Yes, I know it's from unglued. As far as I know, though, all it's abilities work as they should, so... I understand how everything but Phasing works on it. Does it survive three turns or six from Fading? Does it Phase out the turn after you play it, preventing you from attacking? Does this stop you from having to pay the Echo cost? Does it get cumulitive upkeep while it's phased out?
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Banana of the Month Feb '05 Cool stuff here.
Turn 1's main phase: Old Fogey comes into play (with 3 fade counters).
Turn 2's untap step: Old Fogey phases out.
Turn 3's untap step: Old Fogey phases in.
Turn 3's upkeep step: Cumulative Upkeep, Echo, and Fading trigger. When the first resolves, put an age counter on Fogey and pay 1 or sacrifice it. When the second resolves, pay GG or sacrifice Fogey. When the third resolves, remove a fade counter (2 left) from Fogey.
Turn 4's untap step: Old Fogey phases out.
Turn 5's untap step: Old Fogey phases in.
Turn 5's upkeep step: Cumulative Upkeep, Echo, and Fading trigger. When the first resolves, put an age counter on Fogey and pay 2 or sacrifice it. When the second resolves, pay GG or sacrifice Fogey. When the third resolves, remove a fade counter (1 left) from Fogey.
Turn 6's untap step: Old Fogey phases out.
Turn 7's untap step: Old Fogey phases in.
Turn 7's upkeep step: Cumulative Upkeep, Echo, and Fading trigger. When the first resolves, put an age counter on Fogey and pay 3 or sacrifice it. When the second resolves, pay GG or sacrifice Fogey. When the third resolves, remove a fade counter (none left) from Fogey.
Turn 8's untap step: Old Fogey phases out.
Turn 9's untap step: Old Fogey phases in.
Turn 9's upkeep step: Cumulative Upkeep, Echo, and Fading trigger. When the first resolves, put an age counter on Fogey and pay 4 or sacrifice it. When the second resolves, pay GG or sacrifice Fogey. When the third resolves, sacrifice Fogey.
Quote from Unhinged FAQTIWDAWCC (Frequently Asked Questions That If We Didn"t Answer Would Cause Chaos) »
Old Fogey
Help!
That's not a question. This isn't a Frequently Stated Comments. Can you help me?
That's better. What do you need to know? How do these abilities interact?
Let's just stick to the four that interact -- phasing, cumulative upkeep {1}, echo, and fading 3.
Turn #1 -- You play Old Fogey.
Turn #2 -- During your untap step before you untap, Old Fogey phases out.
Turn #3 -- During your untap step before you untap, Old Fogey phases in. Cumulative upkeep says, "Hey, pay {1}. You know, or sacrifice Old Fogey. Your call." (This assumes your abilities have the ability to speak -- mine do). Echo says, "Pay {GG} or sacrifice Old Fogey." And finally fading says "Take off one of my three fading counters."
Turn #4 -- During your untap step before you untap, Old Fogey phases out.
Turn #5 -- During your untap step before you untap, Old Fogey phases in. Cumulative upkeep says, "Hey, pay {2}." Echo says, "Remember me? Pay {GG} again sucker!" And fading says "Take off another fading counter. I'm down to one."
Turn #6 -- During your untap step before you untap, Old Fogey phases out.
Turn #7 -- During your untap step before you untap, Old Fogey phases in.
Cumulative upkeep says, "Hey, pay {3}." Echo says, "Yeah, yeah, I'm an
extortionist. Sue me. Pay {GG}." " And fading says "Take off my last fading
counter."
Turn #8 -- During your untap step before you untap, Old Fogey phases out.
Turn #9 -- During your untap step before you untap, Old Fogey phases in.
Cumulative upkeep says, "Hey, pay {4}." Fading then chimes in and says, "You know, I'm going to make you sacrifice Old Fogey. Do you really want to pay {4}?" Then cumulative upkeep says, "Maybe I will. What are you going to do about it?" And then echo says, "Guys, can't we just all get along? Can't we all just get along? Get along? Along?" A fight then ensues which ends with Old Fogey's death.
