In a multiplayer game, suppose that I have Eye of the Storm in play and I cast Fractured Identity, targeting Eye of the Storm. What happens if I cast then Approach of the Second Sun? My copy of Eye of the Storm has been exiled, but each of my opponents has a copy. I have already achieved my first casting of Approach, and the card is placed in my library seventh from the top. I assume that my opponents can now cast any instant or sorcery spell and use their copy of Eye of the Storm to copy and cast Approach of the Second Sun, since I cast the spell with a physical card (that was removed from the game). (Copies made with Eye of the Storm, like copies made with Isochron Scepter, can be cast, and Approach requires casting.)
I'd like to know how my opponents' copies of Eye of the Storm would work. Until one of my opponents casts an instant or sorcery spell, I am the only one who has successfully cast Approach of the Second Sun. I believe that, as soon as one of my opponents casts an instant or sorcery spell, they will be able to copy and cast Approach, gaining their first successful casting of Approach. Let's say that Opponent A successfully does this. Opponent A has now successfully cast Approach once.
Let's consider a few possible scenarios:
1) Opponent B then casts an instant using their own token copy of Eye of the Storm to copy and cast Approach of the Second Sun. Does Opponent B get a single copy of Approach? Or two, winning the game, since Approach has been cast twice? Since Eye of the Storm says that players can copy and cast CARDS exiled with Eye of the Storm, I expect that Opponent B only gets to copy and cast Approach a single time, not twice. I expect that Opponent A's casting of Approach doesn't count since it wasn't hard cast from a physical card. Is that correct?
2) Suppose that before my opponents can cast another spell, I manage to steal one of their token copies of Eye of the Storm and cast an instant. Can I then copy and cast Approach for a second time to win the game? Or does the stolen copy of Eye of the Storm not work this way? Suppose that, instead of stealing an opponent's Eye of the Storm, I manage to retrieve mine from exile. If I then cast some unrelated instant, can I use the retrieved Eye of the Storm to copy and cast Approach for a second time, winning the game? Or does the retrieved card not work that way?
For purposes of these scenarios, spells cast with Eye of the Storm are cast from exile, not from players' hands (C.R. 707.12).
For this reason, when a player casts a copy of Approach of the Second Sun with Eye of the Storm, and that spell resolves, all that spell does is go to its owner's library seventh from the top and give its controller 7 life. (Note that Approach of the Second Sun says "If this spell was cast from your hand...", that is, if this particular spell was cast from its controller's hand [C.R. 109.5, 108.1].)
Thus, in none of the scenarios in questions 1 and 2 can a player win the game when Approach of the Second Sun is cast via Eye of the Storm and that spell resolves.
Your opening scenario is also off. If you cast Fractured Identity while an Eye of the Storm is out, it will get exiled before it has a chance to resolve. You supposedly have the only copy of the Eye at that time, so the Identity is exiled by that and you are given a copy to cast (along with copies of any other instant and sorcery currently exiled by the Eye). So you essentially cast a second Fractured Identity, which gets to resolve because Eye only cares about cards not copies of them. Each other player now gets an emptyEye of the Storm and whatever cards were exiled by your Eye stay in exile, unreachable by any of the cards mentioned in this thread.
If you then cast Approach of the Second Sun, all Eyes will trigger, and the last trigger to go on the stack will get to exile it, which is the copy controlled by the player next to you furthest away in turn order. You get a copy of the Approach now to cast. If it resolves, you get to place the copy into your library, where it will cease to exist shortly thereafter. All other Eye triggers still on the stack do nothing.
One note, if someone eventually manages to remove the Eye of the Storm or otherwise mess with its effect:
Any of those copies that were cast from exile can still satisfy the "... you've cast another spell named Approach of the Second Sun this game" part of the condition.
