Example:
I often use Wickerbough Elder in combination with Commander Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons.
So I usualy put -1/-1 counters on Wickerbough Elder. And the question is, do +1/+1 counters negate -1/-1 counters? Does one +1/+1 counter erase one -1/-1 counter?
Or are there two different piles (+ and -) of counters on that creature?
You seem to have got the concept. If you put a +1/+1 counter on a creature that already has a -1/-1 counter both counters with be removed. However the counters are in fact placed on the creature so Hapatra will trigger even if the creature you are putting - counters on already has + counters.
There are some old cards that use different types of counter, even if they seem similar they are different and don't remove eachother in the same way. Frankenstein's Monster, Baron Sengir.
+1/+1 and -1/-1 counters negate each other when State based Actions are checked. So for example if you have a Geralf's Messenger with a +1/+1 counter on it, and then put three -1/-1 counters on it with Skinrender, the Messenger will go to the graveyard with one +1/+1 counter and three -1/-1 counters, since creatures with 0 or less toughness are also put into the Graveyard during State Based Actions. However, if you had a Geralf's Messenger with a +1/+1 counter and Bad Moon in play, and then put three -1/-1 counters on it, when State Based Actions are checked, you'll have a Geralf's Messenger with just two -1/-1 counters.
+1/+1 and -1/-1 counters negate each other when State based Actions are checked. So for example if you have a Geralf's Messenger with a +1/+1 counter on it, and then put three -1/-1 counters on it with Skinrender, the Messenger will go to the graveyard with one +1/+1 counter and three -1/-1 counters, since creatures with 0 or less toughness are also put into the Graveyard during State Based Actions. However, if you had a Geralf's Messenger with a +1/+1 counter and Bad Moon in play, and then put three -1/-1 counters on it, when State Based Actions are checked, you'll have a Geralf's Messenger with just two -1/-1 counters.
Minor clarification. The counters are still removed in your first scenario as part of state-based actions (the state-based action to move it to the GY for having toughness of 0 or less and the state-based action to remove N +1/+1 and N -1/-1 counters both happen as a single event). However, when the game uses last known game state information, the creature is considered as still having all counters.
If I proliferate with Atraxa, Praetors' Voice on one creature with (1) -1/-1 and (2) +1/+1, I get (2) -1/-1 and (3) +1/+1 on that creature for still a net of (1) +1/+1?
If I proliferate with Atraxa, Praetors' Voice on one creature with (1) -1/-1 and (2) +1/+1, I get (2) -1/-1 and (3) +1/+1 on that creature for still a net of (1) +1/+1?
In general, a creature won't have both a +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter on it by the time a spell or ability (such as Atraxa's last ability) starts to resolve. In general, if a creature has both kinds of counters, it will only end up with one or the other due to state based actions (C.R. 704.5q; see also C.R. 117.5, 117.4).
The only moment you canit can happen that you proliferate (C.R. 701.27a) while a permanent has +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters on it is if, before you proliferate—
one or more counters of both kinds are put on a permanent, or
one or more +1/+1 counters are put on a permanent with a -1/-1 counter on it or vice versa,
and both actions happen during the resolution of the same spell or ability (an example is Grim Affliction), because players don't have priority while a spell or ability is resolving (C.R. 117.2e). See also this thread.
EDIT (May 3): Clarification after comment 13 was posted.
EDIT (Jun. 8, 2019): Correctness edit.
EDIT (Dec. 25, 2019): Correctness edit. Some rules were renumbered with Core Set 2020.
EDIT (Oct. 24, 2022): One rule was renumbered in the meantime.
+1/+1 counters and -1/-1 counters annihilate as a state-based action, i.e. the things the game does between player actions. There's only one corner case where it matters that they're both on at the same time. (It's when a creature with undying with a +1/+1 counter gets enough -1/-1 counters to kill it. Basically, the game sees, e.g., a Young Wolf with a +1/+1 counter and two -1/-1 counters, so undying wouldn't trigger.)
Also, proliferate only lets you pick one counter per permanent or player. Normally it won't matter, but if, e.g., Gideon Jura gets a +1/+1 counter, then he'll have both +1/+1 counters and loyalty counters, and you'll have to pick one. Or if you have both energy and experience counters, you have to pick one.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Also, proliferate only lets you pick one counter per permanent or player. Normally it won't matter, but if, e.g., Gideon Jura gets a +1/+1 counter, then he'll have both +1/+1 counters and loyalty counters, and you'll have to pick one. Or if you have both energy and experience counters, you have to pick one.
