Hi, I recently built an EDH deck and one of the win cons is the Razacats combo using Razaketh, the Foulblooded to tutor up Leonin Relic-Warder and Animate Dead for infinite death triggers to kill with something like Blood Artist. I understand how the combo works, but there is one thing that i'm not 100% sure on. When you sac Leonin can you put his LTB trigger on the stack first then razaketh's tutor, or will razaketh's tutor go on the stack first automatically then Leonin's LTB. What has me confused is this section taken from Shapersavant's primer.
Simple Leonin Loop:
Summon Razaketh (3 creatures)
Sacrifice for Warder
Sacrifice for LED, cracking for and discarding Warder
Sacrifice for Animate Dead, reanimating Warder
Warder exiles Animate, trigger to sac Warder goes on the stack
Respond to the trigger by sacrificing Warder to Razaketh
Razakath's tutor goes on the stack, then Warder's death trigger goes on the stack
Warder's death trigger returns Animate recurring Warder
Loop to stack up infinite tutors gated by life (6 life spent before entering loop)
There are some key things to note about this loop:
You do not need Raza to sac Warder; if you allow the Animate Dead LTB trigger to resolve, Warder's LTB will return Animate returning Warder, creating an infinite death loop that costs no life.
You can use the reanimation enchantment that you used to reanimate Razaketh to perform the loop.
Leonin Loop off Razaketh's Animate Dead:
Summon Razaketh (2 creatures)
Sacrifice for LED, cracking for
Sacrifice to get and cast Warder
Warder exiles Raza's Animate
The trigger to sacrifice Raza goes on the stack
Respond to the trigger by sacrificing Warder to Razaketh
Put Warder's death trigger on the stack, then put Razakath's tutor on the stack
Tutor a card
Warder's death trigger returns Animate recurring Warder
Loop for infinite tutors as above. (4 life spent before entering loop)
The initial Animate Dead sacrifice trigger will remain on the bottom of the stack until after you've used the unbounded tutoring of the loop.
In the first example the tutor's go on the stack first and wont resolve until you break the loop correct? However in the second example he puts leonin's LTB trigger on the stack first then Razaketh's allowing you to get the card during the loop. Why is this the case?
When activating an ability, just like when casting a spell, you first put that ability on the stack and later pay the costs. This means, that any triggers from paying those costs has to go on top of that ability. Because the ability is already there, it is not waiting to be put on the stack. For this reason, the Razaketh tutor ability is on the bottom of the stack in the first example.
The second example is wrong. It violates the very principle I just explained. Razaketh's ability goes on the stack first, then is followed by the LTB trigger of the Warder. There is no choice of order here.
Simple Leonin Loop:
Summon Razaketh (3 creatures)
Sacrifice for Warder
Sacrifice for LED, cracking for and discarding Warder
Sacrifice for Animate Dead, reanimating Warder
Warder exiles Animate, trigger to sac Warder goes on the stack
Respond to the trigger by sacrificing Warder to Razaketh
Razakath's tutor goes on the stack, then Warder's death trigger goes on the stack
Warder's death trigger returns Animate recurring Warder
Loop to stack up infinite tutors gated by life (6 life spent before entering loop)
There are some key things to note about this loop:
You do not need Raza to sac Warder; if you allow the Animate Dead LTB trigger to resolve, Warder's LTB will return Animate returning Warder, creating an infinite death loop that costs no life.
You can use the reanimation enchantment that you used to reanimate Razaketh to perform the loop.
Leonin Loop off Razaketh's Animate Dead:
Summon Razaketh (2 creatures)
Sacrifice for LED, cracking for
Sacrifice to get and cast Warder
Warder exiles Raza's Animate
The trigger to sacrifice Raza goes on the stack
Respond to the trigger by sacrificing Warder to Razaketh
Put Warder's death trigger on the stack, then put Razakath's tutor on the stack
Tutor a card
Warder's death trigger returns Animate recurring Warder
Loop for infinite tutors as above. (4 life spent before entering loop)
The initial Animate Dead sacrifice trigger will remain on the bottom of the stack until after you've used the unbounded tutoring of the loop.
In the first example the tutor's go on the stack first and wont resolve until you break the loop correct? However in the second example he puts leonin's LTB trigger on the stack first then Razaketh's allowing you to get the card during the loop. Why is this the case?
The second example is wrong. It violates the very principle I just explained. Razaketh's ability goes on the stack first, then is followed by the LTB trigger of the Warder. There is no choice of order here.
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)