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Your opening scenario is also off. If you cast Fractured Identity while an Eye of the Storm is out, it will get exiled before it has a chance to resolve. You supposedly have the only copy of the Eye at that time, so the Identity is exiled by that and you are given a copy to cast (along with copies of any other instant and sorcery currently exiled by the Eye). So you essentially cast a second Fractured Identity, which gets to resolve because Eye only cares about cards not copies of them. Each other player now gets an emptyEye of the Storm and whatever cards were exiled by your Eye stay in exile, unreachable by any of the cards mentioned in this thread.
If you then cast Approach of the Second Sun, all Eyes will trigger, and the last trigger to go on the stack will get to exile it, which is the copy controlled by the player next to you furthest away in turn order. You get a copy of the Approach now to cast. If it resolves, you get to place the copy into your library, where it will cease to exist shortly thereafter. All other Eye triggers still on the stack do nothing.
Thank you, Peteroupc, for pointing out the fact that Approach of the Second Sun requires casting from the hand to win the game. I originally knew that, but forgot. Ironically, the fact that none of the players can win the game using copies made with Eye of the Storm actually makes the combo work better than I had hoped. So, this analysis is worth continuing...
To make sure that I've correctly understood your explanation, Rezzahan, I'm going to paraphrase it.
I cast Eye of the Storm. After it has resolved, I cast Fractured Identity targeting Eye of the storm. Eye of the Storm’s ability will exile Fractured Identity before it has a chance to resolve. My Eye of the Storm then gives me a copy of Fractured Identity to cast, if I want, along with a copy of any other instants that are currently exiled by Eye of the Storm. The copy of Fractured Identity created by Eye of the Storm resolves successfully because Eye of the Storm will only exile a physical card, not a copy.
Since the copy of Fractured Identity that Eye of the Storm created resolves successfully, it destroys my Eye of the Storm, and each other player now gets a copy of Eye of the Storm. However, my opponents’ copies of Eye of the Storm have no history of any instants or sorceries ever being cast. Since my Eye of the Storm is now in exile, none of the spells that were exiled by it are accessible by any of the permanents that are currently in play.
I now cast Approach of the Second Sun from my hand. All of my opponents’ copies of Eye of the Storm trigger, and the last trigger to go on the stack will get to exile the card. This is the copy controlled by the player next to me furthest away in turn order. Since this copy of Eye exiles Approach, the physical card won't go to my library. Only the copy of the card which is on the stack will go to my library, and it will cease to exist shortly after.
Assuming that the above is correct. Here's where I require clarification:
You say that all other Eye of the Storm triggers on the stack do nothing (because Eye is only triggered by physical cards, and the physical Approach of the Second Sun card has been exiled). Here's my question: The last trigger of Eye of the Storm to go on the stack exiles Approach of the Second Sun. That trigger, being last on the stack, will resolve first. This trigger just exiled the physical Approach card, so doesn't it get to make a copy of that card for it's controller to cast? Eye of the Storm says, "Whenever a player plays an instant or sorcery card, remove it from the game. Then that player copies each instant or sorcery card removed from the game with Eye of the Storm..." I would expect that at least one of my opponents gets a copy of Approach that they can cast. What am I missing?
You are the one that has cast the Aproach, so you are the one getting the copy. Nothing in Eye's text lets any other player get a copy, only the player who casts the spell that triggered the Eye gets copies of everything within. Who controls the Eye is irrelevant, it works the same for everyone under any player's control.
Eye of the Storm says, "Whenever a player plays an instant or sorcery card, remove it from the game. Then that player copies each instant or sorcery card removed from the game with Eye of the Storm..." I would expect that at least one of my opponents gets a copy of Approach that they can cast. What am I missing?
"Whenever a player casts an instant or sorcery card, exile it. Then that player copies each instant or sorcery card exiled with Eye of the Storm. For each copy, the player may cast the copy without paying its mana cost."
Only the player who cast an actual card gets to make and cast copies. For this first card, that's you, but Eye of the Storm will eventually trigger for spells cast by other players. (And that player will end up with copies of everything accumulated by each remaining Eye of the Storm.)
