I´m a bit confused about how Teysa Karlov works. Does creatures with a triggered ability when they die work like Death's-Head Buzzard or is it only non-creature spells like Dark Prophecy that works?
Anything that has a dies trigger from itself dying will trigger twice with Teysa out. The way dies triggers work is that they need to look back in time to right before it died to determine if anything should trigger. It sees that it had a trigger when it was a permanent, so it triggers as a permanent.
Dies triggers do not trigger from the graveyard (which is why Yixlid Jailer does not stop them) so they must trigger from the battlefield. And on the battlefield, they are permanents.
Also, as less of a rules reason and more of a common sense reason, she is an Orzhov Legendary in a set where the Orzhov Mechanic is a dies trigger and it wouldn't make a lot of sense for her not to work with her guild's mechanic.
603.10a. Some zone-change triggers look back in time. These are leaves-the-battlefield abilities, abilities that trigger when a card leaves a graveyard, and abilities that trigger when an object that all players can see is put into a hand or library.
Example: Two creatures are on the battlefield along with an artifact that has the ability "Whenever a creature dies, you gain 1 life." Someone casts a spell that destroys all artifacts, creatures, and enchantments. The artifact's ability triggers twice, even though the artifact goes to its owner's graveyard at the same time as the creatures.
Teysa's first ability applies to any triggered ability of any "permanent you control", creature or not, that would trigger upon a creature dying (including the abilities of Death's-Head Buzzard or Dark Prophecy), as long as that ability is not a delayed triggered ability (C.R. 603.2e).
EDIT: Correctness edit after comment 9 was posted.
EDIT (Feb. 13): Correctness edit.
EDIT (Sep. 19, 2021): Edited to conform to rule changes with Adventures in the Forgotten Realms.
EDIT (Sep. 20, 2021): Edited slightly.
How does Teysa Karlov work with the exploit keyword? The creature with exploit entering the battlefield causes an optional sacrifice to happen, but then the sacrifice itself triggers the effect. I'm pretty sure it doesn't work, since the effect doesn't follow the "when a creature dies" or "when a creature leaves the battlefield" formula.
No, she does not work with Exploit. Exploit triggers "when you Exploit a creature". It is triggered by the creature being sacrificed, not the creature dying.
What about haunt? A creature dying does trigger the haunt ability, and the ability of a card in exile can be triggered if the card has haunt. But does this card in exile count as a "permanent you control" to trigger for the purposes of Teysa? (Assuming the exiled haunt card is a permanent, and not an instant or sorcery)
Teysa Karlov doesn't interact with Haunt in any meaningful way.
“Haunt” on a permanent means “When this permanent is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, exile it haunting target creature.” This is a dies trigger, so Teysa causes it to trigger twice. But the card can only be exiled haunting one target creature. So the second Haunt ability would do nothing.
Permanents you control are only things (cards or tokens) on the battlefield. So when the Haunted creature dies, it causes your card to trigger, but it isn't causing a permanent you to control to trigger. As a card in exile is not a permanent you control.
To make sure it's loud and clear: Yes, Teysa Karlov's ability gets you an extra trigger on afterlife. The source of the trigger is the creature that last existed on the battlefield, not the card in your graveyard.
Second super popular Teysa Karlov question: "Leaves the battlefield" triggers trigger an extra time if the creature leaves the battlefield because it died.
Distant third most popular Teysa Karlov question: Triggers on sacrificing, exploiting, or destroying don't trigger an additional time. Those actions caused the creature to die, but Teysa only looks at the dying. It's a fine difference between these and "leaves"
Challenge Mode Teysa Karlov Time: "graveyard from anywhere" triggers of a permanent you control trigger an extra time only if that permanent and Teysa are both still on the battlefield after a creature dies. Wrath + Compost + Teysa + Their black creature card = No draw
(No *extra* draw, Compost still triggers there normally)
Teysa affects a creature's own "when this creature dies" triggered abilities as well as other triggered abilities that trigger when that creature dies. Such triggered abilities start with "when" or "whenever."
Teysa's effect doesn't copy the triggered ability; it just causes the ability to trigger twice. Any choices made as you put the ability onto the stack, such as modes and targets, are made separately for each instance of the ability. Any choices made on resolution, such as whether to pay a cost for that triggered ability, are also made separately.
