You can’t use the Library of Leng ability to place a discarded card on top of your library when you discard a card as a cost, because costs aren’t effects.
The Comprehensive Rules define costs in their own section, CR 117, in which this rule appears:
117.12. Some spells, activated abilities, and triggered abilities read, “[Do something]. If [a player] [does, doesn’t, or can’t], [effect].” or “[A player] may [do something]. If [that player] [does, doesn’t, or can’t], [effect].” The action [do something] is a cost, paid when the spell or ability resolves. The “If [a player] [does, doesn’t, or can’t]” clause checks whether the player chose to pay an optional cost or started to pay a mandatory cost, regardless of what events actually occurred.
According to this rule, Battlefield Scavenger has you discard a card as a cost. More extremely, according to this rule, Akoum Flameseeker applies a discard as a cost.
But is that ruling up-to-date? Is it even general, considering how rarely effects mention effects? Indeed, a Gatherer search confirms that, apart from some self-referential abilities, the term is basically used on token doublers, Library of Leng, and reminder texts.
I can find the rule stating that costs are actions when they're not payments. I've never found the backup for Library of Leng. Rules question: Does Library of Leng apply if you activate Akoum Fireseeker?
Does Library of Leng apply if someone uses Brain Pry and names a card really in your hand?
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No. Costs are not effects. A "Cost" is what you pay to activate an ability or cast a spell. Here is the current rule on "Effects"
609.1. An effect is something that happens in the game as a result of a spell or ability. When a spell, activated ability, or triggered ability resolves, it may create one or more one-shot or continuous effects. Static abilities may create one or more continuous effects. Text itself is never an effect.
Scavenger, Flameseeker, and Brain Pry all have the player discard cards as the result of an ability so they are effects and Library applies to them. In that case, there is a cost associated with the effect, but the effect is still imposing the cost. The same cannot be said for something like Sinister Concoction which is not an effect and Library does not apply.
Scavenger, Flameseeker, and Brain Pry all have the player discard cards as the result of an ability so they are effects and Library applies to them. In that case, there is a cost associated with the effect, but the effect is still imposing the cost.
I want to believe that.
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For an ability, they read (cost): (effect). You can spot them easily by looking for a colon. Like what WizardMN said, using the example of Sinister Concoction, everything that comes before the colon is the cost, and the effect comes after the colon.
For spells, they articulate the cost. Like Tormenting Voice, which clearly articulates that the discard is part of the cost of the spell.
Edit: struck the comment, need to learn to keep my mouth shut in the Magic Rulings section.
For an ability, they read (cost): (effect). You can spot them easily by looking for a colon. Like what WizardMN said, using the example of Sinister Concoction, everything that comes before the colon is the cost, and the effect comes after the colon.
For spells, they articulate the cost. Like Tormenting Voice, which clearly articulates that the discard is part of the cost of the spell.
The very rule the OP mentions already proves this wrong. Spells and activated abilities have costs, yes, but they are NOT the only things in the game with costs. Effects can have costs, too. That's the point of this thread.
117.1. A cost is an action or payment necessary to take another action or to stop another action from taking place. To pay a cost, a player carries out the instructions specified by the spell, ability, or effect that contains that cost.
So Library of Leng's ruling is just overzealous / underspecified reminder that things before colons and additional costs to cast spells don't fall under its replacement.
An effect can be imposing a cost, but it is not a cost.
I'd like Leng's ruling to be touched up, but what are you going to do.
Thanks fellas.
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So Library of Leng's ruling is just overzealous / underspecified reminder that things before colons and additional costs to cast spells don't fall under its replacement.
An effect can be imposing a cost, but it is not a cost.
I'd like Leng's ruling to be touched up, but what are you going to do.
Thanks fellas.
I think it would be more accurate to say that the costs and effects are separate and entirely different, but not mutually exclusive. The text shown in this thread are both categories simultaneously, and Library of Leng's oracle text is inclusive in that it just cares whether or not the discard is attached to an effect. Anything that happens in resolution is an effect, even if that involves paying a cost. Maybe a more clear equivalent would be how black is not green, but a card that cares about black cards will affect black-green ones just fine.
I definitely see how the gatherer ruling can be interpreted like that, though.
The Comprehensive Rules define costs in their own section, CR 117, in which this rule appears:
According to this rule, Battlefield Scavenger has you discard a card as a cost. More extremely, according to this rule, Akoum Flameseeker applies a discard as a cost.
But is that ruling up-to-date? Is it even general, considering how rarely effects mention effects? Indeed, a Gatherer search confirms that, apart from some self-referential abilities, the term is basically used on token doublers, Library of Leng, and reminder texts.
I can find the rule stating that costs are actions when they're not payments. I've never found the backup for Library of Leng. Rules question: Does Library of Leng apply if you activate Akoum Fireseeker?
Does Library of Leng apply if someone uses Brain Pry and names a card really in your hand?
Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].
Scavenger, Flameseeker, and Brain Pry all have the player discard cards as the result of an ability so they are effects and Library applies to them. In that case, there is a cost associated with the effect, but the effect is still imposing the cost. The same cannot be said for something like Sinister Concoction which is not an effect and Library does not apply.
I want to believe that.
Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].
You should believe it.
For an ability, they read (cost): (effect). You can spot them easily by looking for a colon. Like what WizardMN said, using the example of Sinister Concoction, everything that comes before the colon is the cost, and the effect comes after the colon.
For spells, they articulate the cost. Like Tormenting Voice, which clearly articulates that the discard is part of the cost of the spell.
Edit: struck the comment, need to learn to keep my mouth shut in the Magic Rulings section.
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Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsThe very rule the OP mentions already proves this wrong. Spells and activated abilities have costs, yes, but they are NOT the only things in the game with costs. Effects can have costs, too. That's the point of this thread.
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An effect can be imposing a cost, but it is not a cost.
I'd like Leng's ruling to be touched up, but what are you going to do.
Thanks fellas.
Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].
I think it would be more accurate to say that the costs and effects are separate and entirely different, but not mutually exclusive. The text shown in this thread are both categories simultaneously, and Library of Leng's oracle text is inclusive in that it just cares whether or not the discard is attached to an effect. Anything that happens in resolution is an effect, even if that involves paying a cost. Maybe a more clear equivalent would be how black is not green, but a card that cares about black cards will affect black-green ones just fine.
I definitely see how the gatherer ruling can be interpreted like that, though.