I'm unsure what happens with mutating creatures onto manlands. If I activate the ability on Inkmoth Nexus and then mutate Sea-Dasher Octopus on top of it, what happens at end of turn when Inkmoth Nexus becomes a land again? Does it separate? Does my Sea-Dasher Octopus become a land that can be animated again with the activated ability?
It doesn't separate. Once Mutated, the cards remain merged no matter what; only changing zones can separate them.
Stop thinking about the cards as separated permanents. They are now one permanent only. Every effect that affected the original permanent now affects the merged permanent; start with the top permanent as the "base" (plus the abilities from the other cards, and nothing else from them), then add the effects that affected the original permanent, to figure out its characteristics.
If Sea-Dasher Octopus is on top, then you have a creature that is named Sea-Dasher Octopus, has all of Sea-Dasher's and Inkmoth's abilities, and is under the effect of "becomes a 1/1 Blinkmoth artifact creature with flying and infect until end of turn". When the turn ends, this effect ends, but you still have a Sea-Dasher Octopus creature (with Inkmoth's abilities). It is a creature, and it is not a land.
702.139e A mutated permanent has all abilities of each card and token that represents it. Its other characteristics are derived from the topmost card or token.
So with the Sea-Dasher Octopus card on top, you'll have a Sea-Dasher Octopus with the addition of the Inkmoth Nexus's abilities (the mana ability, and the ability that can make it a 1/1 flying Blinkmoth artifact creature with infect).
721.2c Because a merged permanent is the same object that it was before, it hasn’t just come under a player’s control, any continuous effects that affected it continue to do so, and so on.
This rule means, that the animation effect will still affect the merged permanent after the merger, so your Octopus will look like an animated Blinkmoth Nexus with the abilities of both cards and the abilities granted by the animation effect. And that's also what it will become if you activate the animation ability again.
If you put Parcelbeast under the nexus, will you have access to the activated ability even when the land isn’t animated? Wanted to confirm.
Yes, no part of being a land or not being a creature removes the existence of abilities.
With one very notable exception:
305.7 If an effect sets a land’s subtype to one or more of the basic land types, the land no longer has its old land type. It loses all abilities generated from its rules text, its old land types, and any copy effects affecting that land, and it gains the appropriate mana ability for each new basic land type. Note that this doesn’t remove any abilities that were granted to the land by other effects. Setting a land’s subtype doesn’t add or remove any card types (such as creature) or supertypes (such as basic, legendary, and snow) the land may have. If a land gains one or more land types in addition to its own, it keeps its land types and rules text, and it gains the new land types and mana abilities.
Note that in the specific case of Inkmoth Nexus, when it becomes a "Phyrexian Blinkmoth artifact creature" it will be a Phyrexian Blinkmoth and no other creature types "until end of turn" (C.R. 205.1b). Even if Sea-Dasher Octopus (an Octopus creature) merges on top of Inkmoth Nexus while the effect is active, the resulting permanent won't thereby be an Octopus until that effect wears off (but it will be an artifact creature "until end of turn") (C.R. 205.3m). This is because:
Merging a permanent is a copiable effect in layer 1, while the "Phyrexian Blinkmoth artifact creature" effect is layered on top of it, in layer 4 (C.R. 613.1a, 613.1d).
The effect specifically says the permanent becomes a "[creature type or types] artifact creature" (here, "Phyrexian Blinkmoth artifact creature") (C.R. 205.3m), as opposed to saying it becomes an "artifact creature" without specifying any creature types (C.R. 205.1b).
EDIT: Correction after comment 8 was posted (deleted "land" after "will be an artifact creature").
EDIT (Aug. 11, 2022): Edited to conform to updated text in Inkmoth Nexus.
Actually, it will not be a land, because the merged base permanent is not a land. 205.1b says, that prior card types are retained, the excepted card type is not added. E.g. "it's still a land" doesn't make the permanent a land if it wasn't a land before.
Actually, it will not be a land, because the merged base permanent is not a land. 205.1b says, that prior card types are retained, the excepted card type is not added. E.g. "it's still a land" doesn't make the permanent a land if it wasn't a land before.
