Hello, i'm into ninjas and such, building ninja edh deck
and suddenly i was wondering?
If your ninja is unblocked ...
if you give your ninja DOUBLE-STRIKE (with equipment)(or other ways, but than u need white/red splash) after you ninjutsu him in? does his triggerd ability, when ninja deals combat dmg to player doubles ? (i think its yes, but asking here and would be awsome if yes!!!)
Ninja of the deep hours (u draw 2 cards)?
Ink-eye (double reanimation)
Silent bladeoni (double look in hands, pick 2 creature)
Higure (double ninja tutor)
Okiba (discard 4 cards!!!!!)
Skullsnatcher (4 cards in graveyard remover)
Troat Slitter (destroy 2 nonblack creatures)
Walker of secrets (u can look 2 times in his hands kinda useless)
Sakashima student can double clone himself (useless)
than i thgaught about doubling triggerd abilitys?
what if u mix in? Blade of selves? Illusionist bracers?
and Panharmonicon,this one i cant figure out, technicly the ninjas enter the battlefield so panharmonion triggers? and if it triggers (since the ninja is unblockable and their triggerd ability of "when ninja deals combat dmg to player" goes of? does panharmonicon triggers it another time?
You will get a combat damage trigger off your ninja each time it deals combat damage to a player. If the ninja has double strike when the combat damage step begins, there will be two combat damage steps, and the ninja will get to deal combat damage in both. So it deals combat damage in the first one, and you get a trigger, then players can do stuff. Then the same thing happens in the next combat damage step.
Note, that equip has a sorcery tinming restriction, so you usually can't equip during combat.
Blade of Selves does not work with a ninja entering the field via ninjutsu, since it never was declared as attacker. If the ninja is simply declared as attacker in the declare attackers step while being equipped with the Blade, you get copies of the ninja, and each one will get its own trigger should it get to deal combat damage to a player.
Triggers are not activated abilities, they are triggered abilities, so Illusionist's Bracers does nothing.
Panharmonicon also has no interaction with ninja triggers since those trigger of of combat damage, not of of a creature or artifact entering the battlefield.
Double Strike works for any and all deal combat damage abilities. So yes, all of the Ninja's you mentioned get the double effect you spoke of.
The same is true for copies of the creatures from Blade of Selves assuming the copies are also unblocked and deal damage to the opponent. However Illusionist's Bracers copies activated abilities which are written (cost):(effect), while the Ninjas and other damage effects are triggered abilities which start with When, Whenever, or At.
Panharmonicon does care about triggered abilities, but the wrong trigger condition here. The pan cares about creatures or artifacts entering the battlefield, while all the Ninjas have damage triggers.
blades of shelf says an ability (it does not specify if its triggerd or activated)???
I dont want to copy the ninjutsu. I want to copy the: when ninja deals combat dmg to player (that a triggerd ability if i'm correct?)Are their cards that can copy triggerd ability's?
A triggered ability can be identified by the words "when," "whenever," or "at" if u use google...
I still dont understand why it does not work whit your explenation.
u say: Note, that equip has a sorcery tinming restriction, so you usually can't equip during combat
what you mean by that? If i ninjutsi a ninja i can equip him right? when can i not?
Illusionist's Bracers won't let you copy an ability that says "Whenever [this creature] deals combat damage to a player..." or any other triggered ability, including myriad (C.R. 602.1, 702.115a); the only abilities that can be activated are activated abilities (generally, those with a colon, ":", in their text [C.R. 601.2a]) (C.R. 602.1c; see also C.R. 603.2a). Answering the question, "Are the[re] cards that copy trigger[e]d abilit[ies]?", is out of scope for this forum.
Panharmonicon affects only certain enters-the-battlefield abilities (generally, an enters-the-battlefield ability says "[When/Whenever] [something] enters the battlefield..." [C.R. 603.6a]), not other abilities, including myriad or an ability of the form "Whenever [this creature] deals combat damage to a player..." (C.R. 702.115a, 602.1). However, no card with ninjutsu currently hasas of Modern Horizons, Azra Smokeshaper is the only card with both ninjutsu and an ability that says "When [this creature] enters the battlefield...", not even Sakashima's Student.
