I recently encountered the following game situation that confused me a bit, and I hope someone here can help me out - and that I am posting in the correct subforum.
I had a Thundering Raiju on the board, as well as another creature. I declared these two creatures as attackers, and then cast the instant Ambitious Assault.
My question is: would, in this case, the effect of Thundering Raiju trigger first, or would Amibtious Assault trigger first? I am still a beginner and my understanding is that the triggered ability and this instant would momentarily be on the stack together, with the instant being cast last, and therefore it should trigger first. The order is important, because if Thundering Raiju triggers first, his ability would allow me to put a +1/+1 counter on one of my creatures, allowing me to draw a card because of Ambitious Assault (which draws a card if there if I control a modified creature).
Apologies if my wording is vague. As I said, I am just starting out and am still trying to wrap my head around these kind of cases. In any case, many thanks in advance for any advice!
Hi and welcome to MTGSalvation! I replaced the brackets and links to Scryfall by card tags, which is our "house method" to show cards. Please check your private messages to learn how to use them. -MadMage
You may have misunderstood things. Here is what can happen:
You attack with Thundering Raiju and a creature with no abilities. Thundering Raiju's triggered ability triggers.
That ability goes on the stack, and you target a "creature you control" with it.
(At this point you could cast Ambitious Assault in response to that ability but you don't have to. The rest of this scenario shows an alternative.)
All players pass, then the ability resolves. You put a +1/+1 counter on the targeted creature, then "Thundering Raiju deals X damage to each opponent, where X is the number of modified creatures you control other than Thundering Raiju".
Then you cast Ambitious Assault.
All players pass, then Ambitious Assault resolves. "Creatures you control get +2/+0 until end of turn", and you draw a card since you control a modified creature thanks to Thundering Raiju's triggered ability.
Note that the sentence "If you control a modified creature, draw a card" on Ambitious Assault does not express a triggered ability. It doesn't mean "Whenever a creature you control becomes modified this turn, draw a card".
Hi, thank you for the swift and well-articulated response. I think I understand what you mean, and realize that there is an underlying question in my original post. Is it not true that if I do not respond to Thundering Raiju's triggered ability with the Ambitious Assault, and neither does my opponent, that there will be no opportunity to cast Ambitious Assault until combat is over? I guess that is where my question comes from: in the scenario I am afraid the creature that was modified by Raiju will die in combat, so I would like to benefit from the modification before combat (and of course after Raiju puts the token on it). Additionally, I would like the +2/0 that Ambitious Assault gives the creatures in the very same combat phase.
Is it not true that if I do not respond to Raiju's triggered ability with the Ambitious Assault, and neither does my opponent, that there will be no opportunity to cast Ambitious Assault until combat is over?
No. You can cast Ambitious Assault even if you control no modified creatures. (The spell doesn't say "Cast this spell only if you control a modified creature.) The spell checks whether you control a modified creature when it resolves (C.R. 608.2h); if you don't, it will still give "[c]reatures you control ... +2/+0 until end of turn". (Also, note that Thundering Raiju's triggered ability says "Thundering Raiju deals X damage to each opponent", not, say, "Thundering Raiju deals X damage to each creature".)
Is it not true that if I do not respond to Raiju's triggered ability with the Ambitious Assault, and neither does my opponent, that there will be no opportunity to cast Ambitious Assault until combat is over?
No. You can cast Ambitious Assault even if you control no modified creatures. (The spell doesn't say "Cast this spell only if you control a modified creature.) The spell checks whether you control a modified creature when it resolves (C.R. 608.2h); if you don't, it will still give "[c]reatures you control ... +2/+0 until end of turn". (Also, note that Thundering Raiju's triggered ability says "Thundering Raiju deals X damage to each opponent", not, say, "Thundering Raiju deals X damage to each creature".)
Right, but regardless of the specifics of Ambitious Assault, is there an opportunity to cast an instant and have it resolve after Thundering Raiju's triggered ability happens, and the actual combat phase (in which Raiju and the other creature attack, deal damage to blockers/the opponent)? Because that's where my confusion lies: it seems to me that I can cast Ambitious Assault in response to Raiju's triggered ability, but since it would go into the stack last, Ambitious Assault would check for modified creatures before Raiju's ability puts the token on a creature. That means that Ambitious Assault would give the +2/0 before the creatures deal their damage, but that it would not allow me to draw a card, since no creatures were modified at the time that Ambitious Assault's effect happened. Sorry if I'm not making sense.
Right, but regardless of the specifics of Ambitious Assault, is there an opportunity to cast an instant and have it resolve after Thundering Raiju's triggered ability happens, and the actual combat phase (in which Raiju and the other creature attack, deal damage to blockers/the opponent)? Because that's where my confusion lies: it seems to me that I can cast Ambitious Assault in response to Raiju's triggered ability, but since it would go into the stack last, Ambitious Assault would check for modified creatures before Raiju's ability puts the token on a creature. That means that Ambitious Assault would give the +2/0 before the creatures deal their damage, but that it would not allow me to draw a card, since no creatures were modified at the time that Ambitious Assault's effect happened. Sorry if I'm not making sense.
