I'm wondering about the timing of Madness and when it triggers, more precisely, when discarded as an additional cost.
- I want to cast Cathartic Reunion , as I can choose in which order to pay the full cost, I decide to discard first. Anje's Ravager is one of the card that I discard. When do the trigger goes on the stack for me to cast it for it's madness cost? Can I pay for the madness cost right in the middle that I'm paying for Cathartic Reunion? And if so, what happens if I don't have enough mana left to cast Cathartic Reunion?
- If not, I'm guessing only once fully cast does the Madness trigger goes on the stack, so both Cathartic Reunion and the Madness trigger goes on the stack at the same time. Can I choose which resolves first?
In general, if an triggered ability (such as madness) triggers as you pay the cost of a spell (such as Cathartic Reunion), that ability will go on the stack on top of that spell and get to resolve before it (C.R. 702.34a, 405.2, 117.4). See also this thread.
Also, if you discard a card with madness as you pay Cathartic Reunion's cost, you don't choose to cast that card immediately, but rather when the madness triggered ability resolves (C.R. 702.34a, 603.2). Although reminder text for madness as printed in some cards, such as Call to the Netherworld in Time Spiral, may suggest otherwise, that text has no game function and is not necessarily as rigorous as the comprehensive rules (C.R. 207.2, 207.2a).
- I want to cast Cathartic Reunion , as I can choose in which order to pay the full cost, I decide to discard first. Anje's Ravager is one of the card that I discard. When do the trigger goes on the stack for me to cast it for it's madness cost?
The next time a player gets priority, which will be after you cast Cathartic Reunion (C.R. 601.2i, 117.5).
Can I pay for the madness cost right in the middle that I'm paying for Cathartic Reunion?
No, since madness doesn't do anything right when it triggers (C.R. 603.2, 702.34a). You can't cast any spells while paying the cost of another spell (review C.R. 601.2h).
- If not, I'm guessing only once fully cast does the Madness trigger goes on the stack, so both Cathartic Reunion and the Madness trigger goes on the stack at the same time.
No; as part of casting a spell such as Cathartic Reunion, you put that spell on the stack before paying its costs (C.R. 601.2a, 601.2h).
So, Madness is a replacement effect and a trigger. The replacement effect happens when the event in question happens even if it is in the middle of casting a spell. The trigger will trigger at that time but will wait for an appropriate time before going on the stack, such as waiting for you to finish the process of casting a spell or resolving an effect. Once the trigger is on the stack each player gains and passes priority before it resolves allowing you to cast the madness card.
You declare you are casting Cathartic Reunion. You move it to the stack and announce if you are using any alternative casting costs.
You produce mana, at least 1R
You pay costs in whatever order you choose. At this time you discard Anje's Ravager, normally you discard to the graveyard but because it has madness you discard to exile. Anje's Ravager's madness ability triggers but waits off to the side while you finish paying costs.
Cathartic Reunion is now on the stack so statebased actions are checked and we see a trigger waiting to be put on the stack.
The relevant trigger is put on the stack and priority is given to the active player.
Assuming everyone passes the trigger resolves allowing you to cast Anje's Ravager. It moves from exile to the stack and you follow proper casting procedures and then the active player gains priority.
Assuming everyone passes the Ravager resolves and the active player gains priority.
Assuming everyone passes Cathartic Reunion finally resolves and the active player gains priority.
I'm wondering about the timing of Madness and when it triggers, more precisely, when discarded as an additional cost.
- I want to cast Cathartic Reunion , as I can choose in which order to pay the full cost, I decide to discard first. Anje's Ravager is one of the card that I discard. When do the trigger goes on the stack for me to cast it for it's madness cost? Can I pay for the madness cost right in the middle that I'm paying for Cathartic Reunion? And if so, what happens if I don't have enough mana left to cast Cathartic Reunion?
- If not, I'm guessing only once fully cast does the Madness trigger goes on the stack, so both Cathartic Reunion and the Madness trigger goes on the stack at the same time. Can I choose which resolves first?
Also, if you discard a card with madness as you pay Cathartic Reunion's cost, you don't choose to cast that card immediately, but rather when the madness triggered ability resolves (C.R. 702.34a, 603.2). Although reminder text for madness as printed in some cards, such as Call to the Netherworld in Time Spiral, may suggest otherwise, that text has no game function and is not necessarily as rigorous as the comprehensive rules (C.R. 207.2, 207.2a).
The next time a player gets priority, which will be after you cast Cathartic Reunion (C.R. 601.2i, 117.5).
No, since madness doesn't do anything right when it triggers (C.R. 603.2, 702.34a). You can't cast any spells while paying the cost of another spell (review C.R. 601.2h).
No; as part of casting a spell such as Cathartic Reunion, you put that spell on the stack before paying its costs (C.R. 601.2a, 601.2h).
You declare you are casting Cathartic Reunion. You move it to the stack and announce if you are using any alternative casting costs.
You produce mana, at least 1R
You pay costs in whatever order you choose. At this time you discard Anje's Ravager, normally you discard to the graveyard but because it has madness you discard to exile. Anje's Ravager's madness ability triggers but waits off to the side while you finish paying costs.
Cathartic Reunion is now on the stack so statebased actions are checked and we see a trigger waiting to be put on the stack.
The relevant trigger is put on the stack and priority is given to the active player.
Assuming everyone passes the trigger resolves allowing you to cast Anje's Ravager. It moves from exile to the stack and you follow proper casting procedures and then the active player gains priority.
Assuming everyone passes the Ravager resolves and the active player gains priority.
Assuming everyone passes Cathartic Reunion finally resolves and the active player gains priority.