What Rezzahan means is that you can activate an equip ability only "any time you could cast a sorcery", which means only during your main phase while you have priority and the stack is empty (C.R. 702.6a, 307.5) (which is normally also the only time you could normally cast a spell other than an instant [C.R. 115.1a]), and not at any other time, including during combat.
EDIT (Aug. 27, 2019): Edited because new information has come to light and because one rule was renumbered with Core Set 2020.
EDIT (Sep. 8, 2019): Edited.
EDIT (Jan. 12, 2020): Correction.
u say: Note, that equip has a sorcery tinming restriction, so you usually can't equip during combat
what you mean by that? If i ninjutsi a ninja i can equip him right?
You can't do that in time to benefit from any equipment for the ongoing attack. The first opportunity to use a regular, unmodified* equip ability on the ninjutsued ninja would be your post-combat main phase.
* there are instant speed 'equip' abilities like on Cranial Plating and cards that let you equip at instant speed or when a creature enters the battlefield like Sigarda's Aid
about panhormonicon, u say pan cares about entering the battlefield. If i ninjitsu a ninja? does that not count: as entering the battlefield?
It counts as entering the battlefield, but Panharmonicon does not directly care for anything entering the battlefield, but doubles triggers of abilities triggering from creatures/artifacts entering the battlefield (those include abilities of the creature/artifact itself as well as other permanents you control at the time).
Since ninjas in general only have abilities that trigger on combat damage dealt to an opponent and none that trigger on entering the battlefield, panharmonicon is irrelevant for them, as long as no other cards are involved.
Edit: Updated wording to fix technical inaccuracies
The ninjutsu ability can only be used after declaring blockers, before combat damage is dealt, so during combat.
The ninjutsu ability can only be used with an unblocked attacking creature, which can only exist during combat after blockers have been declared, but usualy exist until the combat phase ends. So you could use ninjutsu in the combat damage step or even the end of combat step. What FirstSwordOfBant wanted to say is, that you have to use ninjustu in the declare blockers step (or the first combat damage step) in order to get a combat damage trigger of the ninja.
[...] but Panharmonicon does not trigger directly on anything entering the battlefield, [...]
Panharmonicon has no triggered abilities itself, so it cannot trigger, ever. It has a static ability that changes the rules of the game in that it makes any triggered ability of an artifact or creature entering the battlefield trigger an additional time.
Well, I tried to keep it less technical to be better understandable, but I guess I got lost somewhere in between (also should have actually reread Panharmonicon)
Fixed my original post to avoid further confusion - thank you for the correction.
and suddenly i was wondering?
If your ninja is unblocked ...
if you give your ninja DOUBLE-STRIKE (with equipment)(or other ways, but than u need white/red splash) after you ninjutsu him in? does his triggerd ability, when ninja deals combat dmg to player doubles ? (i think its yes, but asking here and would be awsome if yes!!!)
Ninja of the deep hours (u draw 2 cards)?
Ink-eye (double reanimation)
Silent bladeoni (double look in hands, pick 2 creature)
Higure (double ninja tutor)
Okiba (discard 4 cards!!!!!)
Skullsnatcher (4 cards in graveyard remover)
Troat Slitter (destroy 2 nonblack creatures)
Walker of secrets (u can look 2 times in his hands kinda useless)
Sakashima student can double clone himself (useless)
than i thgaught about doubling triggerd abilitys?
what if u mix in? Blade of selves? Illusionist bracers?
and Panharmonicon,this one i cant figure out, technicly the ninjas enter the battlefield so panharmonion triggers? and if it triggers (since the ninja is unblockable and their triggerd ability of "when ninja deals combat dmg to player" goes of? does panharmonicon triggers it another time?
Note, that equip has a sorcery tinming restriction, so you usually can't equip during combat.
Blade of Selves does not work with a ninja entering the field via ninjutsu, since it never was declared as attacker. If the ninja is simply declared as attacker in the declare attackers step while being equipped with the Blade, you get copies of the ninja, and each one will get its own trigger should it get to deal combat damage to a player.
Triggers are not activated abilities, they are triggered abilities, so Illusionist's Bracers does nothing.
Panharmonicon also has no interaction with ninja triggers since those trigger of of combat damage, not of of a creature or artifact entering the battlefield.
