the spell, so it resolves first
It's just hard to choose a new target for something that never had a taget in the first place.
Winner of the Weekly Signature & Avatar Contest Weeks 51, 59, 78, & 118.
I don't care if I was framed for murder if I only got a warning I would let it go.
Also, ripple has got to be one of the coolest keywords to use while talking about it.
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play the rats, rats on stack, ripple triggers above it, resolve the ripple (assuming it wasn't stifled or void slimed) look at top 4, revealing 2-3 rats, each revealed rat, may be played, and you get a new ripple trigger (without paying to play the rat, yay, and you still have another 1-2 rats waiting to be cast) say you miss... whoops, ok, cast 2nd rat revealed by first ripple, yay, reveal another, etc...etc... blah blah blah, you get the picture now. Each rat, is PLAYed for free by the ripple, and because ripple is a triggered ability functions off of the playing of the card, not the card resolving, they could even COUNTER the first rat, and you'd still get your ripple trigger and hopefully hit another rat.
(side note: please... no more relentless ripple rat questions, i've seen too many today, here and elsewhere, yes it's a combo, no you're not origional, everyone who saw the stone, and remembered the rats thought of it... chuckled, and went on with trying to find an ohran viper in their packs)
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Johnny Combo's gotta know the rules, or he wouldn't understand his own deck.
---
Timmy... here's a cookie timmy, go play with your Autochthon Wurm.
As for the actual question, darkasecas is correct. The new spell is actually played completely seperately from the first one and goes on the stack on top of it. There is no adding of text from one card to another (like splice).
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I don't care if I was framed for murder if I only got a warning I would let it go.
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Johnny Combo's gotta know the rules, or he wouldn't understand his own deck.
---
Timmy... here's a cookie timmy, go play with your Autochthon Wurm.
Remember, kids: Never fight with Flashback, 'cause Flashback always wins.
That judge's head probably explodes when he tries to comprehend Eye of the Storm then.
That conclusion is definitely wrong; you're not adding the text of anything to anything else. Each spell is a separate and distinct object on the stack, and Ripple specifically allows you to play those spells during the resolution of the ability.
Here's a fun one:
Thrumming Stone in play:
Cast Determined part of Bound // Determined
Cast another one
Hinder it sending it to the top of the library
Hinder the hinder sending it to the top of the library.
Now figure out what happens/what you can do
Albuquerque, NM
LokiLoks on MWS
Hey! I know you!
Really?
No, not really, I just like saying that.
If that's the case can a hinder target itself so that we could stack our library in 4 card clumps ad infinitum?
Albuquerque, NM
LokiLoks on MWS
Hey! I know you!
Really?
No, not really, I just like saying that.
When you play Hinder (#1) with a Thrumming Stone in play, the Ripple ability from the Hinder will go on the stack above the Hinder. You can then play a second Hinder (#2) targeting the first (#1), triggering Ripple again. The stack at this point looks like (and I'm making it a bit more simple than what you had in order to illustrate how this works):
<<top>>
Ripple #2
Hinder #2
Ripple #1
Hinder #1
Spell targeted by Hinder#1
<<bottom>>
Ripple #2 resolves first, before either Hinder. So, unless you reveal a Hinder from the Library this way, you probably won't do much of anything. Hinder #2 then resolves, putting Hinder #1 on the top of the library. Hinder #2 goes to the graveyard. Then you resolve Ripple #1, and can choose to play Hinder #1 (since it will have the same name as the spell that was played that had Ripple). In which case, Hinder #1 can target the spell you originally targeted.
That's the basic jist. But, with only two Hinders, you won't get some kind of weird loop. Edit: Perhaps part of your understanding of Ripple is that you play the revealed cards after the ability resolves. That's not how the ability works; you actually play the revealed cards as the ability is resolving. If the ability resolves completely and you haven't played the cards, then you've technically past your opportunity to play them.
Hinder cannot target itself: 415.6. A spell or ability on the stack is an illegal target for itself. You can play a Hinder revealed by the Ripple ability and target the Hinder that was originally played to trigger the Ripple ability, but that's it about (presuming that Hinder is still on the stack).
Tap top, draw a card, put top on top.
Tap second top, draw first top, put second top on top.
Play first top, ripple for the second.
End result: 1: draw a card.
Abusable much?
Also, for even more heart-attacking greatness, Thrumming Stone+Mirror Gallery.