Hello,
the ability of Ziatora, the Incinerator raised some questions regarding when to declare the target, whether the sacrifice is part of the cost and when do players get priority.
As far as i know players can only respond to spells or abilities after they are placed onto the stack. Players are not able to respond while they are resolving. For example in the case of Expropriate its not possible to respond after voting started, but only before.
In the case of Ziatora, I assume that the following happens:
Sacrificing is not part of a cost. So when the ability triggers, players do get priority and the ability is put on the stack.
See "603.5. Some triggered abilities’ effects are optional (they contain “may,” as in “At the beginning of your upkeep, you may draw a card”). These abilities go on the stack when they trigger, regardless of whether their controller intends to exercise the ability’s option or not. The choice is made when the ability resolves. ..."
After everyone passes priority the ability resolves and then a creature may be sacrificed. If a creature gets sacrificed player will not get priority again, because this happens during an objecs resoltion.
So far, is that correct?
Now im not sure about the declaration of the target, because of the wording "when you do...". Usually targets are declared when a spell is cast. In this case is a target only declared when the player has chosen to sacrifice a creature or does it have to be declared before players get priority? So players are effectively able to respond to a possible target? I assume the latter applies.
Up until your last paragraph you are correct. However what you are missing is that the second part of the ability (When you do, ...) is a triggered ability that occurs if you sacrifice a creature. This will then go on the stack where you choose a target and all players get priority again before it resolves.
Ok, how is it possible to figure out whether another ability is triggered as part of an ability? Expropriate for example does not trigger another ability as far as i know.
I assume that this "when you do" expression is some sort of indicator that always triggers as a new ability. Are there other of those indicators?
Ziatora, the Incinerator kind of follows the wording of Connive on other cards in the set, which melts the keyword into a single block of text, even while there are multiple triggers in it.
The keywords to look for are "When/Whenever" that signal a trigger (Or "At the end of", "At the beginning of", and such).
If its a "if" its a replacement and not a trigger.
And if we have just a block of text with other instructions, they are to be followed after another (might even be "repeat this process" and the like, which is still a single trigger resolving).
This means in the case of exploit and Psychic Pickpocket there are also two possibilities to respond.
ETB -> connive triggers -> players get priority -> connives -> "when it connives..." triggers, declare target -> players get priority -> card is returned to hand.
Okay one last question.... usually you also get priority after an ability resolved. In those cases, lets just pick Ziatora, the Incinerator again, after the creature gets sacrificed do players also get priority before the second ability is placed on the stack or is the ability already on the top of the stack as soon as player get priority?
Okay one last question.... usually you also get priority after an ability resolved. In those cases, lets just pick Ziatora, the Incinerator again, after the creature gets sacrificed do players also get priority before the second ability is placed on the stack or is the ability already on the top of the stack as soon as player get priority?
The latter (C.R. 117.5). Observe also that the target for the "When you do" ability on Ziatora is chosen as the ability goes on the stack (C.R. 603.3d, 601.2c).
Triggers are always put on the stack before any player gets priority. Be it Beginning of step/phase triggers, death triggers, or imbedded triggers like this one here. You can respond to the trigger after they've been put on the stack, but not before then. Simply because you don't have priority to do anything, no matter, which player you are.
I'm really happy someone asked this question as was wondering the same thing while building my Ziatora EDH deck. I have followup question though, once i've sacrificed a creature, is the ability put on the stack still triggered or activated? Since, even if there is a "cost" of sacrificing a creature, there is no colon in the thext i suppose it's still considerred as triggered but i prefer to be sure...
I'm asking since i'd like to be able to copy it rather than the "you may sacrifice a creature" in order to copy the damage dealt. The second sacrifice might come in handy, but if a Strionic Resonator allows me to copy both i'd have a bit more modularity.
I'm really happy someone asked this question as was wondering the same thing while building my Ziatora EDH deck. I have followup question though, once i've sacrificed a creature, is the ability put on the stack still triggered or activated? Since, even if there is a "cost" of sacrificing a creature, there is no colon in the thext i suppose it's still considerred as triggered but i prefer to be sure...
I'm asking since i'd like to be able to copy it rather than the "you may sacrifice a creature" in order to copy the damage dealt. The second sacrifice might come in handy, but if a Strionic Resonator allows me to copy both i'd have a bit more modularity.
Ziatora has no activated abilities. Its second ability (which begins with "At") and the ability it generates (identified by "When you do, ...") are both triggered abilities (C.R. 603.1, 603.7; compare with C.R. 602.1).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
the ability of Ziatora, the Incinerator raised some questions regarding when to declare the target, whether the sacrifice is part of the cost and when do players get priority.
As far as i know players can only respond to spells or abilities after they are placed onto the stack. Players are not able to respond while they are resolving. For example in the case of Expropriate its not possible to respond after voting started, but only before.
In the case of Ziatora, I assume that the following happens:
Sacrificing is not part of a cost. So when the ability triggers, players do get priority and the ability is put on the stack.
See
"603.5. Some triggered abilities’ effects are optional (they contain “may,” as in “At the beginning of your upkeep, you may draw a card”). These abilities go on the stack when they trigger, regardless of whether their controller intends to exercise the ability’s option or not. The choice is made when the ability resolves. ..."
After everyone passes priority the ability resolves and then a creature may be sacrificed. If a creature gets sacrificed player will not get priority again, because this happens during an objecs resoltion.
So far, is that correct?
Now im not sure about the declaration of the target, because of the wording "when you do...". Usually targets are declared when a spell is cast. In this case is a target only declared when the player has chosen to sacrifice a creature or does it have to be declared before players get priority? So players are effectively able to respond to a possible target? I assume the latter applies.
I assume that this "when you do" expression is some sort of indicator that always triggers as a new ability. Are there other of those indicators?
Exploit: Sidisi's Faithful
Ziatora, the Incinerator kind of follows the wording of Connive on other cards in the set, which melts the keyword into a single block of text, even while there are multiple triggers in it.
Connive: Psychic Pickpocket
----
The keywords to look for are "When/Whenever" that signal a trigger (Or "At the end of", "At the beginning of", and such).
If its a "if" its a replacement and not a trigger.
And if we have just a block of text with other instructions, they are to be followed after another (might even be "repeat this process" and the like, which is still a single trigger resolving).
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
This means in the case of exploit and Psychic Pickpocket there are also two possibilities to respond.
ETB -> connive triggers -> players get priority -> connives -> "when it connives..." triggers, declare target -> players get priority -> card is returned to hand.
Okay one last question.... usually you also get priority after an ability resolved. In those cases, lets just pick Ziatora, the Incinerator again, after the creature gets sacrificed do players also get priority before the second ability is placed on the stack or is the ability already on the top of the stack as soon as player get priority?
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
I'm asking since i'd like to be able to copy it rather than the "you may sacrifice a creature" in order to copy the damage dealt. The second sacrifice might come in handy, but if a Strionic Resonator allows me to copy both i'd have a bit more modularity.