Hybrid mana symbols, monocolored hybrid mana symbols, and Phyrexian mana symbols do count toward your devotion to their color(s). (2013-09-15)
Thanks in advance.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Burning-Tree Emissary has two mana symbols that are red and/or green, so it adds 2 to your devotion to Red and Green.
700.5. A player's devotion to [color] is equal to the number of mana symbols of that color among the mana costs of permanents that player controls. A player's devotion to [color 1] and [color 2] is equal to the number of mana symbols among the mana costs of permanents that player controls that are [color 1], [color 2], or both colors.
Okay thanks. The wording is "number of mana symbols". It has 2 mana symbols. I still think the wording doesn't actually explain it adequately, but I thank you for the reference. If BTE were out it would count towards 2 red devotion and 2 green devotion separately, but not together then. Mathematically this bothers me as 2 and 2 are 4 together, not 2. Regardless, thank you.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
it would count towards 2 red devotion and 2 green devotion separately, but not together then. Mathematically this bothers me as 2 and 2 are 4 together, not 2.
The operative word is 'separately'.
Look at it this way: if you controlled both a Klothys, God of Destiny and a Xenagos, God of Revels, then a single Clan Guildmage would count a 2 devotion for Klothys and 2 devotion for Xenagos. That makes 4 devotion from one two-mana card. Nothing wrong with that.
Again I understand the ruling but here is where I don't think it makes common sense mathematically.
If you see 2 circles in front of you. One circle half orange and half purple, the other circle half yellow and half purple. How many total colors are represented? Answer three (orange, purple and yellow). How many instances of any color are represented within the circles? Answer four (orange, purple, yellow and purple).
When I see (R/G)(R/G) I see 2 total colors represented, but 4 instances of any possible color with those two mana symbols. Its just my grasp of mathematics doesn't jive with that of the rule. I understand the rule, I just don't like its mathematical representation.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
You are counting colors, but devotion is not concerned with that. It counts mana symbols, and (R/G) is one mana symbol. It has two colors, yes, but again, that is irrelevant. What matters is, that that one mana symbol matches at least one of the colors devotion is looking for in a mana symbol. Since it does, that mana symbol is counted as the singular mana symbol it is. Ergo devotion +1.
You have two tomatoes.
How many fruits do you have? Two.
How many vegetables do you have? Two.
How many fruits and/or vegetables do you have? Two. Not four.
I have said I understand the rule, but the rule does not correspond with how I think mathematically. I understand it counts mana symbols, not instances/referernces to color. I get it. But you can't change how I think, I have stated my piece. The rule is the rule, I understand its basis but I believe it is flawed mathematically. The rule doesn't make sense to me mathematically. Rules can be flawed like everything else in life. I'll abide by the rule but I don't have to like it or think it makes mathematical sense either. We move on.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
As currently written, C.R. 700.5's second sentence is indeed at odds with its intent: it currently says "...the number of mana symbols among the mana costs of permanents that player controls that are [color 1], [color 2], or both colors". If the intent is that the colors of the mana symbols, rather than those of the permanents, are what is relevant, the rule could have been worded as follows (among other possibilities): "...the number of mana symbols that are [color 1], [color 2], or both colors and that exist among the mana costs of permanents that player controls".
I have noticed this issue over a year before, and have already notified this issue to the rules manager, who has yet to respond.
You have two tomatoes.
How many fruits do you have? Two.
How many vegetables do you have? Two.
How many fruits and/or vegetables do you have? Two. Not four.
What color(s) are the tomatoes?
If both are ripe (red) on one half and unripe(green) on the other half, there are 4 instances of color. Green red and green red. 2 colors BUT 4 instances of color in the sample. I understand 2 MANA SYMBOLS. When you observe rg rg there are FOUR instances of color. Thats all I am trying to say. The way I view this mathematically is different that what the rule actually is.
