Hi all, I was hoping to get some clarification on a specific scenario and how it should have played out. In a commander game where Player 1 had 9 HP, player 2 had 5 HP left, and the other 2 players health is irrelevant to this scenario. Player 1 declared an attacker against player 2 that couldn't be blocked. In response, player 2 using a Chatterfang, Squirrel General deck, sacrificed 9 squirrels, while Falkenrath Noble was on the board (whenever a he or another creature dies, target players loses a life and you gain 1 life) in order to kill player 1. In response player 3 played Unsummon on Falkenrath Noble in an attempt to stop player 2 from killing player 1.
We played it where it worked and Player 2 died and just sacrificed squirrels to only trigger Chatterfangs ability itself but then there was some discussions if we played it correctly due to rule 603.10 and other associated rules. Most examples I have found are typically if a destroy all creature occurs or something to that effect but not typically for a creature returned to hand.
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Because the squirrels are sacrificed as a cost, there is no way to use Unsummon to stop Falkenrath Noble from triggering here. By the time player 3 can respond to Chatterfang's ability, the Noble's triggers are already on the stack, and they will resolve no matter if the Noble leaves the battlefield, as an ability on the stack is independent from its source.
603.10 is irrelevant here, as the Noble's ability doesn't need to look back in time to trigger, as it does when things die at the same time as itself. Here, it has long since triggered and the instances of its ability are on the stack by the time Unsummon removes it from the battlefield. Rather, you need to look at 113.7a, which explains that the triggers will still resolve.
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Okay that makes sense. So if it were a combat situation and he threw a bunch of weenie blockers to just die and trigger enough to kill me, then an instant could be played to move falkenrath prior to damage assignment, but since the cost of Chatterfang's ability is the mana and Sacrifice creatures, you can't really respond to that?
Okay that makes sense. So if it were a combat situation and he threw a bunch of weenie blockers to just die and trigger enough to kill me, then an instant could be played to move falkenrath prior to damage assignment, but since the cost of Chatterfang's ability is the mana and Sacrifice creatures, you can't really respond to that?
Correct, one can't respond to costs. You can only respond to a spell or activated ability once it's fully cast or activated and paid for, and any triggered abilities that triggered from paying those costs are already on the stack.
I'm a former judge (lapsed), who keeps up to date on rules and policy. Keep in mind that judges' answers aren't necessarily more valid than those of people who aren't judges; what matters is we can quote the rules to back up our answers. When in doubt, ask for such quotes.
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We played it where it worked and Player 2 died and just sacrificed squirrels to only trigger Chatterfangs ability itself but then there was some discussions if we played it correctly due to rule 603.10 and other associated rules. Most examples I have found are typically if a destroy all creature occurs or something to that effect but not typically for a creature returned to hand.
Using card tags is mandatory in the Magic Rulings forum. Please check your private messages to learn how to use them. I've added them for this post.
-MadMage
603.10 is irrelevant here, as the Noble's ability doesn't need to look back in time to trigger, as it does when things die at the same time as itself. Here, it has long since triggered and the instances of its ability are on the stack by the time Unsummon removes it from the battlefield. Rather, you need to look at 113.7a, which explains that the triggers will still resolve.