According to the card, I have to give each counter a "bump" when I pick a permanent or player. So if a player a poison counter and an experience counter, they both go up because I have to give EACH COUNTER another one if I choose them.
Also, proliferate only lets you pick one counter per permanent or player. Normally it won't matter, but if, e.g., Gideon Jura gets a +1/+1 counter, then he'll have both +1/+1 counters and loyalty counters, and you'll have to pick one. Or if you have both energy and experience counters, you have to pick one.
According to the card, I have to give each counter a "bump" when I pick a permanent or player. So if a player a poison counter and an experience counter, they both go up because I have to give EACH COUNTER another one if I choose them.
No, not "each counter", "each permanent or player" (that you chose). You put a counter (as in one) of a kind (as in one) that's already there.
The War of the Spark rules update changed the proliferate rule. Notably, while proliferating, if a permanent or player has counters of two or more different kinds (e.g., a -1/-1 counter and a +1/+1 counter), that permanent or player is now given a counter of each such kind (in this example, one -1/-1 counter and one +1/+1 counter) rather than one counter of only one such kind (C.R. 701.26a).
The War of the Spark rules update changed the proliferate rule. Notably, while proliferating, if a permanent or player has counters of two or more different kinds (e.g., a -1/-1 counter and a +1/+1 counter), that permanent or player is now given a counter of each such kind (in this example, one -1/-1 counter and one +1/+1 counter) rather than one counter of only one such kind (C.R. 701.26a).
You could not have both a -1/-1 counter and a +1/+1 counter and then proliferate. SBA would have already caused them to cancel out.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
The War of the Spark rules update changed the proliferate rule. Notably, while proliferating, if a permanent or player has counters of two or more different kinds (e.g., a -1/-1 counter and a +1/+1 counter), that permanent or player is now given a counter of each such kind (in this example, one -1/-1 counter and one +1/+1 counter) rather than one counter of only one such kind (C.R. 701.26a).
You could not have both a -1/-1 counter and a +1/+1 counter and then proliferate. SBA would have already caused them to cancel out.
You are correct about the change for WAR
It can happen if you use Grim Affliction on a creature that has a +1/+1 counter, or Courage in Crisis on a creature that has a -1/-1 counter. The spell first puts the opposite counter, then proliferates both before SBAs can apply.
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Example:
I often use Wickerbough Elder in combination with Commander Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons.
So I usualy put -1/-1 counters on Wickerbough Elder. And the question is, do +1/+1 counters negate -1/-1 counters? Does one +1/+1 counter erase one -1/-1 counter?
Or are there two different piles (+ and -) of counters on that creature?
There are some old cards that use different types of counter, even if they seem similar they are different and don't remove eachother in the same way. Frankenstein's Monster, Baron Sengir.
[180 classic cube]
Minor clarification. The counters are still removed in your first scenario as part of state-based actions (the state-based action to move it to the GY for having toughness of 0 or less and the state-based action to remove N +1/+1 and N -1/-1 counters both happen as a single event). However, when the game uses last known game state information, the creature is considered as still having all counters.
The only moment
you canit can happen that you proliferate (C.R. 701.27a) while a permanent has +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters on it is if, before you proliferate—EDIT (May 3): Clarification after comment 13 was posted.
EDIT (Jun. 8, 2019): Correctness edit.
EDIT (Dec. 25, 2019): Correctness edit. Some rules were renumbered with Core Set 2020.
EDIT (Oct. 24, 2022): One rule was renumbered in the meantime.
Also, proliferate only lets you pick one counter per permanent or player. Normally it won't matter, but if, e.g., Gideon Jura gets a +1/+1 counter, then he'll have both +1/+1 counters and loyalty counters, and you'll have to pick one. Or if you have both energy and experience counters, you have to pick one.
On phasing:
According to the card, I have to give each counter a "bump" when I pick a permanent or player. So if a player a poison counter and an experience counter, they both go up because I have to give EACH COUNTER another one if I choose them.
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
You could not have both a -1/-1 counter and a +1/+1 counter and then proliferate. SBA would have already caused them to cancel out.
You are correct about the change for WAR
It can happen if you use Grim Affliction on a creature that has a +1/+1 counter, or Courage in Crisis on a creature that has a -1/-1 counter. The spell first puts the opposite counter, then proliferates both before SBAs can apply.