The trigger event doesn't have to specifically refer to "creatures." In these cases, the trigger event may also refer to something being "put into a graveyard from the battlefield." For example, an ability that triggers "whenever an artifact is put into a graveyard from the battlefield" would trigger twice if an artifact creature dies while Teysa Karlov is on the battlefield.
An ability that triggers when a creature "leaves the battlefield" will trigger twice if that creature leaves the battlefield by dying.
An ability that triggers on an event that causes a creature to die doesn't trigger twice. For example, an ability that triggers "whenever you sacrifice a creature" triggers only once.
Look at each creature as it exists on the battlefield, taking into account continuous effects, to determine whether any triggered abilities will trigger multiple times. For example, if a land that has become a creature dies, an ability that triggers when it dies triggers twice.
If a creature dying at the same time that another permanent you control leaves the battlefield causes a triggered ability of that permanent to trigger, that ability triggers an additional time.
If a creature dying at the same time as Teysa (including Teysa itself dying) causes a triggered ability of a permanent you control to trigger, that ability triggers an additional time.
If you somehow control two Teysas, a creature dying causes abilities to trigger three times, not four. A third Teysa causes abilities to trigger four times, a fourth causes abilities to trigger five times, and so on. This also means that if you control Teysa and cast a second one, an ability that triggers when it dies due to the "legend rule" triggers three times.
An ability of a permanent that triggers when a card is put into a graveyard "from anywhere" triggers twice only if Teysa and that permanent are both still on the battlefield immediately after the creature has died.
No, she does not work with Exploit. Exploit triggers "when you Exploit a creature". It is triggered by the creature being sacrificed, not the creature dying.
It's actually "if you exploited", meaning that as part of the creature's enter trigger, the game asks "Did you sacrifice a creature as an additional cost when paying for CARDNAME?" If so, you get the enter trigger. Exploit does work with Panharmonicon, though. And you only have to exploit once to do get both triggers.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
No, she does not work with Exploit. Exploit triggers "when you Exploit a creature". It is triggered by the creature being sacrificed, not the creature dying.
It's actually "if you exploited", meaning that as part of the creature's enter trigger, the game asks "Did you sacrifice a creature as an additional cost when paying for CARDNAME?" If so, you get the enter trigger. Exploit does work with Panharmonicon, though. And you only have to exploit once to do get both triggers.
This is incorrect. Exploit is an ETB trigger (which Panharmonicon will double) that gives you the option to sacrifice a creature, and nothing else. All creatures with exploit then have a second ability in the form "When ~ exploits a creature, ..." that triggers when it sacrifices a creature due to the exploit trigger.
While Panharmonicon could get you two copies of an exploit creature's ability, you would have to sacrifice two creatures to get the benefit twice.
What about adarkar valkyrie, I’m curious about this. If two creatures die, let’s say via a sac outlet. Teysa Karlov is in play, and I tap the Adrkar Valkyrie at the same time they die... I understand this is an activated ability from the Valkyrie, but the wording does use the word “Whenever”. I’m wondering it retuns both creatures from the graveyard?
What about adarkar valkyrie, I’m curious about this. If two creatures die, let’s say via a sac outlet. Teysa Karlov is in play, and I tap the Adrkar Valkyrie at the same time they die... I understand this is an activated ability from the Valkyrie, but the wording does use the word “Whenever”. I’m wondering it retuns both creatures from the graveyard?
Adarkar Valkyrie's activated ability does create a delayed triggered ability that waits to trigger until another creature dies. However, it doesn't interact particularly well with Teysa's ability because it specifies that you return "that card" to the battlefield. When the creature dies, the delayed triggered ability would trigger twice due to Teysa's ability, but you can only return "that card" to the battlefield once. Even if you could somehow sacrifice the creature again in between the two instances of the triggered ability, the creature would become a new object in the graveyard and it would no longer be "that card" (i.e. the creature card that was originally the creature targeted by the Valkyrie's ability).
What about adarkar valkyrie, I’m curious about this. If two creatures die, let’s say via a sac outlet. Teysa Karlov is in play, and I tap the Adrkar Valkyrie at the same time they die... I understand this is an activated ability from the Valkyrie, but the wording does use the word “Whenever”. I’m wondering it retuns both creatures from the graveyard?
