If your Commander has an alternate cost such as Dash or an activated ability such as Ninjitsu or Commander Ninjitsu, does the "Commander Tax" apply if it is played from Command Zone a second or more times? That is, for example, if my Commander with Dash is destroyed, does the cost to Dash it from the Command Zone increase? If not, why not?
"I think the Dash cost will be affected by the Commander Tax as long as the commander is in the command zone" will be argued as "someone's opinion" rather than any OFFICIAL rule on the subject. I've heard the argument that because Dash is an alternate cost, the tax does not apply. Why not? Your still "casting" it, are you not?
by paying an alternative cost (including 0) "rather than [paying]" the spell's mana cost (e.g. with dash [C.R. 702.108a]), or
"without paying its mana cost" (which is another form of alternative cost),
that alternative cost does not affect additional costs (such as the so-called "commander tax" under C.R. 903.8), and neither does it affect cost reductions (C.R. 118.9d, 118.9). This is true regardless of—
whether or not reminder text saying that additional costs must still be paid appears on the card, as is the case for Geode Golem (in any case, reminder text "has no game function" [C.R. 207.2, 207.2a]).
Note that due to the formula for figuring a spell's total cost, the only way to "avoid" required additional costs (at least in part) when casting a spell is if a cost reduction effect reduces some or all of those costs (C.R. 601.2f). One example is found in the emerge ability, which includes an alternative cost but offers a way to reduce the spell's total cost if "you chose to pay this spell's emerge cost" (C.R. 702.118a).
Note also that the "commander tax" applies only if a player casts a commander they own from the command zone, not if they do so from any other zone, including their hand (C.R. 903.8; review C.R. 400.1). Notably, the "commander tax" doesn't apply if a player brings their commander from the command zone to the battlefield without it having been cast (examples include Derevi, Empyrial Tactician's last ability and commander ninjutsu [C.R. 702.48d]) (C.R. 903.8).
For example, if Kolaghan is your commander and you cast Kolaghan from the command zone by paying its dash cost rather than its mana cost, the "commander tax" applies to casting Kolaghan this way (C.R. 903.8, 118.9d, 118.9, 702.102a).
If your Commander has an alternate cost such as Dash or an activated ability such as Ninjitsu or Commander Ninjitsu, does the "Commander Tax" apply if it is played from Command Zone a second or more times? That is, for example, if my Commander with Dash is destroyed, does the cost to Dash it from the Command Zone increase? If not, why not?
"I think the Dash cost will be affected by the Commander Tax as long as the commander is in the command zone" will be argued as "someone's opinion" rather than any OFFICIAL rule on the subject. I've heard the argument that because Dash is an alternate cost, the tax does not apply. Why not? Your still "casting" it, are you not?
It depends on the exact ability. If it makes you cast the card, additional costs such as the commander tax apply.
Dash does have you cast the card: it represents an alternative cost to cast it, so commander tax applies if you cast Zurgo Bellstriker from the command zone that way.
702.108a. Dash represents three abilities: two static abilities that function while the card with dash is on the stack, one of which may create a delayed triggered ability, and a static ability that functions while the object with dash is on the battlefield. "Dash [cost]" means "You may cast this card by paying [cost] rather than its mana cost," "If this spell's dash cost was paid, return the permanent this spell becomes to its owner's hand at the beginning of the next end step," and "As long as this permanent's dash cost was paid, it has haste." Paying a card's dash cost follows the rules for paying alternative costs in rules 601.2b and 601.2f-h.
Yuriko, The Tiger's shadow's Commander Ninjutsu, on the other hand, does not. It's an activated ability which effects puts Yuriko on the battlefield directly, she's never cast, so the commander tax doesn't apply.
702.48d. Commander ninjutsu is a variant of the ninjutsu ability that also functions while the card with commander ninjutsu is in the command zone. "Commander ninjutsu [cost]" means "[Cost], Reveal this card from your hand or from the command zone, Return an unblocked attacking creature you control to its owner's hand: Put this card onto the battlefield tapped and attacking."
Such abilities that allow you to put your commander directly on the battlefield from the command zone avoiding the tax are extremely rare, Derevi, Empyrial Tactician being the only other example I'm aware of. Command Beacon is another, albeit indirect way, to avoid the tax, but that's about it.
I'm a former judge (lapsed), who keeps up to date on rules and policy. Keep in mind that judges' answers aren't necessarily more valid than those of people who aren't judges; what matters is we can quote the rules to back up our answers. When in doubt, ask for such quotes.
I would note that you can’t cast a commander from the command zone using Ninjutsu. That ability does require the card to be in your hand, and casting a commander from your hand neither invokes nor increases the commander tax.
Okay I am curious, say I have a commander that has a cmc of say URG, and that commander dies. I then put out a artifact that reduces the casting cost of a creature by 2 generic mana. Does that reduction cover the commander tax on the creature?
Okay I am curious, say I have a commander that has a cmc of say URG, and that commander dies. I then put out a artifact that reduces the casting cost of a creature by 2 generic mana. Does that reduction cover the commander tax on the creature?
