I'm sure most modern players are familiar with a fringe rogue deck known as UG Evolve (or Simic Evolve) where they use creatures like Pelt Collector and Experiment One coupled with undying creatures like Strangleroot Geist and Young Wolf. Then they proceed to destroy their own creatures with Pongify and Rapid Hybridization to creature extra Evolve triggers. But there's something that doesn't seem right to me.
There's a serious misplay I'm seeing happen in the first turns of the game. You play a Pelt Collector on turn 1. Then on turn 2 you cast a Young Wolf and then cast Pongify targeting that Wolf. I believe that once Pongify begins to resolve, the wolf is destroyed and it's Undying trigger will go on the stack, but that trigger cannot resolve until Pongify has finished resolving, creating the 3/3 token BEFORE the Wolf returns to the battlefield as a 2/2. Priority must be passed before the Wolf's undying trigger tries to resolve, so at that point the Pelt Collector should already have received it's +1/+1 counter from the 3/3 token.
This is extremely relevant because the UG Evolve player is trying to stack their triggers so that the Pelt Collector gets two counters in that critical second turn, rather than only one. But I don't think that's correct.
If Pongify destroys Young Wolf in this scenario, both undying and Pelt Collector's first abilityundying will trigger, then a 3/3 Ape token is created, making Pelt Collector's first ability trigger again for that token (C.R. 608.2c, 603.2, 603.4, 702.92a). Then Pongify goes to the graveyard, then all threeboth abilities go on the stack, in the order of their controller's choice (C.R. 608.2k, 116.3b, 116.5, 603.3b). If undying is put on the stack this way above the Pelt Collector abilitiesability, undying will get to resolve first and return Young Wolf to the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it, making Young Wolf 2/2 and Pelt Collector's first ability trigger yet again for Young Wolf, provided Pelt Collector's power is 1 or less (C.R. 116.4, 603.2, 603.4, 702.92a). The choice can also be made to put undying below the Pelt Collector abilitiesability instead.
No, this play is possible. What you are forgetting is, that evolve is a trigger as well, so it goes on the stack and doesn't do anything until it resolves, and only if the if-condition is true. So after Pongify has finished resolving, there are two waiting triggers, evolve and undying, and since they are both controlled by the same player, that player can put them on the stack in the order of his choosing. Thus it is possible to have undying resolve first, which brings back the creature, which triggers evolve again. And that evolve trigger is for the returned creature, and goes on top of the one for the 3/3 token. so the X1 can evolve for the 2/2 and then evolve again for the 3/3. In both instances, the if-condition is still true upon resolution.
No, this play is possible. What you are forgetting is, that evolve is a trigger as well, so it goes on the stack and doesn't do anything until it resolves, and only if the if-condition is true. So after Pongify has finished resolving, there are two waiting triggers, evolve and undying, and since they are both controlled by the same player, that player can put them on the stack in the order of his choosing. Thus it is possible to have undying resolve first, which brings back the creature, which triggers evolve again. And that evolve trigger is for the returned creature, and goes on top of the one for the 3/3 token. so the X1 can evolve for the 2/2 and then evolve again for the 3/3. In both instances, the if-condition is still true upon resolution.
This makes sense. Thank you.
I was wrapping my head too tightly around the fact that the 3/3 token most definitely enters the battlefield before the 2/2 Wolf, but that doesn't mean the Evolve trigger (triggered by the 3/3) can't wait to resolve until after the undying trigger resolving.
So the biggest they can make Pelt Collector in this scenario is a 3/3 on turn two
There's a serious misplay I'm seeing happen in the first turns of the game. You play a Pelt Collector on turn 1. Then on turn 2 you cast a Young Wolf and then cast Pongify targeting that Wolf. I believe that once Pongify begins to resolve, the wolf is destroyed and it's Undying trigger will go on the stack, but that trigger cannot resolve until Pongify has finished resolving, creating the 3/3 token BEFORE the Wolf returns to the battlefield as a 2/2. Priority must be passed before the Wolf's undying trigger tries to resolve, so at that point the Pelt Collector should already have received it's +1/+1 counter from the 3/3 token.
This is extremely relevant because the UG Evolve player is trying to stack their triggers so that the Pelt Collector gets two counters in that critical second turn, rather than only one. But I don't think that's correct.
Please advise.
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both undying and Pelt Collector's first abilityundying will trigger, then a 3/3 Ape token is created, making Pelt Collector's first ability triggeragainfor that token (C.R. 608.2c, 603.2, 603.4, 702.92a). Then Pongify goes to the graveyard, thenall threeboth abilities go on the stack, in the order of their controller's choice (C.R. 608.2k, 116.3b, 116.5, 603.3b). If undying is put on the stack this way above the Pelt Collectorabilitiesability, undying will get to resolve first and return Young Wolf to the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it, making Young Wolf 2/2 and Pelt Collector's first ability triggeryet againfor Young Wolf, provided Pelt Collector's power is 1 or less (C.R. 116.4, 603.2, 603.4, 702.92a). The choice can also be made to put undying below the Pelt Collectorabilitiesability instead.EDIT: Correction after comment 4 was posted.
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This makes sense. Thank you.
I was wrapping my head too tightly around the fact that the 3/3 token most definitely enters the battlefield before the 2/2 Wolf, but that doesn't mean the Evolve trigger (triggered by the 3/3) can't wait to resolve until after the undying trigger resolving.
So the biggest they can make Pelt Collector in this scenario is a 3/3 on turn two
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