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
The same is true for copies of the creatures from Blade of Selves assuming the copies are also unblocked and deal damage to the opponent. However Illusionist's Bracers copies activated abilities which are written (cost):(effect), while the Ninjas and other damage effects are triggered abilities which start with When, Whenever, or At.
Panharmonicon does care about triggered abilities, but the wrong trigger condition here. The pan cares about creatures or artifacts entering the battlefield, while all the Ninjas have damage triggers.
I dont want to copy the ninjutsu. I want to copy the: when ninja deals combat dmg to player (that a triggerd ability if i'm correct?)Are their cards that can copy triggerd ability's?
A triggered ability can be identified by the words "when," "whenever," or "at" if u use google...
I still dont understand why it does not work whit your explenation.
u say: Note, that equip has a sorcery tinming restriction, so you usually can't equip during combat
what you mean by that? If i ninjutsi a ninja i can equip him right? when can i not?
Panharmonicon affects only certain enters-the-battlefield abilities (generally, an enters-the-battlefield ability says "[When/Whenever] [something] enters the battlefield..." [C.R. 603.6a]), not other abilities, including myriad or an ability of the form "Whenever [this creature] deals combat damage to a player..." (C.R. 702.115a, 602.1). However,
no card with ninjutsu currently hasas of Modern Horizons, Azra Smokeshaper is the only card with both ninjutsu and an ability that says "When [this creature] enters the battlefield...", not even Sakashima's Student.What Rezzahan means is that you can activate an equip ability only "any time you could cast a sorcery", which means only during your main phase while you have priority and the stack is empty (C.R. 702.6a, 307.5) (which is normally also the only time you could normally cast a spell other than an instant [C.R. 115.1a]), and not at any other time, including during combat.
EDIT (Aug. 27, 2019): Edited because new information has come to light and because one rule was renumbered with Core Set 2020.
EDIT (Sep. 8, 2019): Edited.
EDIT (Jan. 12, 2020): Correction.
You can't do that in time to benefit from any equipment for the ongoing attack. The first opportunity to use a regular, unmodified* equip ability on the ninjutsued ninja would be your post-combat main phase.
* there are instant speed 'equip' abilities like on Cranial Plating and cards that let you equip at instant speed or when a creature enters the battlefield like Sigarda's Aid
It counts as entering the battlefield, but Panharmonicon does not directly care for anything entering the battlefield, but doubles triggers of abilities triggering from creatures/artifacts entering the battlefield (those include abilities of the creature/artifact itself as well as other permanents you control at the time).
Since ninjas in general only have abilities that trigger on combat damage dealt to an opponent and none that trigger on entering the battlefield, panharmonicon is irrelevant for them, as long as no other cards are involved.
Edit: Updated wording to fix technical inaccuracies
W(W/U)U Ephara - Flash & Taxes W(W/U)U || B(B/G)G Meren - Circle of Life B(B/G)G
RGW Marath - Ever shifting Wilds RGW || (U/R)C(W/B) Breya - Artificial Dominion (U/R)C(W/B)
UBR Becket Brass - take what you can, give nothing back UBR
The ninjutsu ability can only be used with an unblocked attacking creature, which can only exist during combat after blockers have been declared, but usualy exist until the combat phase ends. So you could use ninjutsu in the combat damage step or even the end of combat step. What FirstSwordOfBant wanted to say is, that you have to use ninjustu in the declare blockers step (or the first combat damage step) in order to get a combat damage trigger of the ninja.
Panharmonicon has no triggered abilities itself, so it cannot trigger, ever. It has a static ability that changes the rules of the game in that it makes any triggered ability of an artifact or creature entering the battlefield trigger an additional time.
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
Fixed my original post to avoid further confusion - thank you for the correction.
W(W/U)U Ephara - Flash & Taxes W(W/U)U || B(B/G)G Meren - Circle of Life B(B/G)G
RGW Marath - Ever shifting Wilds RGW || (U/R)C(W/B) Breya - Artificial Dominion (U/R)C(W/B)
UBR Becket Brass - take what you can, give nothing back UBR
I found a card that can copy the triggerd ability of the ninjas.
Strionic Resonator
correct?
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)