Wrath stops regeneration, wether it comes from a resolving spell or abilty, or from a static ability. Regeneration just won't apply. So the Troll will be destroyed. Regeneration, after all, is always a replacement effect, just the source is different in this case.
In the case of 'regenerate / can't be regenerated', the event of destroying the creature will not be replaced, even though a replacement effect exists. While this seems to be the intuitive way this should be handled, I'm really not sure this is consistent with other replacement effects, and also I can't find a rule to support this.
Rule 614.6 says
614.6. If an event is replaced, it never happens. A modified event occurs instead, which may in turn trigger abilities. Note that the modified event may contain instructions that can’t be carried out, in which case the impossible instruction is simply ignored.
If you apply this to the 'regenerate / can't be regenerated' example, you would get a 'destroy the creature'-event which 'does not happen', but is replaced by regeneration (tapping, removing damage etc.). Regeneration 'can't be carried out', though, so this instruction should be 'ignored'. This leaves us with a destruction which does not happen, and no tapping and damage removal. So the creature should live.
What rule am I missing?
The phrase "it can't be regenerated" means, that the regeneration relacement effect cannot be applied. Since it cannot be applied, this replacement effect is simply ignored. If it is the only replacement effect that could have been applied, the original event is not replaced.
If we try another example:
Player A controls Leovold, Emissary of Trest
Player B controls Notion Thief
It's player A's turn, he has drawn his first card in his draw step. Now he casts Divination. What happens?
Player B gets the first card, but what about the second? Player B can't draw more than one card, and player A can't draw because his draws get replaced by player B drawing a card. I'd say nobody gets the second card, but this would eliminate the event of drawing a card altogether, which would contradict the regenerate-example.
So how can this be explained?
Since the card draws from Divination are not possible to begin with due to Leovold, there is no event to replace by Notion Thief. Nothing happens, neither player A nor player get to draw any cards of the Divination.
614.7. If a replacement effect would replace an event, but that event never happens, the replacement effect simply doesn’t do anything.
No, the colossus won't get any -1/-1 counters. Dark Temper has a selfreplacement effect, and those must always be applied first. So since Dark Temper doesn't try to deal damage to the Colossus anymore, but tries to destroy it instead, wither has no effect.
Since the card draws from Divination are not possible to begin with due to Leovold, there is no event to replace by Notion Thief. Nothing happens, neither player A nor player get to draw any cards of the Divination.
I think you misread. The cards from Divination *can* be drawn since the Leovold player is casting it. These draws are replaced with Notion Thief but then Leovold applies to the modified event and stops the card draw. The end result is the same as you said, but Notion Thief does apply.
The relevant rule for the original situation:
701.14c. Neither activating an ability that creates a regeneration shield nor casting a spell that creates a regeneration shield is the same as regenerating a permanent. Effects that say that a permanent can't be regenerated don't preclude such abilities from being activated or such spells from being cast; rather, they cause regeneration shields to not be applied.
Also, Phytohydra and Solemnity is the same as Thief and Leovold. Damage is replaced with counters and then no counters are placed because Solemnity stops the modified event (which is already modified). It doesn't look to the future to see if the modified event can do anything; it just looks at the event as it exists now and says "no counters".
Since the card draws from Divination are not possible to begin with due to Leovold, there is no event to replace by Notion Thief. Nothing happens, neither player A nor player get to draw any cards of the Divination.
I think you misread. The cards from Divination *can* be drawn since the Leovold player is casting it. These draws are replaced with Notion Thief but then Leovold applies to the modified event and stops the card draw. The end result is the same as you said, but Notion Thief does apply.
Yeah, I misread. Though the first card from Divination then is drawn by player B. The second simply cannot be drawn, since player A's draw is again replaced by player B drawing, but Leovold prohibits a second draw for player B that turn.
edit:
As to why this is different from the regeneration example, the original draw is possible, it then gets replaced by the Thief, and the new draw is impossible. It is not impossible to apply the replacement effect, Leovold just makes the instructions thereof impossible. Otoh, the "can't be regenerated" clause prohibits the application of the replacement effect itself.
Since the card draws from Divination are not possible to begin with due to Leovold, there is no event to replace by Notion Thief. Nothing happens, neither player A nor player get to draw any cards of the Divination.
I think you misread. The cards from Divination *can* be drawn since the Leovold player is casting it. These draws are replaced with Notion Thief but then Leovold applies to the modified event and stops the card draw. The end result is the same as you said, but Notion Thief does apply.
Yeah, I misread. Though the first card from Divination then is drawn by player B. The second simply cannot be drawn, since player A's draw is again replaced by player B drawing, but Leovold prohibits a second draw for player B that turn.
Oh, right....since it is player A's turn, player B has not drawn a card yet. My mistake
Mossbridge Troll however has regeneration as a replacement effect for whenever it would be destroyed.
Does Wrath stop it regening as normal like if it had a regular activated ability regenerate?
I'm a simple Magic player since 1 year ago from China. Now I live in New Jersey.
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
The phrase "it can't be regenerated" means, that the regeneration relacement effect cannot be applied. Since it cannot be applied, this replacement effect is simply ignored. If it is the only replacement effect that could have been applied, the original event is not replaced.
Since the card draws from Divination are not possible to begin with due to Leovold, there is no event to replace by Notion Thief. Nothing happens, neither player A nor player get to draw any cards of the Divination.
No, the colossus won't get any -1/-1 counters. Dark Temper has a selfreplacement effect, and those must always be applied first. So since Dark Temper doesn't try to deal damage to the Colossus anymore, but tries to destroy it instead, wither has no effect.
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
The relevant rule for the original situation:
Also, Phytohydra and Solemnity is the same as Thief and Leovold. Damage is replaced with counters and then no counters are placed because Solemnity stops the modified event (which is already modified). It doesn't look to the future to see if the modified event can do anything; it just looks at the event as it exists now and says "no counters".
Yeah, I misread. Though the first card from Divination then is drawn by player B. The second simply cannot be drawn, since player A's draw is again replaced by player B drawing, but Leovold prohibits a second draw for player B that turn.
edit:
As to why this is different from the regeneration example, the original draw is possible, it then gets replaced by the Thief, and the new draw is impossible. It is not impossible to apply the replacement effect, Leovold just makes the instructions thereof impossible. Otoh, the "can't be regenerated" clause prohibits the application of the replacement effect itself.
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)