205.1b Some effects change an object’s card type, supertype, or subtype but specify that the object
retains a prior card type, supertype, or subtype. In such cases, all the object’s prior card types,
supertypes, and subtypes are retained. This rule applies to effects that use the phrase “in
addition to its types” or that state that something is “still a [type, supertype, or subtype].” Some
effects state that an object becomes an “artifact creature”; these effects also allow the object to
retain all of its prior card types and subtypes. Some effects state that an object becomes a
“[creature type or types] artifact creature”; these effects also allow the object to retain all of its
prior card types and subtypes other than creature types, but replace any existing creature types.
Inkmoth Nexus' effect uses the "still a [type]" language so all the object’s prior card types,
supertypes, and subtypes are retained.
However, the effect also uses the "[creature type] artifact creature" language, so the object [is] to retain all of its prior card types and subtypes other than creature types.
Please tell me I'm crazy or just can't read.
Inkmoth Nexus' effect uses the "still a [type]" language so all the object’s prior card types,
supertypes, and subtypes are retained.
However, the effect also uses the "[creature type] artifact creature" language, so the object [is] to retain all of its prior card types and subtypes other than creature types.
Which is it?
The last sentence of C.R. 205.1b was added with the rules update for Throne of Eldraine. According to the update bulletin for that set, the sentence is intended to modify the "artifact creature" exception to the general rule that if "an object is said to become a certain list of types, these overwrite any other types it has" (review C.R. 205.1a). The ambiguity you point out, which affects Inkmoth Nexus (as well as Blinkmoth Nexus, Dread Statuary, Frostwalk Bastion, Mishra's Factory, and Stalking Stones), may be an unintended result of this rule change. In that case, you should point it out to the rules manager, Eli Shiffrin.
EDIT (Dec. 3): Edited because Eli Shiffrin is no longer the rules manager.
The last sentence of C.R. 205.1b was added with the rules update for Throne of Eldraine. According to the update bulletin for that set, the sentence is intended to modify the "artifact creature" exception to the general rule that if "an object is said to become a certain list of types, these overwrite any other types it has" (review C.R. 205.1a).
Thank you.
I was leaning towards the last sentence controlling based on the general principle that when two rules exist for one event the stricter/more restrictive of the two controls. Based on the new information that the last sentence is the most recent addition to the rule, that cinches it for me.
I am wondering something to this effect, sorry for threadjacking - its not in any way tangential!
So, Sea-Dasher Octopus has mutated onto an animated Inkmoth Nexus. Congrats, you've done that part and now your Octopus has infect and flying. Does that infect and flying last "until end of turn", as per the text of the animation ability for Nexus (to be activated later at the behest of the controller of the Octopus), or is it indefinite, not requiring any sort of re-activation of that ability? Also, if that ability is activated again, does the Octopus become a 1/1 as well as gaining the relevant keywords (and for how long?), or is that part ignored?
When Inkmoth Nexus's last ability resolves, Inkmoth Nexus will, until end of turn—
be a Phyrexian Blinkmoth artifact creature in addition to its other types (except it will have no creature types other than Phyrexian and Blinkmoth) (C.R. 613.1d; see comment 7),
gain flying and infect (C.R. 613.1f), and
have base power and toughness 1/1 (C.R. 613.1g, 613.3b).
If Sea-Dasher Octopus "mutates" on top of Inkmoth Nexus before that effect ends, the resulting permanent will have Sea-Dasher Octopus's copiable values, except the resulting permanent—
will retain Inkmoth Nexus's usual abilities (its two activated abilities) (C.R. 613.1a),
will continue to be a Phyrexian Blinkmoth artifact creature in addition to its other types until end of turn (except it will have no creature types other than Phyrexian and Blinkmoth) (C.R. 613.1d, 203.1b; see comment 7),
will continue to have flying and infect until end of turn (C.R. 613.1f), and
will continue to have base power and toughness 1/1 (not 2/2) until end of turn (C.R. 613.1g, 613.4b).
