I've recently made a Gyruda, Doom of Depths deck, which I absolutely love. Now with the new Jumpstart set I saw a new interesting card for mill, which is Bruvac the Grandiloquent. Bruvac has a replacement effect that causes opponents to mill double the amount of cards they would mill due to a spell or ability. My question is if I have Bruvac on the field when Gyruda ETBs, will I be able to choose a creature with an even cmc from among the 8 cards that are milled instead, or still only the first four? My assumption is from the 8, but I wanted to be sure
Yes, you'll be able to pick a creature from the 8, since Bruvac's ability is a replacement effect that modifies Gyruda's effect. The 8 cards will be "those cards", those cards that Gyruda made them mill.
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I'm a former judge (lapsed), who keeps up to date on rules and policy. Keep in mind that judges' answers aren't necessarily more valid than those of people who aren't judges; what matters is we can quote the rules to back up our answers. When in doubt, ask for such quotes.
The 8 cards will be "those cards", those cards that Gyruda made them mill.
I certainly agree with this response.
However, I'm at a loss as to which rule actually states this; the only rules I found are 614.1 & 614.6, but I find those unsatisfactory: it is not clear to me that they lead to the conclusion that 'those cards' will hereafter apply all 8 cards.
I believe WoC should rebuff those rules to make things more clear.
(or perhaps there is another rule I missed)
I think we should wait for the new CR updates and card errata to bother trying to continue this conversation. This situation doesn't technically even exist yet since the cards aren't released. Things like Sphinx's Tutelage and Grindstone apparently will receive errata so it is possible Gyruda will too.
608.2c The controller of the spell or ability follows its instructions in the order written. However, replacement effects may modify these actions. In some cases, later text on the card may modify the meaning of earlier text (for example, “Destroy target creature. It can’t be regenerated” or “Counter target spell. If that spell is countered this way, put it on top of its owner’s library instead of into its owner’s graveyard.”) Don’t just apply effects step by step without thinking in these cases—read the whole text and apply the rules of English to the text.
Under the rules of English, what else could "those cards" refer to?
If a player is instructed to put a card into their graveyard without using the word "mill," Bruvac's ability doesn't apply.
Many cards printed before the Core Set 2021 release have received errata to instruct a player to mill cards rather than to put the top cards of their library into their graveyard. Use the Oracle card reference at Gatherer.Wizards.com to determine whether a specific card has received such errata. As a rule of thumb, if an effect instructs a player to look at or reveal a card before it's put into its owner's graveyard, it's unlikely to have received errata.
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Why bother with mere rulings when so many answers can be found in the Rules?
So since Gyruda now uses the "mill" phrasing, MadMageQc's answer stands, and is very clear that Bruvac's amendments work.
New gametext: When Gyruda enters the battlefield, each player mills four cards. Put a creature card with an even converted mana cost from among the milled cards onto the battlefield under your control.
Yes, you'll be able to pick a creature from the 8, since Bruvac's ability is a replacement effect that modifies Gyruda's effect. The 8 cards will be "those cards", those cards that Gyruda made them mill.
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I've recently made a Gyruda, Doom of Depths deck, which I absolutely love. Now with the new Jumpstart set I saw a new interesting card for mill, which is Bruvac the Grandiloquent. Bruvac has a replacement effect that causes opponents to mill double the amount of cards they would mill due to a spell or ability. My question is if I have Bruvac on the field when Gyruda ETBs, will I be able to choose a creature with an even cmc from among the 8 cards that are milled instead, or still only the first four? My assumption is from the 8, but I wanted to be sure
However, I'm at a loss as to which rule actually states this; the only rules I found are 614.1 & 614.6, but I find those unsatisfactory: it is not clear to me that they lead to the conclusion that 'those cards' will hereafter apply all 8 cards.
I believe WoC should rebuff those rules to make things more clear.
(or perhaps there is another rule I missed)
Any comments?
RULES OF MAGIC :
http://magic.wizards.com/en/game-info/gameplay/rules-and-formats/rules
https://twitter.com/EliShffrn/status/1274201913777479680
Under the rules of English, what else could "those cards" refer to?
Gyruda would need errata anyway for Bruvac to matter; it doesn't currently use the word "mill".
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/core-set-2021-and-jumpstart-release-notes-2020-06-20
New gametext: When Gyruda enters the battlefield, each player mills four cards. Put a creature card with an even converted mana cost from among the milled cards onto the battlefield under your control.