How are her ETB abilities interacting via Panharmonicon? I read her ETB abilities as separate because there isn't a "then" conjoining them that would dictate they resolve together. So, can I stack the ETBs such that she enters with seven +1/1 counters (from Nezahal, Primal Tide's power), then place an additional seven +1/1 counters based on the Panharmonicon copying the ETB first ETB ability (or should it be eight +1 counters since at the time the ability resolves Prime Speaker Zegana is now the greatest power creature at 8?), then I would resolve her second ETB ability twice (her initial and the Panharmonicon copy) to draw 15 cards twice (or 16 cards twice if the Panharmonicon copy of her first ETB ability checks herself for power)?
Or is it some sort of combination of resolving abilities in between (i.e. resolve all her original ETB abilities to draw 8 cards in this case, then resolve the Panharmonicon copies to then draw 15 or 16 cards)?
Thank you for any clarification!
I fixed Nezahal and Zegana's names for card tags to work. The spelling must be exact. -MadMage
Zegana's first ability is not a trigger so that ability doesn't interact with Panharmonicon at all. Instead, that ability is a static one that creates a replacement effect. It is applied when Zegana enters the battlefield. So if cast, it applies when the Zegana spell resolves, if not cast, it applies when whatever is making her enter the battlefield happens. If Nezahal is your biggest creature at that time, she enters with 7 counters, and is an 8/8 from the very first moment on the battlefield. The second ability will trigger twice, because it is a trigger that fits Panharmonicon's condition.
When the two triggers of the second ability resolve, they look at Zegana's power at that time, so players can increase or decrease her power before a trigger resolves to make you draw more/less than the expected 8 cards. This applies to each trigger seperately. Meaning, tha drawing a Giant Growth of the first trigger allows you to cast that spell at her in time to make you draw more cards of the second. But without any interference, you draw 2*8 cards total in this scenario.
Zegana's first ability is not a trigger. Triggered abilities start with "when", "whenever" or "at". The first ability merely states Zegana enters with the counters, so it's static. Zegana enters with the 7 counters already on her, and Panharmonicon has no effect on it.
Also, notice Zegana never counts herself for "greatest power among other creatures you control"
Zegana's second ability triggers twice because of Panharmonicon. When each instance of the ability resolves, you draw 8 cards (or whatever Zegana's current power is, if that somehow changes), and that's it.
EDIT:
I read her ETB abilities as separate because there isn't a "then" conjoining them that would dictate they resolve together.
They are separated because there is a line break between them.
Whoops, I'm so sorry about misspelling the card tags - I thought I'd check them. Thank you MadMage for correcting them.
Ahhhh, thanks everyone, I totally get it now. I see now that the first ability isn't a triggered ability because it doesn't have the "when", "whenever", etc. that you've pointed out and so doesn't interact with Panharmonicon. That makes the idea of resolving her actual triggered ability easier to understand. Thank you all so much!
EDH game. Nezahal, Primal Tide and Panharmonicon are on the field. I cast Prime Speaker Zegana and she resolves.
How are her ETB abilities interacting via Panharmonicon? I read her ETB abilities as separate because there isn't a "then" conjoining them that would dictate they resolve together. So, can I stack the ETBs such that she enters with seven +1/1 counters (from Nezahal, Primal Tide's power), then place an additional seven +1/1 counters based on the Panharmonicon copying the ETB first ETB ability (or should it be eight +1 counters since at the time the ability resolves Prime Speaker Zegana is now the greatest power creature at 8?), then I would resolve her second ETB ability twice (her initial and the Panharmonicon copy) to draw 15 cards twice (or 16 cards twice if the Panharmonicon copy of her first ETB ability checks herself for power)?
Or is it some sort of combination of resolving abilities in between (i.e. resolve all her original ETB abilities to draw 8 cards in this case, then resolve the Panharmonicon copies to then draw 15 or 16 cards)?
Thank you for any clarification!
I fixed Nezahal and Zegana's names for card tags to work. The spelling must be exact. -MadMage
Current EDH
UThassa, God of the Sea devotion control
WRGTana, the Bloodsower & Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa partners weenie tokens
UUnesh, Criosphinx Sovereign Sphinx tribal
WUTaigam, Ojutai Master tokens on the rebound spellslinger
GRhonas the Indomitable green creature beats
UGRashmi, Eternities Crafter ETB tribal
Retired EDH
WURGKynaios and Tiro of Meletis group hug
URThe Locust God draw swarm
UTalrand, Sky Summoner funsies blue spells
WBObzedat, Ghost Council life gain/drain
Panharmonicon
Prime Speaker Zegana
Zegana's first ability is not a trigger so that ability doesn't interact with Panharmonicon at all. Instead, that ability is a static one that creates a replacement effect. It is applied when Zegana enters the battlefield. So if cast, it applies when the Zegana spell resolves, if not cast, it applies when whatever is making her enter the battlefield happens. If Nezahal is your biggest creature at that time, she enters with 7 counters, and is an 8/8 from the very first moment on the battlefield. The second ability will trigger twice, because it is a trigger that fits Panharmonicon's condition.
When the two triggers of the second ability resolve, they look at Zegana's power at that time, so players can increase or decrease her power before a trigger resolves to make you draw more/less than the expected 8 cards. This applies to each trigger seperately. Meaning, tha drawing a Giant Growth of the first trigger allows you to cast that spell at her in time to make you draw more cards of the second. But without any interference, you draw 2*8 cards total in this scenario.
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
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(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
Zegana's first ability is not a trigger. Triggered abilities start with "when", "whenever" or "at". The first ability merely states Zegana enters with the counters, so it's static. Zegana enters with the 7 counters already on her, and Panharmonicon has no effect on it.
Also, notice Zegana never counts herself for "greatest power among other creatures you control"
Zegana's second ability triggers twice because of Panharmonicon. When each instance of the ability resolves, you draw 8 cards (or whatever Zegana's current power is, if that somehow changes), and that's it.
EDIT:
They are separated because there is a line break between them.
Ahhhh, thanks everyone, I totally get it now. I see now that the first ability isn't a triggered ability because it doesn't have the "when", "whenever", etc. that you've pointed out and so doesn't interact with Panharmonicon. That makes the idea of resolving her actual triggered ability easier to understand. Thank you all so much!
Current EDH
UThassa, God of the Sea devotion control
WRGTana, the Bloodsower & Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa partners weenie tokens
UUnesh, Criosphinx Sovereign Sphinx tribal
WUTaigam, Ojutai Master tokens on the rebound spellslinger
GRhonas the Indomitable green creature beats
UGRashmi, Eternities Crafter ETB tribal
Retired EDH
WURGKynaios and Tiro of Meletis group hug
URThe Locust God draw swarm
UTalrand, Sky Summoner funsies blue spells
WBObzedat, Ghost Council life gain/drain