There are multiple issues with your scenario: you can't tap the Valkyrie "at the same time" the creatures die, you have to activate her before they die; and you can only target one creature with her ability. Teysa wouldn't work anyway because the delayed triggered ability that she creates is not 'of a permanent you control', it's like "in the air" and not on any permanent. If the Valkyrie worked another way, giving a triggered ability to the creature that's to die, Teysa could make it so it triggers twice, but it would be twice for the same creature, and that's useless even if you could sacrifice the creature inbetween triggers, because the second trigger to resolve would not be able to return the creature since it changing zones makes it a new object that the ability can't track.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm a former judge (lapsed), who keeps up to date on rules and policy. Keep in mind that judges' answers aren't necessarily more valid than those of people who aren't judges; what matters is we can quote the rules to back up our answers. When in doubt, ask for such quotes.
Teysa wouldn't work anyway because the delayed triggered ability that [Adarkar Valkyrie] creates is not 'of a permanent you control', it's like "in the air" and not on any permanent.
I disagree. A delayed triggered ability created by the effect of an activated ability (such as Adarkar Valkyrie's) has the same source as that activated ability (C.R. 603.7e). Thus, for the purposes of Teysa, the delayed triggered ability in question is of a permanent.
EDIT (Mar. 11, 2020): Struck out some text.
EDIT (Jul. 16, 2021): Strike out remaining text in view of rule changes with Adventures in the Forgotten Realms.
Oh dear. It seems I’ve opened another Athreos can of worms...
I’m not the greatest at interpreting wording on cards, but wasn’t it previously established that the wording on Thornbite Staff combos off with Adarkar Valkyrie because both things occur “at the same time”.
I do understand what your saying about the creature not being there for the second instance. It was my logic for arguing that Athreos can’t trigger twice because of the wording the creature should be back in your hand for the second instance. However there seems to be a growing number of people that have stong arguments for the case of a double trigger and a six life pentalty from Athreos.
I think I followed the logic here and I understand why it does not work with the Valkyrie. Tap to target ONE specific creature that is waiting for death. When it dies. Then the second instance comes, creature is gone. This is similar to why Arena Rector and the word Exile does not work.
However the more of these resolutions I read the more I’m starting to side with the 6 damage interpretation of Athreos...
I really do like Teysa at face value. It’s quite a learning curve to figure out all these interactions with wording on different cards. I hope I can get all the mecanisms straight soon. I’d really like to build a deck around this commander.
I do understand what your saying about the creature not being there for the second instance. It was my logic for arguing that Athreos can’t trigger twice because of the wording the creature should be back in your hand for the second instance. However there seems to be a growing number of people that have stong arguments for the case of a double trigger and a six life pentalty from Athreos.
Teysa's first ability applies to Athreos's last ability (if Athreos is a "permanent you control") because it triggers "[w]henever another creature you own dies" and because it isn't a delayed triggered ability; in general, it applies to any ability (of a "permanent you control") with the form "whenever [a] creature ... dies", regardless of what that ability would do when it resolves, as long as that ability is not a delayed triggered ability (C.R. 603.2e). Also, Athreos's last ability means, in relevant part, "... target opponent may pay 3 life. If they don't, return [the object in question] to your hand" (C.R. 117.12a; see also C.R. 603.5). Thus, paying 3 life this way is optional regardless of whether the object that creature became is still in the graveyard (C.R. 603.5). See also this thread and this thread.
I think I followed the logic here and I understand why it does not work with the Valkyrie. Tap to target ONE specific creature that is waiting for death. When it dies. Then the second instance comes, creature is gone. This is similar to why Arena Rector and the word Exile does not work.
Teysa's first ability likewise applies to Arena Rector's last ability and the delayed triggered ability created by Adarkar Valkyrie's activated ability. Regardless of whether those abilities triggered once or several times, however, if the card they refer to isn't in the graveyard when they resolve, or has already left that graveyard in the meantime, it simply isn't exiled or returned to hand, as the case may be (C.R. 400.7).Teysa's first ability likewise applies to Arena Rector's last ability. Regardless of whether that ability triggered once or several times, however, if the card it refers to isn't in the graveyard when it resolves, or has already left that graveyard in the meantime, that card simply isn't exiled (C.R. 400.7). See also this thread.