I understand the rule. Stop trying to disprove my perfectly valid opinion on the matter, which actually does have math on its side.
Again I am not arguing amount of mana symbols. I am pointing out total instances of color within a mana symbol. I am entitled to opinion. I believe the rule could be better written and I believe the rule should count instances of mana within a symbol over number of symbols. Lets agree to disagree and move on please.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
But you can't change how I think, I have stated my piece.
Stop trying to disprove my perfectly valid opinion on the matter, which actually does have math on its side.
I am entitled to opinion.
Lets agree to disagree and move on please.
Just try and imagine someone else saying such things to you. You might have objections.
If no one can change how you think, how can you gain new ideas? Or modify incorrect ideas you may carry (as we all do)?
A permanent that costs (R/G)(R/G) count toward both their colors but aren't counted twice; meaning your devotion to red increases by 2, your devotion to green increases by 2, and your devotion to red and green also increases by 2 (but not 4 as one might have guessed)
Which means it’s only 2
It adds 2 R and 2 G but it only adds 2 devotion for multi-color gods that have the both colors
This thread has run its course, guys. WarMachinePrime has understood what the official ruling is, they just say they don't like it, which is their right, but questioning it further is outside the scope of this forum. Padlock time.
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I'm a former judge (lapsed), who keeps up to date on rules and policy. Keep in mind that judges' answers aren't necessarily more valid than those of people who aren't judges; what matters is we can quote the rules to back up our answers. When in doubt, ask for such quotes.
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This is all I can find rule wise.
Thanks in advance.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
700.5. A player's devotion to [color] is equal to the number of mana symbols of that color among the mana costs of permanents that player controls. A player's devotion to [color 1] and [color 2] is equal to the number of mana symbols among the mana costs of permanents that player controls that are [color 1], [color 2], or both colors.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Look at it this way: if you controlled both a Klothys, God of Destiny and a Xenagos, God of Revels, then a single Clan Guildmage would count a 2 devotion for Klothys and 2 devotion for Xenagos. That makes 4 devotion from one two-mana card. Nothing wrong with that.
RULES OF MAGIC :
http://magic.wizards.com/en/game-info/gameplay/rules-and-formats/rules
If you see 2 circles in front of you. One circle half orange and half purple, the other circle half yellow and half purple. How many total colors are represented? Answer three (orange, purple and yellow). How many instances of any color are represented within the circles? Answer four (orange, purple, yellow and purple).
When I see (R/G)(R/G) I see 2 total colors represented, but 4 instances of any possible color with those two mana symbols. Its just my grasp of mathematics doesn't jive with that of the rule. I understand the rule, I just don't like its mathematical representation.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
How many fruits do you have? Two.
How many vegetables do you have? Two.
How many fruits and/or vegetables do you have? Two. Not four.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I have noticed this issue over a year before, and have already notified this issue to the rules manager, who has yet to respond.
What color(s) are the tomatoes?
If both are ripe (red) on one half and unripe(green) on the other half, there are 4 instances of color. Green red and green red. 2 colors BUT 4 instances of color in the sample. I understand 2 MANA SYMBOLS. When you observe rg rg there are FOUR instances of color. Thats all I am trying to say. The way I view this mathematically is different that what the rule actually is.
I understand the rule. Stop trying to disprove my perfectly valid opinion on the matter, which actually does have math on its side.
Again I am not arguing amount of mana symbols. I am pointing out total instances of color within a mana symbol. I am entitled to opinion. I believe the rule could be better written and I believe the rule should count instances of mana within a symbol over number of symbols. Lets agree to disagree and move on please.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
If no one can change how you think, how can you gain new ideas? Or modify incorrect ideas you may carry (as we all do)?
RULES OF MAGIC :
http://magic.wizards.com/en/game-info/gameplay/rules-and-formats/rules
Which means it’s only 2
It adds 2 R and 2 G but it only adds 2 devotion for multi-color gods that have the both colors