So, scenario 1: Active Player A can make infinite tokens. Player B has a combo to make players sacrifice creatures infinite times. Player A makes 1 million elves, player B recurs Fleshbag Marauder 10 million times, Player A responds by making 10 million elves...
I know the rule is that the active player has to stop taking the action that is preventing the game from progressing. So, Active player A sacrifices all their creatures.
Similarly, if Player A can take infinite turns, but can't draw cards, attack, or do anything of relevance, they eventually have to stop taking turns and let the game continue.
Scenario 2: Active Player A puts into play a number of cards that prevent attacking, drawing cards, casting spells, activating abilities of creatures or artifacts, etc. No players at the table are able to take any action. The game is ruled a draw. It is possible Player A had a card with an ability from the hand, but they are not obligated to reveal it. (Would this change if it was known information that they had that card in hand?)
Scenario 3: Player A sets up the same lock, except, they have Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver in play, which they are able to activate. They have exiled everyone else's libraries, hands and graveyards. If they activate Ashiok's -X ability, they will put a creature into play and lose to a Pandemonium on the battlefield. Can this player continue using the +2 ability, or just not activating Ashiok, and call the game a draw? Or are they obligated to advance the game, even if it means losing?
I am unsure on what the rules are surrounding drawing a game when you are able to prevent it from being a draw.
I had an opponent who tried to lock the game and win with a planeswalker emblem, but I responded to the final lockpiece by killing his planeswalker and the game could not longer progress, and it became a draw. Frustrating way for a game to end, and I know that player will force the draw if he is no longer able to win. I'm just curious as to whether he is obligated to progress the game if he is able, just like the first scenario.
Your scenario 1 doesn't seem to asking a question so much as stating things you know. If you want confirmation that what you stated is correct then, yes you are correct. Scenario 2, it is very difficult to answer questions about hypothetical situations that may not even be possible. This would probably be a judge call that would vary by person. Scenario 3, how would they be forced to kill themselves with Pandemonium?
All I can really say is if the game is in an endless loop that is comprised of repeated decisions, then the active play must make a different decision, even if that decision would result in their loss.
On scenario 2:
The hand is a hidden zone even if its contents are known or even revealed, every card in the hand is hidden information still. Also, a loop must be broken if possible by taking an action/choice offered by the pieces involved. This card in the hand is not part of the standstill loop, so using it is not mandatory, and the player can decide to simply let the loop continue and end the game in a draw.
719.5. No player can be forced to perform an action that would end a loop other than actions called for by objects involved in the loop.
On scenario 3:
Pandemonium is a may trigger, so even if the only legal target is the controller of the creature, that player can simply choose to not have the creature deal damage. Ashiok's controller can choose to keep the loop of everyone passing priority running, because Ashiok is not an object involved in the loop, so 719.5 saves him.
On scenario 2:
The hand is a hidden zone even if its contents are known or even revealed, every card in the hand is hidden information still. Also, a loop must be broken if possible by taking an action/choice offered by the pieces involved. This card in the hand is not part of the standstill loop, so using it is not mandatory, and the player can decide to simply let the loop continue and end the game in a draw.
719.5. No player can be forced to perform an action that would end a loop other than actions called for by objects involved in the loop.
On scenario 3:
Pandemonium is a may trigger, so even if the only legal target is the controller of the creature, that player can simply choose to not have the creature deal damage. Ashiok's controller can choose to keep the loop of everyone passing priority running, because Ashiok is not an object involved in the loop, so 719.5 saves him.
Thank you. Pandemonium was a bad example. I was thinking of anything really, even Blood seeker. Interesting to know that they are not obligated to break the loop.
New Scenario:
Player A has Ward of Bones, made token copies of Null Profusion, Donated them to each opponent. Nobody has instant or sorceries in hand. Nobody can play or draw cards. Player A has Opposition, and uses it to tap down opposing creatures before each combat. Thus, the game keeps going and going, with nothing changing.
From what I understand above, this results in a draw? Or no, because Opposition is "contributing" to the loop.
Indeed, this is not a draw. In this new scenario, Opposition is very much an object involved in the loop, so its controller has to stop tapping creatures with it and break the stalemate, even if it is not in his interest.
I know the rule is that the active player has to stop taking the action that is preventing the game from progressing. So, Active player A sacrifices all their creatures.
Similarly, if Player A can take infinite turns, but can't draw cards, attack, or do anything of relevance, they eventually have to stop taking turns and let the game continue.
Scenario 2: Active Player A puts into play a number of cards that prevent attacking, drawing cards, casting spells, activating abilities of creatures or artifacts, etc. No players at the table are able to take any action. The game is ruled a draw. It is possible Player A had a card with an ability from the hand, but they are not obligated to reveal it. (Would this change if it was known information that they had that card in hand?)
Scenario 3: Player A sets up the same lock, except, they have Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver in play, which they are able to activate. They have exiled everyone else's libraries, hands and graveyards. If they activate Ashiok's -X ability, they will put a creature into play and lose to a Pandemonium on the battlefield. Can this player continue using the +2 ability, or just not activating Ashiok, and call the game a draw? Or are they obligated to advance the game, even if it means losing?
I am unsure on what the rules are surrounding drawing a game when you are able to prevent it from being a draw.
I had an opponent who tried to lock the game and win with a planeswalker emblem, but I responded to the final lockpiece by killing his planeswalker and the game could not longer progress, and it became a draw. Frustrating way for a game to end, and I know that player will force the draw if he is no longer able to win. I'm just curious as to whether he is obligated to progress the game if he is able, just like the first scenario.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
All I can really say is if the game is in an endless loop that is comprised of repeated decisions, then the active play must make a different decision, even if that decision would result in their loss.
The hand is a hidden zone even if its contents are known or even revealed, every card in the hand is hidden information still. Also, a loop must be broken if possible by taking an action/choice offered by the pieces involved. This card in the hand is not part of the standstill loop, so using it is not mandatory, and the player can decide to simply let the loop continue and end the game in a draw.
On scenario 3:
Pandemonium is a may trigger, so even if the only legal target is the controller of the creature, that player can simply choose to not have the creature deal damage. Ashiok's controller can choose to keep the loop of everyone passing priority running, because Ashiok is not an object involved in the loop, so 719.5 saves him.
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
Thank you. Pandemonium was a bad example. I was thinking of anything really, even Blood seeker. Interesting to know that they are not obligated to break the loop.
New Scenario:
Player A has Ward of Bones, made token copies of Null Profusion, Donated them to each opponent. Nobody has instant or sorceries in hand. Nobody can play or draw cards. Player A has Opposition, and uses it to tap down opposing creatures before each combat. Thus, the game keeps going and going, with nothing changing.
From what I understand above, this results in a draw? Or no, because Opposition is "contributing" to the loop.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)