EDIT (Sep, 19, 2021): Edited to conform to rule changes with Adventures in the Forgotten Realms.
EDIT (Sep. 20, 2021): Edited slightly.
EDIT (Jan. 26, 2021): Correctness edit.
All the mentioned triggers do go off twice. They are put on the stack at the same time as their doubles. That is where your misunderstanding lies, triggers do not wait for other triggers to resolve before going on the stack, nor do they take into account what they themselves or other triggers will do, they go there at the first opportunity. The key to understanding these scenarios is understanding what the triggers do when they resolve.
With Athreos, the trigger asks for life payment and if it is not paid, the creature gets returned. So if it is paid for the first resolving trigger, the creature card doesn't move, so the second trigger can perform all of its instructions again. Hence a total life payment of 6 is nessessary to keep the creature card in the yard through both triggers.
Otoh, a resolving trigger, that moves the card out of the graveyard, leaves no card to move for the second.
I’m not the greatest at interpreting wording on cards, but wasn’t it previously established that the wording on Thornbite Staff combos off with Adarkar Valkyrie because both things occur “at the same time”.
Both the delayed trigger set by the Valkyrie and the ability granted to the Valkyrie granted by the Staff *trigger* at the same time, and you put them on the stack in the order you want. They don't *resolve* at the same time, but anyway, you'd have tapped Valkyrie some time earlier, so there's no issue here. The creature returns and the Valkyrie untaps, in an order of your choice. With a free sacrifice outlet, you can rinse and repeat.
However the more of these resolutions I read the more I’m starting to side with the 6 damage interpretation of Athreos...
Athreos, God of Passage + Teysa poses no rules issue, there is no need for interpretation, the result is crystal clear. You get two separate Athreos triggers for each creature you own that dies. You can target the same opponent twice, or two different opponents in multiplayer. If they want the creature card to stay in the graveyard, they have to pay 3 life for both triggers. If they'd rather let it go back to your hand, they can just let the first trigger to resolve do it and ignore the other. Similar to the Valkyrie situation above, if you discard the creature card inbetween the two triggers, you don't get the chance to return it with the second trigger to resolve, because it's a new object, your opponent can ignore the trigger and it still stays there.
Notes: Edited for a clearer and more complete response to the previous post.
I'm a former judge (lapsed), who keeps up to date on rules and policy. Keep in mind that judges' answers aren't necessarily more valid than those of people who aren't judges; what matters is we can quote the rules to back up our answers. When in doubt, ask for such quotes.
All the mentioned triggers do go off twice. They are put on the stack at the same time as their doubles. That is where your misunderstanding lies, triggers do not wait for other triggers to resolve before going on the stack, nor do they take into account what they themselves or other triggers will do, they go there at the first opportunity. The key to understanding these scenarios is understanding what the triggers do when they resolve.
I’m not the greatest at interpreting wording on cards, but wasn’t it previously established that the wording on Thornbite Staff combos off with Adarkar Valkyrie because both things occur “at the same time”.
Both the delayed trigger set by the Valkyrie and the ability granted to the Valkyrie granted by the Staff *trigger* at the same time, and you put them on the stack in the order you want. They don't *resolve* at the same time, but anyway, you'd have tapped Valkyrie some time earlier, so there's no issue here. The creature returns and the Valkyrie untaps, in an order of your choice. With a free sacrifice outlet, you can rinse and repeat.
However the more of these resolutions I read the more I’m starting to side with the 6 damage interpretation of Athreos...
Athreos, God of Passage + Teysa poses no rules issue, there is no need for interpretation, the result is crystal clear. You get two separate Athreos triggers for each creature you own that dies. You can target the same opponent twice, or two different opponents in multiplayer. If they want the creature card to stay in the graveyard, they have to pay 3 life for both triggers. If they'd rather let it go back to your hand, they can just let the first trigger to resolve do it and ignore the other. Similar to the Valkyrie situation above, if you discard the creature card inbetween the two triggers, you don't get the chance to return it with the second trigger to resolve, because it's a new object, your opponent can ignore the trigger and it still stays there.
Yes, The way rezzahan put it, I can follow. It is indeed crystal clear.
