The specific adventure card that I'm about to ask about is not normally a legal card, even in casual formats, but the broader question isn't limited to that particular card. It's a general question about adventure cards and how they work. The card I want to know about is Champions of Archery, which is a Heroes of the Realm card. I have of proxy of it in one of my casual decks. Since this isn't, or at least isn't usually, a legal Magic card, there are likely no official rulings on it. However, the mechanics of adventure cards should be clearly defined.
If I have Champions of Archery in my hand, can I use the adventure (instant) side of it to cast the creature side of it from my hand? (I understand that I can't use both sides of the card at the same time, but in this case I'm only using the adventure side. I'm not casting the creature side.)
Edit: For clarification, would the card go to the command zone, leaving no valid target to be exiled?
Trying to put a card from your hand into play while casting it would be like casting brainstorm and trying to put that same brainstorm on top of your library with its own effect.
No, does not work. It is on the stack when it is being cast and goes into exile right afterward.
In general, you can cast an adventurer card such as Champions of the Realm either normally (e.g., as Champions of the Realm) or as an Adventure (e.g., as Join the Group) (C.R. 716.3).
There are limited cases where something can restrict how you can cast an adventurer card; the most notable is C.R. 716.3d.
Trying to put a card from your hand into play while casting it would be like casting brainstorm and trying to put that same brainstorm on top of your library with its own effect.
No, does not work. It is on the stack when it is being cast and goes into exile right afterward.
That's a great explanation. Very clear. Just out of curiosity, though. What would happen if I attempted to imprint the adventure/sorcery side of Champions of Archery on Panoptic mirror, then used a card like Pull From Eternity or Riftsweeper to return the card from the exile zone. If I could manage to get Champions of Archery back into my hand again, could I use Panoptic Mirror's ability to put it into the command zone?
716.4. In every zone except the stack, and while on the stack not as an Adventure, an adventurer card
has only its normal characteristics.
Panoptic Mirror's ability can only exile an instant or sorcery card, not a Legendary Creature - Human Archer.
Also, using something like Pull From Eternity or Riftsweeper to retrieve a card from exile will mean that card is no longer "exiled". (A copy already on the stack will remain on the stack and probably resolve soon.)
607.2a If an object has an activated or triggered ability printed on it that instructs a player to exile
one or more cards and an ability printed on it that refers either to “the exiled cards” or to cards
“exiled with [this object],” these abilities are linked. The second ability refers only to cards in
the exile zone that were put there as a result of an instruction to exile them in the first ability.
You would probably have to do something like cast it as an adventure, copy it somehow, return the original to your hand with something like Remand, and then let the copy resolve.
You would probably have to do something like cast it as an adventure, copy it somehow, return the original to your hand with something like Remand, and then let the copy resolve.
Just to make sure that I understand what you're saying... I cast Doublecast, then cast Champions of Archery as an adventure. A copy of the adventure spell is put on the stack, and I choose Champions of Archery as the target for that copy of the spell. I then cast Remand, which counters the original adventure spell and puts Champions of Archery back into my hand. Now Champions of Archery is in my hand, and I let the copy of the adventure spell which is on the stack resolve. The target of that copy of the original spell is Champions of Archery, which is put into the command zone from my hand. Is that the idea?
Just to make sure that I understand what you're saying... I cast Doublecast, then cast Champions of Archery as an adventure. A copy of the adventure spell is put on the stack, and I choose Champions of Archery as the target for that copy of the spell.
Join the Group doesn't have a target. (Even if you could target the original card on the stack, it would be gone from there by the time the copy resolves. [CR400.7])
115.10. Spells and abilities can affect objects and players they don’t target. In general, those objects and
players aren’t chosen until the spell or ability resolves. See rule 608, “Resolving Spells and
Abilities.”
115.10a Just because an object or player is being affected by a spell or ability doesn’t make that
object or player a target of that spell or ability. Unless that object or player is identified by the
word “target” in the text of that spell or ability, or the rule for that keyword ability, it’s not a
target.
I then cast Remand, which counters the original adventure spell and puts Champions of Archery back into my hand. Now Champions of Archery is in my hand, and I let the copy of the adventure spell which is on the stack resolve. The target of that copy of the original spell is Champions of Archery, which is put into the command zone from my hand. Is that the idea?
At that time you choose a legendary creature card in your hand as part of the instructions of the resolving spell. And the one you choose can be the card that recently returned to your hand.