We live in a country were ~50% of the populace believe public schooling is a socialist conspiracy and that being called Einstein is an insult. We could try and fix it, but unfortunately the other 50% don't believe in euthanasia.
why would the echo keep triggering? wouldnt it only trigger the first time?
I would also agree.... but.... Echo does this:
"At the beginning of your upkeep, if this permanent came under your control since the beginning of your last upkeep, sacrifice it unless you pay its mana cost."
Phasing doesn't specifically state to ignore that the permanent did in fact leave your control - it just tells you to do things differently in a certain way.
To the Glossary!!! (Na na na nanana NA!)
Echo asks whether the "permanent came under your control since the beginning of your last upkeep."
Phasing has this rule about keeping the old timestamp, and that it remembers its past history.
Hmm... I'm not sure on this one.
Quote from Comp Rules 502.15 »
Phasing 502.15a Phasing is a static ability that modifies the rules of the untap step. 502.15b During each player’s untap step, before the active player untaps his or her permanents, all permanents with phasing the player controls phase out. Simultaneously, all objects that had phased out under that player’s control phase in. (See rule 217.8, “Phased Out,” and rule 302.1.) 502.15c If an effect causes a player to skip his or her untap step, the phasing event simply doesn’t occur that turn. 502.15d Permanents phasing in or out don’t trigger any comes-into-play or leaves-play abilities, and effects that modify how a permanent comes into play are ignored. Abilities and effects that specifically mention phasing can modify or trigger on these events, however. (Because no player receives priority during the untap step, any abilities triggering off of the phasing event won’t go onto the stack until the upkeep step begins.) 502.15e When a permanent phases out, all damage dealt to it is removed. 502.15f A card that returns to play from the phased-out zone is considered the same permanent it was when it left. This is an exception to rule 217.1c, which stipulates that a permanent “forgets” its previous existence when it changes zones. 502.15g Effects with limited duration and delayed triggered abilities that specifically reference a permanent will be unable to further affect that permanent if it phases out. However, other effects that reference the permanent (including effects with unlimited duration) can affect the permanent when it returns to play. Example: A creature is affected by Giant Growth and then phases out during the same turn. If the creature phases back in somehow before the turn is over, it won’t get the +3/+3 bonus from the Giant Growth because its effect has a limited duration. 502.15h Phased-out cards “remember” their past histories and will return to play in the same state. They “remember” any counters they had on them, any choices made when they first came into play, whether they were flipped when they left play, and whether they were tapped or untapped when they left play. They also “remember” who controlled them when they phased out, although they may phase in under the control of a different player if a control effect with limited duration has expired. Example: Diseased Vermin reads, in part, “At the beginning of your upkeep, Diseased Vermin deals X damage to target opponent previously dealt damage by it, where X is the number of infection counters on it.” If Diseased Vermin phases out, it “remembers” how many counters it has and also which opponents it has previously damaged. When it phases back in, it will still be able to target those opponents with its upkeep-triggered ability. 502.15i When a permanent phases out, any Auras or Equipment attached to that permanent phase out at the same time. This alternate way of phasing out is known as phasing out “indirectly.” An Aura or Equipment that phased out indirectly won’t phase in by itself, but instead phases in along with the card it’s attached to. 502.15j If an Aura or Equipment phased out directly (rather than phasing out along with the permanent it’s attached to), then it “remembers” the permanent it was attached to and returns to play attached to that permanent. If an Aura phases in and the permanent it was attached to has left play or is no longer legal to enchant, the Aura returns to play and then is placed in its owner’s graveyard. This is a state-based effect; see rule 420. If an Equipment phases in and the permanent it was attached to has left play or is no longer legal to equip, the Equipment returns to play and then stays in play, not equipping anything. This is a state-based effect; see rule 420. 502.15k Permanents that phase in keep the same timestamps (see rules 418.5d and 418.5e) they had when they phased out. This doesn’t change the fact that the permanents phase in simultaneously, however. 502.15m A permanent that phases in can attack and tap to play abilities as though it had haste. This applies even if that permanent phased out and phased back in the turn it came into play. The permanent remains able to attack and tap to play abilities until it changes controllers or leaves play. 502.15n A spell or ability that targets a permanent will resolve normally with respect to that permanent if the permanent phases out and back in before the spell or ability resolves. 502.15p Multiple instances of phasing on the same permanent are redundant.