Adarkar Valkyrie problem seems to stem from the ambiguity of the word "ability":
112.1. An ability can be one of three things:
112.1a. An ability can be a characteristic an object has that lets it affect the game. An object's abilities are defined by its rules text or by the effect that created it. Abilities can also be granted to objects by rules or effects. (Effects that grant abilities usually use the words "has," "have," "gains," or "gain.") Abilities generate effects. (See rule 609, "Effects.")
112.1b. An ability can be something that a player has that changes how the game affects the player. A player normally has no abilities unless granted to that player by effects.
112.1c. An ability can be an activated or triggered ability on the stack. This kind of ability is an object. (See section 6, "Spells, Abilities, and Effects.")
The question is : Does "causes a triggered ability of a permanent you control to trigger" mean
"causes a triggered ability(112.1a) of a permanent you control to create a triggered ability(112.1c)" or "causes a triggered ability(112.1c) whose source is a permanent you control to be created"? Adarkar Valkyrie's case is the latter but not the former. Of course, even if two instances of the triggered ability are created, it doesn't do much for the reason already mentioned.
Adarkar Valkyrie problem seems to stem from the ambiguity of the word "ability":
The question is : Does "causes a triggered ability of a permanent you control to trigger" mean
"causes a triggered ability(112.1a) of a permanent you control to create a triggered ability(112.1c)" or "causes a triggered ability(113.1c) whose source is a permanent you control to be created"? Adarkar Valkyrie's case is the latter but not the former. Of course, even if two instances of the triggered ability are created, it doesn't do much for the reason already mentioned.
Delayed triggered abilities are not exactly the kind of things covered by C.R. 113.1a-c, except while they're on the stack (C.R. 113.1c). C.R. 603.7a explains that "[d]elayed triggered abilities are created during the resolution of ... abilities", among other circumstances, and C.R. 603.7a-b explain when such abilities generally trigger. A more salient example than Adarkar Valkyrie may be Duskmantle Guildmage's first ability.
EDIT (Mar. 11, 2020): Some rules were renumbered with Core Set 2020.
What about Reveillark? I understand that i get the trigger twice with Teysa, because the leaves the battlefield trigger is caused by death. But let's say that i only have two creatures with power 2 or less in the graveyard when Reveillark dies, can i let one of the triggers resolve, sacrifice the two creatures that i get back, then let the second trigger resolve and get those two same creatures back?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I´m a bit confused about how Teysa Karlov works. Does creatures with a triggered ability when they die work like Death's-Head Buzzard or is it only non-creature spells like Dark Prophecy that works?
Dies triggers do not trigger from the graveyard (which is why Yixlid Jailer does not stop them) so they must trigger from the battlefield. And on the battlefield, they are permanents.
Also, as less of a rules reason and more of a common sense reason, she is an Orzhov Legendary in a set where the Orzhov Mechanic is a dies trigger and it wouldn't make a lot of sense for her not to work with her guild's mechanic.
Example: Two creatures are on the battlefield along with an artifact that has the ability "Whenever a creature dies, you gain 1 life." Someone casts a spell that destroys all artifacts, creatures, and enchantments. The artifact's ability triggers twice, even though the artifact goes to its owner's graveyard at the same time as the creatures.
EDIT: Correctness edit after comment 9 was posted.
EDIT (Feb. 13): Correctness edit.
EDIT (Sep. 19, 2021): Edited to conform to rule changes with Adventures in the Forgotten Realms.
EDIT (Sep. 20, 2021): Edited slightly.
“Haunt” on a permanent means “When this permanent is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, exile it haunting target creature.” This is a dies trigger, so Teysa causes it to trigger twice. But the card can only be exiled haunting one target creature. So the second Haunt ability would do nothing.
Permanents you control are only things (cards or tokens) on the battlefield. So when the Haunted creature dies, it causes your card to trigger, but it isn't causing a permanent you to control to trigger. As a card in exile is not a permanent you control.
Hope that helps explain things for you.
https://twitter.com/EliShffrn/status/1080899049081823233
https://twitter.com/EliShffrn/status/1080970560236969984
https://twitter.com/EliShffrn/status/1080972480238387201
https://twitter.com/EliShffrn/status/1080986378421231616
https://twitter.com/EliShffrn/status/1081004932084379648
The release notes on Teysa are also likely helpful:
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/ravnica-allegiance-release-notes-2019-01-16?c
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
It's actually "if you exploited", meaning that as part of the creature's enter trigger, the game asks "Did you sacrifice a creature as an additional cost when paying for CARDNAME?" If so, you get the enter trigger. Exploit does work with Panharmonicon, though. And you only have to exploit once to do get both triggers.
