I'm told Barkhide Troll will trigger Pelt Collector twice upon entry (i.e. give it two +1/+1 counters). Is this true and if so can someone explain how?
I don't see how someone could reach that conclusion. There is only one such ability and there is no reason for it to trigger more than once in the situation described.
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I think his interpretation is that Barkhide Troll enters the battlefield as an initial 2/2 creature which is the first trigger to Pelt Collector but then Barkhide Troll gets its "Barkhide Troll enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it" which is the second trigger to Pelt Collector making it a 3/3 from a 1/1.
But I think what you are saying is that Troll enters simply as a 3/3 only triggering Pelt once, correct?
Barkhide Troll's first ability gives Barkhide Troll +1/+1 counters upon entering the battlefield, so that the creature is 3/3 from the first moment it's on the battlefield (C.R. 614.1c, 614.1d). Barkhide Troll doesn't enter as 2/2 and then become 3/3 (C.R. 603.6b).
Note that Barkhide Troll's first ability is not a triggered ability. An ability that starts with "when", "at", or "whenever" is a triggered ability (C.R. 603.1). An ability that starts with "As", "If", "You may have", or "[Something] enters the battlefield" is not a triggered ability.
Follow-up question regarding sylvan anthem interaction. So say I have sylvan anthem in play and then cast pelt collector followed by dryad militant. Does Pelt get a +1/+1 counter when the Dryad comes out since Sylvan is in play?
But I think what you are saying is that Troll enters simply as a 3/3 only triggering Pelt once, correct?
Yes. The ability "Barkhide Troll enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it." creates a replacement effect that modifies Barkhide Troll's one (1) entry to the battlefield. It does not result in the Troll leaving and re-entering the battlefield at some unspecified time.
614.1. Some continuous effects are replacement effects. Like prevention effects (see rule 615),
replacement effects apply continuously as events happen—they aren’t locked in ahead of time. Such
effects watch for a particular event that would happen and completely or partially replace that event
with a different event. They act like “shields” around whatever they’re affecting.
614.1d Continuous effects that read “[This permanent] enters the battlefield . . .” or “[Objects] enter
the battlefield . . .” are replacement effects.
Follow-up question regarding sylvan anthem interaction. So say I have sylvan anthem in play and then cast pelt collector followed by dryad militant. Does Pelt get a +1/+1 counter when the Dryad comes out since Sylvan is in play?
Yes, assuming nothing else (like a prior counter) is boosting Pelt Collector's power. Dryad Militant enters the battlefield as a 3/2 due to Sylvan Anthem, and its power isn't even checked until Pelt Collector's triggered ability resolves.
Edit: See Rezzahan's response for my oversight on the last part of my original post.
611.3c Continuous effects that modify characteristics of permanents do so simultaneously with the
permanent entering the battlefield. They don’t wait until the permanent is on the battlefield and
then change it. Because such effects apply as the permanent enters the battlefield, they are
applied before determining whether the permanent will cause an ability to trigger when it enters
the battlefield.
Example: A permanent with the static ability “All white creatures get +1/+1” is on the
battlefield. A creature spell that would normally create a 1/1 white creature instead
creates a 2/2 white creature. The creature doesn’t enter the battlefield as 1/1 and then
change to 2/2.
608.2h If an effect requires information from the game (such as the number of creatures on the
battlefield), the answer is determined only once, when the effect is applied. If the effect requires
information from a specific object, including the source of the ability itself, the effect uses the
current information of that object if it’s in the public zone it was expected to be in; if it’s no
longer in that zone, or if the effect has moved it from a public zone to a hidden zone, the effect
uses the object’s last known information. See rule 113.7a. If an ability states that an object does
something, it’s the object as it exists—or as it most recently existed—that does it, not the
ability.
Yes, assuming nothing else (like a prior counter) is boosting Pelt Collector's power. Dryad Militant enters the battlefield as a 3/2 due to Sylvan Anthem, and its power isn't even checked until Pelt Collector's triggered ability resolves.
That is incorrect. Because the trigger condition is directly followed by the if condition, it is an intervening-if condition. As such it has to be true both when the ability would trigger and when it resolves. If it's not true when the ability would trigger, it doesn't trigger. If the condition isn't true when the trigger would resolve, the trigger does nothing.
603.4. A triggered ability may read “When/Whenever/At [trigger event], if [condition], [effect].” When
the trigger event occurs, the ability checks whether the stated condition is true. The ability triggers
only if it is; otherwise it does nothing. If the ability triggers, it checks the stated condition again as it
resolves. If the condition isn’t true at that time, the ability is removed from the stack and does
nothing. Note that this mirrors the check for legal targets. This rule is referred to as the “intervening
‘if’ clause” rule. (The word “if” has only its normal English meaning anywhere else in the text of a
card; this rule only applies to an “if” that immediately follows a trigger condition.)
[c]Pelt Collector[/c] -> Pelt Collector
I don't see how someone could reach that conclusion. There is only one such ability and there is no reason for it to trigger more than once in the situation described.
But I think what you are saying is that Troll enters simply as a 3/3 only triggering Pelt once, correct?
Note that Barkhide Troll's first ability is not a triggered ability. An ability that starts with "when", "at", or "whenever" is a triggered ability (C.R. 603.1). An ability that starts with "As", "If", "You may have", or "[Something] enters the battlefield" is not a triggered ability.
Yes. The ability "Barkhide Troll enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it." creates a replacement effect that modifies Barkhide Troll's one (1) entry to the battlefield. It does not result in the Troll leaving and re-entering the battlefield at some unspecified time.
Yes, assuming nothing else (like a prior counter) is boosting Pelt Collector's power. Dryad Militant enters the battlefield as a 3/2 due to Sylvan Anthem,
and its power isn't even checked until Pelt Collector's triggered ability resolves.Edit: See Rezzahan's response for my oversight on the last part of my original post.
That is incorrect. Because the trigger condition is directly followed by the if condition, it is an intervening-if condition. As such it has to be true both when the ability would trigger and when it resolves. If it's not true when the ability would trigger, it doesn't trigger. If the condition isn't true when the trigger would resolve, the trigger does nothing.
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