Hey there! I have a rules question here, but first some back ground:
With the new Brawl Format, a friend of mine and myself have been doing what we call Block Constructed Brawl. Should be self explanatory, but just in case we are picking blocks to build Brawl decks around with our current block for tonight being Scars of Mirrodin Block.
I am building a Karn Liberated deck and I am very curious in Caged Sun, but I am not sure how the interaction would work. Basically, there are no Wastes in this block so I have to use basic lands which produce colored mana. I do remember before wastes that in Commander there was a mana substitution rule where if you produce mana of a color not in your identity you would produce colorless instead.
Being that I have to run basics, the ruling question is this: would Caged Sun look at me trying to produce say Black mana from a swamp and produce that 1 extra mana at which point they both become colorless mana? or would the Caged Sun not even recognize the Swamp trying to make Black mana and just ignore the trigger entirely? or is everything here just very illegal since Wastes were printed and I just need to try to run Karn with the 3 or 4 colorless producing lands in the block?
I know it is a very weird edge case, but any help is appreciated!
If there are no Wastes, then you must use only lands with no basic land types in a Commander deck commanded by Karn Liberated.
903.5d A card with a basic land type may be included in a Commander deck only if each color of mana it could produce is included in the commander’s color identity.
Neither may you use any card that refers to a color of mana.
903.4. The Commander variant uses color identity to determine what cards can be in a deck with a certain commander. The color identity of a card is the color or colors of any mana symbols in that card’s mana cost or rules text, plus any colors defined by its characteristic-defining abilities (see rule 604.3) or color indicator (see rule 204).
These are rules for Commander which I'm assuming you intend to abide. According to them, your deck is not legal.
I don't find any rules about replacing mana.
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I did some more searching, and the replacement effect was removed in January 2016.
It was basically because of colorless mana.
But your second quote does leave one more question, and I will simplify the situation.
Could I run Nim Deathmantle in a Kozilek, Butcher of Truth Commander deck?
Links replaced by card tags, which are simpler to use and more practical. Follow the instructions in the private message I sent you. -MadMage
I did some more searching, and the replacement effect was removed in January 2016.
It was basically because of colorless mana.
But your second quote does leave one more question, and I will simplify the situation.
Could I run Nim Deathmantle in a Kozilek, Butcher of Truth Commander deck?
Yes you can run Nim Deathmantle in ANY Commander deck. Nim Deathmantle has no coloured mana symbols in its cost or rules text, and has no colour indicator. So it has no colour. The fact that it creates makes the creature BLACK zombie tokens has no bearing on this fact.
Hope that helps.
Edit - After comment #6. Helps if I stop to read the card properly.
Nim Deathmantle has no coloured mana symbols in its cost or rules text, and has no colour indicator. So it has no colour. The fact that it creates BLACK zombie tokens has no bearing on this fact.
Nim Deathmantle turns the equipped creature into a black zombie, it doesn't create tokens.
The rules update with Ravnica Allegiance changed the Brawl option's rules in a way that affects comment 1.
In general, if your commander's color identity is colorless, neither a card with a basic land type nor a card with a color identity other than colorless can be included in your Commander deck (C.R. 903.5c-d).
In the Brawl option, however, once Ravnica Allegiance is released (and in prereleases), if your commander's color identity is colorless, your Commander deck "may contain any number of basic lands of one basic land type of [your] choice" (C.R. 903.11e). Note that this does not apply to the traditional Commander variant.
With the new Brawl Format, a friend of mine and myself have been doing what we call Block Constructed Brawl. Should be self explanatory, but just in case we are picking blocks to build Brawl decks around with our current block for tonight being Scars of Mirrodin Block.
I am building a Karn Liberated deck and I am very curious in Caged Sun, but I am not sure how the interaction would work. Basically, there are no Wastes in this block so I have to use basic lands which produce colored mana. I do remember before wastes that in Commander there was a mana substitution rule where if you produce mana of a color not in your identity you would produce colorless instead.
Being that I have to run basics, the ruling question is this: would Caged Sun look at me trying to produce say Black mana from a swamp and produce that 1 extra mana at which point they both become colorless mana? or would the Caged Sun not even recognize the Swamp trying to make Black mana and just ignore the trigger entirely? or is everything here just very illegal since Wastes were printed and I just need to try to run Karn with the 3 or 4 colorless producing lands in the block?
I know it is a very weird edge case, but any help is appreciated!
Neither may you use any card that refers to a color of mana.
These are rules for Commander which I'm assuming you intend to abide. According to them, your deck is not legal.
I don't find any rules about replacing mana.
Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].
It was basically because of colorless mana.
But your second quote does leave one more question, and I will simplify the situation.
Could I run Nim Deathmantle in a Kozilek, Butcher of Truth Commander deck?
Links replaced by card tags, which are simpler to use and more practical. Follow the instructions in the private message I sent you. -MadMage
Yes you can run Nim Deathmantle in ANY Commander deck. Nim Deathmantle has no coloured mana symbols in its cost or rules text, and has no colour indicator. So it has no colour. The fact that it
createsmakes the creature BLACKzombie tokenshas no bearing on this fact.Hope that helps.
Edit - After comment #6. Helps if I stop to read the card properly.
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In general, if your commander's color identity is colorless, neither a card with a basic land type nor a card with a color identity other than colorless can be included in your Commander deck (C.R. 903.5c-d).
In the Brawl option, however, once Ravnica Allegiance is released (and in prereleases), if your commander's color identity is colorless, your Commander deck "may contain any number of basic lands of one basic land type of [your] choice" (C.R. 903.11e). Note that this does not apply to the traditional Commander variant.