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You are the one that has cast the Aproach, so you are the one getting the copy. Nothing in Eye's text lets any other player get a copy, only the player who casts the spell that triggered the Eye gets copies of everything within. Who controls the Eye is irrelevant, it works the same for everyone under any player's control.
I see. I didn't read Eye of the Storm's ability carefully enough and assumed that if all of the Eye's trigger, all of the Eyes would make a copy. I now understand that, even though all of the Eyes trigger and one of them exiles Approach of the Second Sun, none of my opponents' Eyes can copy Approach.
I think I know the answer to this question, but I will ask it anyway to confirm that I'm not mistaken. If I were to substitute Panoptic Mirror for Eye of the Storm in this combo, imprinting Approach of the Second Sun on Panoptic Mirror, and later targeting Panoptic Mirror with Fractured Identity-- would my opponents' copies of Panoptic Mirror allow them to cast Approach? Panoptic Mirror's Oracle text reads, “At the beginning of your upkeep, you may copy a card exiled with Panoptic Mirror. If you do, you may cast the copy without paying its mana cost.”
I believe that "exiled with Panoptic Mirror" means exiled with YOUR copy of Panoptic Mirror, not with any Panoptic Mirror. Is that correct?
When a card refers to itself by name it only means [this object]. That's true even if the name gets changed somehow (like when becoming a copy of something else). If any object with a particular name is meant, the text will say "... named [something]", for example that Approach of the Second Sun.
I believe that "exiled with Panoptic Mirror" means exiled with YOUR copy of Panoptic Mirror, not with any Panoptic Mirror. Is that correct?
Yes.
201.4. Text that refers to the object it’s on by name means just that particular object and not any other objects with that name, regardless of any name changes caused by game effects.
607. Linked Abilities
607.1. An object may have two abilities printed on it such that one of them causes actions to be taken or objects or players to be affected and the other one directly refers to those actions, objects, or players. If so, these two abilities are linked: the second refers only to actions that were taken or objects or players that were affected by the first, and not by any other ability.
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In a multiplayer game, suppose that I have Eye of the Storm in play and I cast Fractured Identity, targeting Eye of the Storm. What happens if I cast then Approach of the Second Sun? My copy of Eye of the Storm has been exiled, but each of my opponents has a copy. I have already achieved my first casting of Approach, and the card is placed in my library seventh from the top. I assume that my opponents can now cast any instant or sorcery spell and use their copy of Eye of the Storm to copy and cast Approach of the Second Sun, since I cast the spell with a physical card (that was removed from the game). (Copies made with Eye of the Storm, like copies made with Isochron Scepter, can be cast, and Approach requires casting.)
I'd like to know how my opponents' copies of Eye of the Storm would work. Until one of my opponents casts an instant or sorcery spell, I am the only one who has successfully cast Approach of the Second Sun. I believe that, as soon as one of my opponents casts an instant or sorcery spell, they will be able to copy and cast Approach, gaining their first successful casting of Approach. Let's say that Opponent A successfully does this. Opponent A has now successfully cast Approach once.
Let's consider a few possible scenarios:
1) Opponent B then casts an instant using their own token copy of Eye of the Storm to copy and cast Approach of the Second Sun. Does Opponent B get a single copy of Approach? Or two, winning the game, since Approach has been cast twice? Since Eye of the Storm says that players can copy and cast CARDS exiled with Eye of the Storm, I expect that Opponent B only gets to copy and cast Approach a single time, not twice. I expect that Opponent A's casting of Approach doesn't count since it wasn't hard cast from a physical card. Is that correct?