Recall that under C.R. 601.2f, in general, the cost to cast a spell equals mana cost plus additional costs (such as the so-called "commander tax" [C.R. 903.8]) minus cost reductions (such as those of Planar Gate or Urza's Incubator). See also my comment 2.
Thus, for example, the cost to cast a spell (including the "commander tax", if any) can be reduced by the effect of Planar Gate or Urza's Incubator. Note that the effects of both permanents each affect the cost reduction of certain creature spells only, and don't apply to other spells (including noncreature commander spells).
I then put out a artifact that reduces the casting cost of a creature by 2 generic mana. Does that reduction cover the commander tax on the creature?
Yes.
601.2f The player determines the total cost of the spell. Usually this is just the mana cost. Some spells have additional or alternative costs. Some effects may increase or reduce the cost to pay, or may provide other alternative costs. Costs may include paying mana, tapping permanents, sacrificing permanents, discarding cards, and so on. The total cost is the mana cost or alternative cost (as determined in rule 601.2b), plus all additional costs and cost increases, and minus all cost reductions. If multiple cost reductions apply, the player may apply them in any order. If the mana component of the total cost is reduced to nothing by cost reduction effects, it is considered to be 0. It can’t be reduced to less than 0. Once the total cost is determined, any effects that directly affect the total cost are applied. Then the resulting total cost becomes “locked in.” If effects would change the total cost after this time, they have no effect.
"mana cost or alternative cost": mana cost of GUR
"additional costs and cost increases": additional cost of 2 ("commander tax")
"cost reductions": Planar Gate's 2
GUR + 2 = 2GUR 2GUR - 2 = GUR
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Why bother with mere rulings when so many answers can be found in the Rules?
Okay I am curious, say I have a commander that has a cmc of say URG, and that commander dies. I then put out a artifact that reduces the casting cost of a creature by 2 generic mana. Does that reduction cover the commander tax on the creature?
Specifically, it will negate only the first instance of commander tax. But if the creature dies again and now has a commander tax of 4, it will reduce it by 2, leaving you to still pay URG+4-2 for a total of 2URG.
"I think the Dash cost will be affected by the Commander Tax as long as the commander is in the command zone" will be argued as "someone's opinion" rather than any OFFICIAL rule on the subject. I've heard the argument that because Dash is an alternate cost, the tax does not apply. Why not? Your still "casting" it, are you not?
Note that due to the formula for figuring a spell's total cost, the only way to "avoid" required additional costs (at least in part) when casting a spell is if a cost reduction effect reduces some or all of those costs (C.R. 601.2f). One example is found in the emerge ability, which includes an alternative cost but offers a way to reduce the spell's total cost if "you chose to pay this spell's emerge cost" (C.R. 702.118a).
Note also that the "commander tax" applies only if a player casts a commander they own from the command zone, not if they do so from any other zone, including their hand (C.R. 903.8; review C.R. 400.1). Notably, the "commander tax" doesn't apply if a player brings their commander from the command zone to the battlefield without it having been cast (examples include Derevi, Empyrial Tactician's last ability and commander ninjutsu [C.R. 702.48d]) (C.R. 903.8).
For example, if Kolaghan is your commander and you cast Kolaghan from the command zone by paying its dash cost rather than its mana cost, the "commander tax" applies to casting Kolaghan this way (C.R. 903.8, 118.9d, 118.9, 702.102a).
See also this thread.
EDIT (Jan. 23, 2020): Corrected rule citation. Some other rules were renumbered with Core Set 2020.
Dash does have you cast the card: it represents an alternative cost to cast it, so commander tax applies if you cast Zurgo Bellstriker from the command zone that way. Yuriko, The Tiger's shadow's Commander Ninjutsu, on the other hand, does not. It's an activated ability which effects puts Yuriko on the battlefield directly, she's never cast, so the commander tax doesn't apply. Such abilities that allow you to put your commander directly on the battlefield from the command zone avoiding the tax are extremely rare, Derevi, Empyrial Tactician being the only other example I'm aware of. Command Beacon is another, albeit indirect way, to avoid the tax, but that's about it.
My art blog
Claims:
The kicker variant in WWK will be "Kicker without a kicked effect." - proven wrong Jan 2010 : 2 wrongs
Decks:
:symu::symb: Bloodchief Ascension - Modern
:symb::symr: Rakdos, the Defiler - EDH
:symu::symb::symw: Sharuum the Hegemon - EDH
:symw::symu::symb: Zur the Enchanter - EDH
Thus, for example, the cost to cast a spell (including the "commander tax", if any) can be reduced by the effect of Planar Gate or Urza's Incubator. Note that the effects of both permanents each affect the cost reduction of certain creature spells only, and don't apply to other spells (including noncreature commander spells).
I'll assume you meant that the mana cost is URG; the cmc is always a number.
Yes.
Let's say the commander is Animar, Soul of Elements which has been cast from the command zome once before, and the artifact is Planar Gate.
"mana cost or alternative cost": mana cost of GUR
"additional costs and cost increases": additional cost of 2 ("commander tax")
"cost reductions": Planar Gate's 2
GUR + 2 = 2GUR
2GUR - 2 = GUR
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
Because I have more decks than fit in a signature
Useful Resources:
MTGSalvation tags
EDHREC
ManabaseCrafter