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why would the echo keep triggering? wouldnt it only trigger the first time?
Why would it not trigger?
When a permanent phases in, it does "come into play." That doesn't trigger "comes into play" abilities because a rule says it doesn't, not because it didn't "come into play." It is treated in every other way like a permanent that came into play. That includes effects thatlook backin time, like echo.
Oops, forgot my last question. Since it is comeing into play every other turn... does that mean it always has summoning sickness, and can't attack, or does Phasing ignore that too?
Yes, I know it's from unglued. As far as I know, though, all it's abilities work as they should, so... I understand how everything but Phasing works on it. Does it survive three turns or six from Fading? Does it Phase out the turn after you play it, preventing you from attacking? Does this stop you from having to pay the Echo cost? Does it get cumulitive upkeep while it's phased out?
Possibly the last remaining member of the Banana Clan (+1)
Banana of the Month Feb '05
Cool stuff here.
Turn 2's untap step: Old Fogey phases out.
Turn 3's untap step: Old Fogey phases in.
Turn 3's upkeep step: Cumulative Upkeep, Echo, and Fading trigger. When the first resolves, put an age counter on Fogey and pay 1 or sacrifice it. When the second resolves, pay GG or sacrifice Fogey. When the third resolves, remove a fade counter (2 left) from Fogey.
Turn 4's untap step: Old Fogey phases out.
Turn 5's untap step: Old Fogey phases in.
Turn 5's upkeep step: Cumulative Upkeep, Echo, and Fading trigger. When the first resolves, put an age counter on Fogey and pay 2 or sacrifice it. When the second resolves, pay GG or sacrifice Fogey. When the third resolves, remove a fade counter (1 left) from Fogey.
Turn 6's untap step: Old Fogey phases out.
Turn 7's untap step: Old Fogey phases in.
Turn 7's upkeep step: Cumulative Upkeep, Echo, and Fading trigger. When the first resolves, put an age counter on Fogey and pay 3 or sacrifice it. When the second resolves, pay GG or sacrifice Fogey. When the third resolves, remove a fade counter (none left) from Fogey.
Turn 8's untap step: Old Fogey phases out.
Turn 9's untap step: Old Fogey phases in.
Turn 9's upkeep step: Cumulative Upkeep, Echo, and Fading trigger. When the first resolves, put an age counter on Fogey and pay 4 or sacrifice it. When the second resolves, pay GG or sacrifice Fogey. When the third resolves, sacrifice Fogey.
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I would also agree.... but.... Echo does this:
"At the beginning of your upkeep, if this permanent came under your control since the beginning of your last upkeep, sacrifice it unless you pay its mana cost."
Phasing doesn't specifically state to ignore that the permanent did in fact leave your control - it just tells you to do things differently in a certain way.
To the Glossary!!! (Na na na nanana NA!)
Echo asks whether the "permanent came under your control since the beginning of your last upkeep."
Phasing has this rule about keeping the old timestamp, and that it remembers its past history.
Hmm... I'm not sure on this one.
Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].
Why would it not trigger?
When a permanent phases in, it does "come into play." That doesn't trigger "comes into play" abilities because a rule says it doesn't, not because it didn't "come into play." It is treated in every other way like a permanent that came into play. That includes effects that look back in time, like echo.
Possibly the last remaining member of the Banana Clan (+1)
Banana of the Month Feb '05
Cool stuff here.