If I'm playing a 4 player free for all game of commander, and each player has a copy of Perplexing Chimera on their board (because I made clones of it and traded them away for spells) what happens when someone plays a card everyone wants (lets say Expropriate)? How do you determines who gets ownership of the spell and the Chimeras? Are there different ways for players to activate their chimeras that will result in different outcomes?
The situation hasn't come up in a real game, but I'm making a clone/theft deck with the Chimera in it and figure this is a possibility.
In this case, when a player casts a spell while more than one of that player's opponents controls a Perplexing Chimera, the ability of each one of them will trigger. Those abilities will go on the stack the next time a player would get priority, starting with the one controlled by the active player or, if there is none, the one controlled by the player closest to the active player in turn order, and proceeding in turn order (C.R. 603.3, 603.3b, 101.4). (Thus, the Perplexing Chimera ability controlled by the player farthest from the active player in turn order will go on top of the stack and get to resolve before the others [C.R. 405.2, 117.4].) When each such Perplexing Chimera ability resolves, the player who controlled the corresponding Perplexing Chimera when its ability triggered (C.R. 109.5) may exchange control of the spell and that Perplexing Chimera if the latter two objects are controlled by different players (even if that player is neither of those two players and even if the player who controlled the spell or Perplexing Chimera changed between the time that ability triggered and now), but can't do so if those objects are controlled by the same player (see also C.R. 701.10b).
Note that the Commander variant is not synonymous with a multiplayer game; in any case, nothing in the rules for the Commander variant under C.R. 903 precludes applying those rules to two-player games (C.R. 903.2).
EDIT: Edited after comment 3 was posted.
EDIT: Correctness edit after comment 4 was posted.
EDIT (Aug. 21): Edited.
EDIT (Sep. 3): Clarification. One rule was renumbered with Core Set 2020.
Ah thanks! So starting with the player who went before whoever cast the spell and working in reverse turn order, each player has the opportunity to swap their Chimara and a spell on the stack. Meaning that, if they want it, the player who plays the spell or whoever is next in turn order gets control of the spell and gives their chimara to the next player in the turn order (that decided to steal it). Meaning that if you have a chimera your immune to other chimeras stealing your spells, and if everyone has a chimera, no spells can be stolen. That makes sense now! Thanks a bunch.
And I figured that commander didn't change anything, but I wasn't sure if other modes had official multiplayer rules since I've only played 1v1 drafts and commander and wanted to be as specific as I could.
Ah thanks! So starting with the player who went before whoever cast the spell and working in reverse turn order, each player has the opportunity to swap their Chimara and a spell on the stack. Meaning that, if they want it, the player who plays the spell or whoever is next in turn order gets control of the spell and gives their chimara to the next player in the turn order (that decided to steal it). Meaning that if you have a chimera your immune to other chimeras stealing your spells, and if everyone has a chimera, no spells can be stolen. That makes sense now! Thanks a bunch.
And I figured that commander didn't change anything, but I wasn't sure if other modes had official multiplayer rules since I've only played 1v1 drafts and commander and wanted to be as specific as I could.
This isn't right. You having a Chimera doesn't help your own spells at all. The chimera has a triggered ability that only triggers off of an opponents spell so your own spells will never trigger it. This means you can't steal back a spell that was stolen from you.
If everyone has a Chimera and player A casts a spell that everyone wants it would go like this. (players are A, B, C, D in that turn order)
Player A casts spell triggering the Chimeras from B C and D.
They go on the stack with D, C, B
B resolves first and they trade
C then resolves and they trade
D resolves and they trade, no one else can trade because all triggers have resolved.
Player A has two chimeras while B and C each have one and D doesn't have any.
In such situations, Player D, the player whose turn it was most recently, will be able to get the spell if they want it.
So I feel like you have the items going on the stack in reverse order. Players get priority "in turn order"
117.3d If a player has priority and chooses not to take any actions, that player passes. If any mana is in that player’s mana pool, they announce what mana is there. Then the next player in turn order receives priority.
This would mean the player who takes their turn right after the active player. The player on the active player's left or player B in your scenario (if A,B,C,D is the turn order) would have their trigger put on the stack first. Since their trigger was on the stack first it would resolve LAST. So player D would get player C's chimera, player C would get player B's chimera, Player B would get control of the spell and have no more chimeras and player A would end up with two chimera's player D's and their original chimera which didn't trigger since they cast the spell.
Is that correct? I am not a judge so I would love confirmation on this. I am thinking of playing perplexing chimera in a Volo Guide to monsters deck so scenarios like this are going to happen a lot since he puts two chimera's on the field.
So I feel like you have the items going on the stack in reverse order. Players get priority "in turn order"
117.3d If a player has priority and chooses not to take any actions, that player passes. If any mana is in that player’s mana pool, they announce what mana is there. Then the next player in turn order receives priority.
This would mean the player who takes their turn right after the active player. The player on the active player's left or player B in your scenario (if A,B,C,D is the turn order) would have their trigger put on the stack first. Since their trigger was on the stack first it would resolve LAST. So player D would get player C's chimera, player C would get player B's chimera, Player B would get control of the spell and have no more chimeras and player A would end up with two chimera's player D's and their original chimera which didn't trigger since they cast the spell.
Is that correct? I am not a judge so I would love confirmation on this. I am thinking of playing perplexing chimera in a Volo Guide to monsters deck so scenarios like this are going to happen a lot since he puts two chimera's on the field.
Yes, you got that right. I'm surprised that no one caught the mistake in order by the previous poster, but the order given there is indeed wrong.
The situation hasn't come up in a real game, but I'm making a clone/theft deck with the Chimera in it and figure this is a possibility.
Note that the Commander variant is not synonymous with a multiplayer game; in any case, nothing in the rules for the Commander variant under C.R. 903 precludes applying those rules to two-player games (C.R. 903.2).
EDIT: Edited after comment 3 was posted.
EDIT: Correctness edit after comment 4 was posted.
EDIT (Aug. 21): Edited.
EDIT (Sep. 3): Clarification. One rule was renumbered with Core Set 2020.
And I figured that commander didn't change anything, but I wasn't sure if other modes had official multiplayer rules since I've only played 1v1 drafts and commander and wanted to be as specific as I could.
If everyone has a Chimera and player A casts a spell that everyone wants it would go like this. (players are A, B, C, D in that turn order)
Player A casts spell triggering the Chimeras from B C and D.
They go on the stack with D, C, B
B resolves first and they trade
C then resolves and they trade
D resolves and they trade, no one else can trade because all triggers have resolved.
Player A has two chimeras while B and C each have one and D doesn't have any.
In such situations, Player D, the player whose turn it was most recently, will be able to get the spell if they want it.
117.3d If a player has priority and chooses not to take any actions, that player passes. If any mana is in that player’s mana pool, they announce what mana is there. Then the next player in turn order receives priority.
This would mean the player who takes their turn right after the active player. The player on the active player's left or player B in your scenario (if A,B,C,D is the turn order) would have their trigger put on the stack first. Since their trigger was on the stack first it would resolve LAST. So player D would get player C's chimera, player C would get player B's chimera, Player B would get control of the spell and have no more chimeras and player A would end up with two chimera's player D's and their original chimera which didn't trigger since they cast the spell.
Is that correct? I am not a judge so I would love confirmation on this. I am thinking of playing perplexing chimera in a Volo Guide to monsters deck so scenarios like this are going to happen a lot since he puts two chimera's on the field.
Yes, you got that right. I'm surprised that no one caught the mistake in order by the previous poster, but the order given there is indeed wrong.
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)