What you want is possible. The combat phase is broken into several steps. During each step, each player has to pass priority without taking action for the game to proceed. Begining Combat, Declare attackers, Declare Blockers, Combat damage, End of combat are the steps. Once you and your opponent allow the Raiju's ability to resolve you both have to do nothing again before the game will move from the declare attackers to the declare blockers step. So you have the opportunity to cast Ambitions Assault in the declare attackers step. You would then get a chance to cast it in the declare blockers step. All before the damage is dealt in the combat damage step
There two opportunities to cast Ambitious Assault after the Raiju trigger resolved and before combat damage is dealt. The first one is right after that trigger has resolved, still in the declare attackers step, so before blockers are declared. The second opportunity is after blockers have been declared in the declare blockers step, which would also usually be the more advantageous time to cast the spell, since your opponent has to decide blocks without knowing that it's coming.
Remember, that combat has an order to it, with all players being able to do stuff in between the combat steps' turn based actions (declaring attackers, declaring blockers, combat damage). Also remember, that no step or phase, where a player gets priority, ends until all players pass priority in succession while the stack is empty. Just the Stack becoming empty is not enough.
The combat phase's steps are:
1) Begining of combat - Last chance to create additional attackers (like crewing a vehicle or animating a land) or removing potential attackers before attackers get declared, "at the begining of the combat phase" triggers happen here, and player cam do stuff.
2) Declare attackers step - First, the active player declares attackers, then any triggers from those go on the stack, then players can do stuff. Last chance to create additional blockers or removing potential blockers, or to give/remove evasion abilities.
3) Declare blockers step - First, the defending player(s) declare their blockers, then any triggers from thast go on the stack, then players can do stuff. Last chance to influence combat damage or remove creature before combat damage happens.
4) Combat damage step - First, combat damage is assigned and dealt. After the board state is cleared up (creature die, players lose the game, etc.) come the triggers from that, and players can do stuff.
5) End of combat step - Usually nothing happens here, but there are some "at the end of combat" triggers that go off here. And player can do stuff here for the last time before combat ends.
Thanks you guys, I think I'm starting to wrap my head around it. I have tried to study a bit more about when I'm allowed to cast instants, and I have a better grasp of the cards I mentioned. Thanks for all your elaborate advice!
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I recently encountered the following game situation that confused me a bit, and I hope someone here can help me out - and that I am posting in the correct subforum.
I had a Thundering Raiju on the board, as well as another creature. I declared these two creatures as attackers, and then cast the instant Ambitious Assault.
My question is: would, in this case, the effect of Thundering Raiju trigger first, or would Amibtious Assault trigger first? I am still a beginner and my understanding is that the triggered ability and this instant would momentarily be on the stack together, with the instant being cast last, and therefore it should trigger first. The order is important, because if Thundering Raiju triggers first, his ability would allow me to put a +1/+1 counter on one of my creatures, allowing me to draw a card because of Ambitious Assault (which draws a card if there if I control a modified creature).
Apologies if my wording is vague. As I said, I am just starting out and am still trying to wrap my head around these kind of cases. In any case, many thanks in advance for any advice!
Hi and welcome to MTGSalvation! I replaced the brackets and links to Scryfall by card tags, which is our "house method" to show cards. Please check your private messages to learn how to use them. -MadMage
Note that the sentence "If you control a modified creature, draw a card" on Ambitious Assault does not express a triggered ability. It doesn't mean "Whenever a creature you control becomes modified this turn, draw a card".
Right, but regardless of the specifics of Ambitious Assault, is there an opportunity to cast an instant and have it resolve after Thundering Raiju's triggered ability happens, and the actual combat phase (in which Raiju and the other creature attack, deal damage to blockers/the opponent)? Because that's where my confusion lies: it seems to me that I can cast Ambitious Assault in response to Raiju's triggered ability, but since it would go into the stack last, Ambitious Assault would check for modified creatures before Raiju's ability puts the token on a creature. That means that Ambitious Assault would give the +2/0 before the creatures deal their damage, but that it would not allow me to draw a card, since no creatures were modified at the time that Ambitious Assault's effect happened. Sorry if I'm not making sense.
Remember, that combat has an order to it, with all players being able to do stuff in between the combat steps' turn based actions (declaring attackers, declaring blockers, combat damage). Also remember, that no step or phase, where a player gets priority, ends until all players pass priority in succession while the stack is empty. Just the Stack becoming empty is not enough.
The combat phase's steps are:
1) Begining of combat - Last chance to create additional attackers (like crewing a vehicle or animating a land) or removing potential attackers before attackers get declared, "at the begining of the combat phase" triggers happen here, and player cam do stuff.
2) Declare attackers step - First, the active player declares attackers, then any triggers from those go on the stack, then players can do stuff. Last chance to create additional blockers or removing potential blockers, or to give/remove evasion abilities.
3) Declare blockers step - First, the defending player(s) declare their blockers, then any triggers from thast go on the stack, then players can do stuff. Last chance to influence combat damage or remove creature before combat damage happens.
4) Combat damage step - First, combat damage is assigned and dealt. After the board state is cleared up (creature die, players lose the game, etc.) come the triggers from that, and players can do stuff.
5) End of combat step - Usually nothing happens here, but there are some "at the end of combat" triggers that go off here. And player can do stuff here for the last time before combat ends.
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