Note, in particular, that the effect making Inkmoth Nexus "a 1/1 Phyrexian Blinkmoth artifact creature with flying and infect" lasts until end of turn even after it mutates this way. When that effect wears off, that permanent—
will have Sea-Dasher Octopus's and Inkmoth Nexus's usual abilities (C.R. 613.1a),
will be a creature and no other card types and be an Octopus and no other creature types (C.R. 613.1d, 203.1b),
will no longer have flying and infect, and
will have base power and toughness 2/2.
Also, if that ability is activated again, does the Octopus become a 1/1 as well as gaining the relevant keywords (and for how long?), or is that part ignored?
The ability "1: Inkmoth Nexus becomes...", when it resolves, will make Sea-Dasher Octopus become "a 1/1 Phyrexian Blinkmoth artifact creature with flying and infect until end of turn", even if it's neither a land nor named Inkmoth Nexus (C.R. 201.4).
EDIT (Aug. 11, 2022): Edited to conform to updated text in Inkmoth Nexus.
Appreciate any feedback on this!
-BK-V
UWRUWR MidrangeUWR
BUGSultai MidrangeBUG
BUGRTraverse MidrangeBUGR (currently brewing)
Stop thinking about the cards as separated permanents. They are now one permanent only. Every effect that affected the original permanent now affects the merged permanent; start with the top permanent as the "base" (plus the abilities from the other cards, and nothing else from them), then add the effects that affected the original permanent, to figure out its characteristics.
If Sea-Dasher Octopus is on top, then you have a creature that is named Sea-Dasher Octopus, has all of Sea-Dasher's and Inkmoth's abilities, and is under the effect of "becomes a 1/1 Blinkmoth artifact creature with flying and infect until end of turn". When the turn ends, this effect ends, but you still have a Sea-Dasher Octopus creature (with Inkmoth's abilities). It is a creature, and it is not a land.
So with the Sea-Dasher Octopus card on top, you'll have a Sea-Dasher Octopus with the addition of the Inkmoth Nexus's abilities (the mana ability, and the ability that can make it a 1/1 flying Blinkmoth artifact creature with infect).
This rule means, that the animation effect will still affect the merged permanent after the merger, so your Octopus will look like an animated Blinkmoth Nexus with the abilities of both cards and the abilities granted by the animation effect. And that's also what it will become if you activate the animation ability again.
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
With one very notable exception:
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
EDIT: Correction after comment 8 was posted (deleted "land" after "will be an artifact creature").
EDIT (Aug. 11, 2022): Edited to conform to updated text in Inkmoth Nexus.
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
Inkmoth Nexus' effect uses the "still a [type]" language so all the object’s prior card types,
supertypes, and subtypes are retained.
However, the effect also uses the "[creature type] artifact creature" language, so the object [is] to retain all of its prior card types and subtypes other than creature types.
Which is it?
, Eli Shiffrin.EDIT (Dec. 3): Edited because Eli Shiffrin is no longer the rules manager.
I was leaning towards the last sentence controlling based on the general principle that when two rules exist for one event the stricter/more restrictive of the two controls. Based on the new information that the last sentence is the most recent addition to the rule, that cinches it for me.
So, Sea-Dasher Octopus has mutated onto an animated Inkmoth Nexus. Congrats, you've done that part and now your Octopus has infect and flying. Does that infect and flying last "until end of turn", as per the text of the animation ability for Nexus (to be activated later at the behest of the controller of the Octopus), or is it indefinite, not requiring any sort of re-activation of that ability? Also, if that ability is activated again, does the Octopus become a 1/1 as well as gaining the relevant keywords (and for how long?), or is that part ignored?
Thank you!
~Lil Kalki
Proud Disciple of the Church of the Wary
When Inkmoth Nexus's last ability resolves, Inkmoth Nexus will, until end of turn—
The ability "1: Inkmoth Nexus becomes...", when it resolves, will make Sea-Dasher Octopus become "a 1/1 Phyrexian Blinkmoth artifact creature with flying and infect until end of turn", even if it's neither a land nor named Inkmoth Nexus (C.R. 201.4).
EDIT (Aug. 11, 2022): Edited to conform to updated text in Inkmoth Nexus.
EDIT (Feb. 24, 2024): Correctness edit.