608. Resolving Spells and Abilities
608.2d If an effect of a spell or ability offers any choices other than choices already made as part of
casting the spell, activating the ability, or otherwise putting the spell or ability on the stack, the
player announces these while applying the effect. The player can’t choose an option that’s
illegal or impossible, with the exception that having a library with no cards in it doesn’t make
drawing a card an impossible action (see rule 121.3). If an effect divides or distributes
something, such as damage or counters, as a player chooses among any number of untargeted
players and/or objects, the player chooses the amount and division such that each chosen player
or object receives at least one of whatever is being divided. (Note that if an effect divides or
distributes something, such as damage or counters, as a player chooses among some number of
target objects and/or players, the amount and division were determined as the spell or ability
was put onto the stack rather than at this time; see rule 601.2d.)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Why bother with mere rulings when so many answers can be found in the Rules?
Join the Group doesn't have a target. (Even if you could target the original card on the stack, it would be gone from there by the time the copy resolves. [CR400.7])
I then cast Remand, which counters the original adventure spell and puts Champions of Archery back into my hand. Now Champions of Archery is in my hand, and I let the copy of the adventure spell which is on the stack resolve. The target of that copy of the original spell is Champions of Archery, which is put into the command zone from my hand. Is that the idea?
At that time you choose a legendary creature card in your hand as part of the instructions of the resolving spell. And the one you choose can be the card that recently returned to your hand.
608. Resolving Spells and Abilities
608.2d If an effect of a spell or ability offers any choices other than choices already made as part of
casting the spell, activating the ability, or otherwise putting the spell or ability on the stack, the
player announces these while applying the effect.....
Join the Group doesn't have a target. Understood. But if I'm understanding correctly, when Join the Group resolves, it IS possible for me to choose the card that was returned to my hand as the legendary creature that I want to put into the command zone. So... you're saying that this works?
Join the Group doesn't have a target, but the combo still works?
Join the Group doesn't have a target. Understood. But if I'm understanding correctly, when Join the Group resolves, it IS possible for me to choose the card that was returned to my hand as the legendary creature that I want to put into the command zone. So... you're saying that this works?
Yes.
"You may put a legendary creature card from your hand into the command zone. It’s also your commander."
There is no requirement that the card has been in your hand a certain amount of time. There is no requirement that it not be named "Champions of Archery" or that it not have an adventure.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Why bother with mere rulings when so many answers can be found in the Rules?
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The specific adventure card that I'm about to ask about is not normally a legal card, even in casual formats, but the broader question isn't limited to that particular card. It's a general question about adventure cards and how they work. The card I want to know about is Champions of Archery, which is a Heroes of the Realm card. I have of proxy of it in one of my casual decks. Since this isn't, or at least isn't usually, a legal Magic card, there are likely no official rulings on it. However, the mechanics of adventure cards should be clearly defined.
If I have Champions of Archery in my hand, can I use the adventure (instant) side of it to cast the creature side of it from my hand? (I understand that I can't use both sides of the card at the same time, but in this case I'm only using the adventure side. I'm not casting the creature side.)
Edit: For clarification, would the card go to the command zone, leaving no valid target to be exiled?
No, does not work. It is on the stack when it is being cast and goes into exile right afterward.
There are limited cases where something can restrict how you can cast an adventurer card; the most notable is C.R. 716.3d.
See also the following:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-rulings/816057-minds-dilation-and-adventure-cards
No.
Panoptic Mirror's ability can only exile an instant or sorcery card, not a Legendary Creature - Human Archer.
Also, using something like Pull From Eternity or Riftsweeper to retrieve a card from exile will mean that card is no longer "exiled". (A copy already on the stack will remain on the stack and probably resolve soon.)
You would probably have to do something like cast it as an adventure, copy it somehow, return the original to your hand with something like Remand, and then let the copy resolve.
Join the Group doesn't have a target. (Even if you could target the original card on the stack, it would be gone from there by the time the copy resolves. [CR400.7])
At that time you choose a legendary creature card in your hand as part of the instructions of the resolving spell. And the one you choose can be the card that recently returned to your hand.
Join the Group doesn't have a target, but the combo still works?
Yes.
"You may put a legendary creature card from your hand into the command zone. It’s also your commander."
There is no requirement that the card has been in your hand a certain amount of time. There is no requirement that it not be named "Champions of Archery" or that it not have an adventure.