On phasing:
While Panharmonicon could get you two copies of an exploit creature's ability, you would have to sacrifice two creatures to get the benefit twice.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
Adarkar Valkyrie's activated ability does create a delayed triggered ability that waits to trigger until another creature dies. However, it doesn't interact particularly well with Teysa's ability because it specifies that you return "that card" to the battlefield. When the creature dies, the delayed triggered ability would trigger twice due to Teysa's ability, but you can only return "that card" to the battlefield once. Even if you could somehow sacrifice the creature again in between the two instances of the triggered ability, the creature would become a new object in the graveyard and it would no longer be "that card" (i.e. the creature card that was originally the creature targeted by the Valkyrie's ability).
I disagree. A delayed triggered ability created by the effect of an activated ability (such as Adarkar Valkyrie's) has the same source as that activated ability (C.R. 603.7e). Thus, for the purposes of Teysa, the delayed triggered ability in question is of a permanent.EDIT (Mar. 11, 2020): Struck out some text.
EDIT (Jul. 16, 2021): Strike out remaining text in view of rule changes with Adventures in the Forgotten Realms.
I’m not the greatest at interpreting wording on cards, but wasn’t it previously established that the wording on Thornbite Staff combos off with Adarkar Valkyrie because both things occur “at the same time”.
I do understand what your saying about the creature not being there for the second instance. It was my logic for arguing that Athreos can’t trigger twice because of the wording the creature should be back in your hand for the second instance. However there seems to be a growing number of people that have stong arguments for the case of a double trigger and a six life pentalty from Athreos.
I think I followed the logic here and I understand why it does not work with the Valkyrie. Tap to target ONE specific creature that is waiting for death. When it dies. Then the second instance comes, creature is gone. This is similar to why Arena Rector and the word Exile does not work.
However the more of these resolutions I read the more I’m starting to side with the 6 damage interpretation of Athreos...
I really do like Teysa at face value. It’s quite a learning curve to figure out all these interactions with wording on different cards. I hope I can get all the mecanisms straight soon. I’d really like to build a deck around this commander.
Teysa's first ability likewise applies to Arena Rector's last ability and the delayed triggered ability created by Adarkar Valkyrie's activated ability. Regardless of whether those abilities triggered once or several times, however, if the card they refer to isn't in the graveyard when they resolve, or has already left that graveyard in the meantime, it simply isn't exiled or returned to hand, as the case may be (C.R. 400.7).Teysa's first ability likewise applies to Arena Rector's last ability. Regardless of whether that ability triggered once or several times, however, if the card it refers to isn't in the graveyard when it resolves, or has already left that graveyard in the meantime, that card simply isn't exiled (C.R. 400.7). See also this thread.EDIT (Sep, 19, 2021): Edited to conform to rule changes with Adventures in the Forgotten Realms.
EDIT (Sep. 20, 2021): Edited slightly.
EDIT (Jan. 26, 2021): Correctness edit.
With Athreos, the trigger asks for life payment and if it is not paid, the creature gets returned. So if it is paid for the first resolving trigger, the creature card doesn't move, so the second trigger can perform all of its instructions again. Hence a total life payment of 6 is nessessary to keep the creature card in the yard through both triggers.
Otoh, a resolving trigger, that moves the card out of the graveyard, leaves no card to move for the second.
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
Thanks, I think I finally got it clear.
Yes, The way rezzahan put it, I can follow. It is indeed crystal clear.
The question is : Does "causes a triggered ability of a permanent you control to trigger" mean
"causes a triggered ability(112.1a) of a permanent you control to create a triggered ability(112.1c)" or "causes a triggered ability(112.1c) whose source is a permanent you control to be created"? Adarkar Valkyrie's case is the latter but not the former. Of course, even if two instances of the triggered ability are created, it doesn't do much for the reason already mentioned.
EDIT (Mar. 11, 2020): Some rules were renumbered with Core Set 2020.