2) Suppose that before my opponents can cast another spell, I manage to steal one of their token copies of Eye of the Storm and cast an instant. Can I then copy and cast Approach for a second time to win the game? Or does the stolen copy of Eye of the Storm not work this way? Suppose that, instead of stealing an opponent's Eye of the Storm, I manage to retrieve mine from exile. If I then cast some unrelated instant, can I use the retrieved Eye of the Storm to copy and cast Approach for a second time, winning the game? Or does the retrieved card not work that way?
For this reason, when a player casts a copy of Approach of the Second Sun with Eye of the Storm, and that spell resolves, all that spell does is go to its owner's library seventh from the top and give its controller 7 life. (Note that Approach of the Second Sun says "If this spell was cast from your hand...", that is, if this particular spell was cast from its controller's hand [C.R. 109.5, 108.1].)
Thus, in none of the scenarios in questions 1 and 2 can a player win the game when Approach of the Second Sun is cast via Eye of the Storm and that spell resolves.
If you then cast Approach of the Second Sun, all Eyes will trigger, and the last trigger to go on the stack will get to exile it, which is the copy controlled by the player next to you furthest away in turn order. You get a copy of the Approach now to cast. If it resolves, you get to place the copy into your library, where it will cease to exist shortly thereafter. All other Eye triggers still on the stack do nothing.
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(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
Any of those copies that were cast from exile can still satisfy the "... you've cast another spell named Approach of the Second Sun this game" part of the condition.
To make sure that I've correctly understood your explanation, Rezzahan, I'm going to paraphrase it.
I cast Eye of the Storm. After it has resolved, I cast Fractured Identity targeting Eye of the storm. Eye of the Storm’s ability will exile Fractured Identity before it has a chance to resolve. My Eye of the Storm then gives me a copy of Fractured Identity to cast, if I want, along with a copy of any other instants that are currently exiled by Eye of the Storm. The copy of Fractured Identity created by Eye of the Storm resolves successfully because Eye of the Storm will only exile a physical card, not a copy.
Since the copy of Fractured Identity that Eye of the Storm created resolves successfully, it destroys my Eye of the Storm, and each other player now gets a copy of Eye of the Storm. However, my opponents’ copies of Eye of the Storm have no history of any instants or sorceries ever being cast. Since my Eye of the Storm is now in exile, none of the spells that were exiled by it are accessible by any of the permanents that are currently in play.
I now cast Approach of the Second Sun from my hand. All of my opponents’ copies of Eye of the Storm trigger, and the last trigger to go on the stack will get to exile the card. This is the copy controlled by the player next to me furthest away in turn order. Since this copy of Eye exiles Approach, the physical card won't go to my library. Only the copy of the card which is on the stack will go to my library, and it will cease to exist shortly after.
Assuming that the above is correct. Here's where I require clarification:
You say that all other Eye of the Storm triggers on the stack do nothing (because Eye is only triggered by physical cards, and the physical Approach of the Second Sun card has been exiled). Here's my question: The last trigger of Eye of the Storm to go on the stack exiles Approach of the Second Sun. That trigger, being last on the stack, will resolve first. This trigger just exiled the physical Approach card, so doesn't it get to make a copy of that card for it's controller to cast? Eye of the Storm says, "Whenever a player plays an instant or sorcery card, remove it from the game. Then that player copies each instant or sorcery card removed from the game with Eye of the Storm..." I would expect that at least one of my opponents gets a copy of Approach that they can cast. What am I missing?
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
"Whenever a player casts an instant or sorcery card, exile it. Then that player copies each instant or sorcery card exiled with Eye of the Storm. For each copy, the player may cast the copy without paying its mana cost."
Only the player who cast an actual card gets to make and cast copies. For this first card, that's you, but Eye of the Storm will eventually trigger for spells cast by other players. (And that player will end up with copies of everything accumulated by each remaining Eye of the Storm.)
Thank you for clarifying this for me!
I believe that "exiled with Panoptic Mirror" means exiled with YOUR copy of Panoptic Mirror, not with any Panoptic Mirror. Is that correct?
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
Yes.