Say I use the Scarab God's ability to create a token copy of Erebos, God of the Dead and I do not have devotion for erebos to be a creature. Do the rules of Magic implode? It can't be an enchantment, yet it does have 4/4 power toughness, but it's not a creature, or any permanent type that I can determine. Does that token die upon creation or something?
Why do you think it can't be an enchantment? It surely can, and it surely is. Multiple card types are absolutely possible, and nothing in this scenario makes it not be an enchantment. The token is a copy of the card (so everything printed on it), with three exceptions: power/toughness is 4/4, it's black, and it's a zombie (which is a subtype corresponding to the creature card type, so if the token isn't a creature, it won't be a zombie, but this does not remove the enchantment type). Which means, the printed power/toughness of 5/7 is replaced with the new 4/4, it's already black from being a copy of Erebos, so nothing changes here, and its a zombie overwriting any other creature subtype, thus losing the God subtype. So you have a black Erebos token, that's a legendary enchantment creature - Zombie, with power/toughness 4/4, that is not a creature unless you have enough devotion.
HOORAY! I guess I read the scarab god as making it a black zombie creature, not just black zombie.
You may be confusing overwriting subtypes with super types. Because Scarab God specfies it makes a zombie, and not a zombie in addition to other types, the creature will lose all other creature subtypes other than zombie.
This isn't the same with super types and card types. The classic example is that Blood Moon makes Darksteel Citadel into an Artifact Land- Mountain that taps for R and does not have indestructible.
HOORAY! I guess I read the scarab god as making it a black zombie creature, not just black zombie.
You may be confusing overwriting subtypes with super types. Because Scarab God specfies it makes a zombie, and not a zombie in addition to other types, the creature will lose all other creature subtypes other than zombie.
This isn't the same with super types and card types. The classic example is that Blood Moon makes Darksteel Citadel into an Artifact Land- Mountain that taps for R and does not have indestructible.
Card types, too, are overwritten by new card types unless specified, that they are gained "in addition", that the object "is still a ...", or that it "becomes an artifact creature". Supertypes, however, are gained in addition by default.
I don't see what the Blood Moon example is supposed to mean here, since it only affects subtype, so of course the card types remain unaffected.
If I may ask for a quick hypothetical clarification, even if Scarab God were to remove Erebos' enchantment type (which he actually doesn't, as said before), there wouldn't be any problem with putting an Erebos token without any card type on the battlefield, right?
He'd merely stay around, lurking like the creepy black formless abomination he'd be (his ability could still be activated, and he'd still prevent opponents from gaining life). After all, such a permanent can already be made (c.f. neurok transmuter gatherer rulings for instance) and there's a rule (110.4c) that explicitly says that if a permanent would happen to lose all its types it's still there, and still a permanent. So it would behave in a similar (albeit slightly weirder) way, wouldn't it?
legendaryenchantment creature - Zombie, with power/toughness 4/4, that is not a creature unless you have enough devotion.Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
You may be confusing overwriting subtypes with super types. Because Scarab God specfies it makes a zombie, and not a zombie in addition to other types, the creature will lose all other creature subtypes other than zombie.
This isn't the same with super types and card types. The classic example is that Blood Moon makes Darksteel Citadel into an Artifact Land- Mountain that taps for R and does not have indestructible.
Card types, too, are overwritten by new card types unless specified, that they are gained "in addition", that the object "is still a ...", or that it "becomes an artifact creature". Supertypes, however, are gained in addition by default.
I don't see what the Blood Moon example is supposed to mean here, since it only affects subtype, so of course the card types remain unaffected.
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
He'd merely stay around, lurking like the creepy black formless abomination he'd be (his ability could still be activated, and he'd still prevent opponents from gaining life). After all, such a permanent can already be made (c.f. neurok transmuter gatherer rulings for instance) and there's a rule (110.4c) that explicitly says that if a permanent would happen to lose all its types it's still there, and still a permanent. So it would behave in a similar (albeit slightly weirder) way, wouldn't it?
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)