If Skullbriar, the Walking Grave dies via -1/-1 counters, like say Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons is able to get commander damage in before Skullbriar and she puts a -1 counter on Skully while he's just a simple 1/1, hes effectively locked out of the rest of game, right?
If that happens, is it possible to use something like Undying Evil or Strength of the Tajuru to save him? Or is it impossible to respond before he dies?
Im kind of amazed that I had a hard time finding an answer to these questions considering how old the card is.
If Skullbriar dies due to having 0 toughness because it has a -1/-1 counter on it, casting it from the command zone, for example, will cause it to enter the battlefield as a 0/0 and immediately die when state-based actions are checked. It's not possible to save a creature that enters the battlefield with 0 toughness with anything that targets that creature; however, global +1/+1 effects, or things similar to Bloodspore Thrinax, will work as they do not use the stack and simply apply statically.
Skullbriar will die as a state-based action if he's got -1/-1 counters in another zone and goes to the battlefield without hitting your hand or library first, so you can't use any spells in response to save him.
Anthem effects can keep him alive long enough to lose the -1/-1 counters (assuming you've got enough anthem to counteract the number of counters), and Mikaeus the Unhallowed would give him undying as a static effect regardless of the number of counters. Other than that, you'd need to return Skullbriar to your hand or library to clear away the counters.
Skullbriar will die shortly after reentering the battlefield for having 0 toughness. This is a state based action and happens before any player gets priority to even think about casting a spell or activating an ability. So no, no spell or ability that has to target Skullbriar as a creature on the battlefield will work. But, you can still get him to survive if you have a static buff to his toughness from a continus effect like Gaea's Anthem. Those apply immediately, so Skullbriar will never be on the battlefield without the increased toughness and thus survive the otherwise lethal counter.
No, because +1/+1 counters and -1/-1 counters annihilating each other is also a state based action and they all happen simultaneously. Since leaves-the-battlefield triggers (like undying) check the game state right before the event to determine wether to trigger or not, Skullbiar dies with a +1/+1 counter as far as the game is concerned, thus undying does not trigger when Skullbriar dies again.
Oh ok, gotcha. So if he has 2x -1/-1 counters on him, Mik is not gonna he able to save him in one cast. You would have to cast Skully twice to shed both. Is that right?
Would something like Durable Handicraft help? Or do the counters have to enter along with the creature?
It doesn't help. The ability is a triggered ability so the creature enters and triggers the ability but before it resolves the creature is put into the GY for having zero toughness. You would need a replacement ability like Master Biomancer that puts the counters on as it enters the field.
[Quote]Oh ok, gotcha. So if he has 2x -1/-1 counters on him, Mik is not gonna he able to save him in one cast. You would have to cast Skully twice to shed both. Is that right?
If he has 2 minus counters with mik out he will die and trigger undying bring him back with 2 minus counters and 1 plus counter. State based actions will occur and one plus and one minus counter will be removed leaving with just one minus counter and Skullbriar will be put in the GY for having zero toughness. Because it had a plus counter just before it died undying will not trigger though.
Would something like Durable Handicraft help? Or do the counters have to enter along with the creature?
In general, if Skullbriar, already with -1/-1 counters on it, enters the battlefield, it has to also enter with at least that many +1/+1 counters on it (e.g., by a replacement effect) in order to remain on the battlefield for no short time. A triggered or activated ability that goes on the stack, like Durable Handicraft's first or second ability, won't be able to resolve before state-based actions are checked (C.R. 116.4, 116.3, 704.3).
EDIT: Correction and other edits after comment 11 was posted.
In general, if Skullbriar, already with -1/-1 counters on it, enters the battlefield, it has to also enter with at least that many +1/+1 counters on it plus one (e.g., by a replacement effect) in order to remain on the battlefield without a state-based effect necessarily kicking in shortly afterward.
Equal, not equal plus one. A Skullbriar with 3 -1/-1 counters entering with 3 +1/+1 counters will be a 1/1 and survive.
If that happens, is it possible to use something like Undying Evil or Strength of the Tajuru to save him? Or is it impossible to respond before he dies?
Im kind of amazed that I had a hard time finding an answer to these questions considering how old the card is.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
Anthem effects can keep him alive long enough to lose the -1/-1 counters (assuming you've got enough anthem to counteract the number of counters), and Mikaeus the Unhallowed would give him undying as a static effect regardless of the number of counters. Other than that, you'd need to return Skullbriar to your hand or library to clear away the counters.
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Former Rules Advisor
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Edit: Wait I see now. Each time he would cancel out 1 counter until he eventually resolves with one +1 counter. Nvm
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
It doesn't help. The ability is a triggered ability so the creature enters and triggers the ability but before it resolves the creature is put into the GY for having zero toughness. You would need a replacement ability like Master Biomancer that puts the counters on as it enters the field.
[Quote]Oh ok, gotcha. So if he has 2x -1/-1 counters on him, Mik is not gonna he able to save him in one cast. You would have to cast Skully twice to shed both. Is that right?
If he has 2 minus counters with mik out he will die and trigger undying bring him back with 2 minus counters and 1 plus counter. State based actions will occur and one plus and one minus counter will be removed leaving with just one minus counter and Skullbriar will be put in the GY for having zero toughness. Because it had a plus counter just before it died undying will not trigger though.
EDIT: Correction and other edits after comment 11 was posted.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
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