Its ability has a wording "becomes a copy". Until now, I only encountered instances where you "copy <something>" in which case the copy doesn't get the counters that are on the original. When Permeating Mass touches something, will it retain its counters? I was thinking about playing Masses, boosting it with cards like the aforementioned Long-Forgotten Gohei, +1/+1 counters and other spells. If I understand it correctly, all I need is to have my Mass at least power 3 and then it basically works like deathtouch, but it also kills indestructible. Is this right?
Post moved from a previous thread to its own thread since it was an independent question. -MadMage
Not exactly. Counters aren't removed from a permanent merely when its characteristics change (including if it becomes a copy of something). Also, when a creature becomes a copy of Permeating Mass, it acquires Permeating Mass's copiable values, which take into account other copy effects but not counters and not most other effects (including "get[s] +1/+1" effects and effects that add abilities) (C.R. 707.2).
Alright, so the wording "become" is the most important here. A friend told me that every copy loses counters of the original, but this is a different case as you stated.
Is there any way an opponent could get his creature's charasteristics back after the damage is dealt and his creature became a copy?
My tactic was basically only to block with it once I have at least power 3 on it, so the opponent's creature dies immediately after becoming Mass. Just to make sure, in this case, does it mean that Mass would kill Athreos, Shroud-Veiled?
Alright, so the wording "become" is the most important here. A friend told me that every copy loses counters of the original, but this is a different case as you stated.
Is there any way an opponent could get his creature's charasteristics back after the damage is dealt and his creature became a copy?
My tactic was basically only to block with it once I have at least power 3 on it, so the opponent's creature dies immediately after becoming Mass. Just to make sure, in this case, does it mean that Mass would kill Athreos, Shroud-Veiled?
Thank you.
Sure, Athreos would lose all of its printed characteristics and abilities including indestructible and gain the copiable (printed, pretty much) values of Permeating Mass, so it would be a 1/3 without indestructible and it would get destroyed.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm a former judge (lapsed), who keeps up to date on rules and policy. Keep in mind that judges' answers aren't necessarily more valid than those of people who aren't judges; what matters is we can quote the rules to back up our answers. When in doubt, ask for such quotes.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Its ability has a wording "becomes a copy". Until now, I only encountered instances where you "copy <something>" in which case the copy doesn't get the counters that are on the original. When Permeating Mass touches something, will it retain its counters? I was thinking about playing Masses, boosting it with cards like the aforementioned Long-Forgotten Gohei, +1/+1 counters and other spells. If I understand it correctly, all I need is to have my Mass at least power 3 and then it basically works like deathtouch, but it also kills indestructible. Is this right?
Post moved from a previous thread to its own thread since it was an independent question. -MadMage
Is there any way an opponent could get his creature's charasteristics back after the damage is dealt and his creature became a copy?
My tactic was basically only to block with it once I have at least power 3 on it, so the opponent's creature dies immediately after becoming Mass. Just to make sure, in this case, does it mean that Mass would kill Athreos, Shroud-Veiled?
Thank you.