So, I learned today that when Vein Drinker activates its ability, it deals damage to the targeted creature first. The thing that's driving me crazy is that every time I read the text, I can't figure out how I'm supposed to reach that conclusion. I keep expecting see the word 'then' to start off the 2nd sentence but it's not there.
So the question is why is a 'then' not required here to indicate that Vein Drinker deals it damage first?
Also, from a rules perspective, what, if anything, would be different if there *was* a 'then' to lead off the 2nd sentence?
For Vein Drinker's activated ability, first Vein Drinker deals damage, then the target creature, rather than both dealing damage simultaneously, because there are two action verbs (here, both "deals") in two different places. Whether or not the word "then" appears in the ability is irrelevant here. In general, each instance of an action verb indicates a separate, sequential action (compare Vein Drinker with Char; under C.R. 608.2c, you "apply the rules of English to the text" of a spell when following its instructions; see also this thread).
For Vein Drinker's activated ability, first Vein Drinker deals damage, then the target creature, rather than both dealing damage simultaneously, because there are two action verbs (here, both "deals") in two different places. Whether or not the word "then" appears in the ability is irrelevant here. In general, each instance of an action verb indicates a separate, sequential action (compare Vein Drinker with Char; under C.R. 608.2c, you "apply the rules of English to the text" of a spell when following its instructions; see also this thread).
It seems like both "draw" and "discard" are action verbs, but the card for some reason includes 'then.' Is it a style situation where including the 'then' is just simpler than saying "Draw 2 cards. Discard 2 cards."?
For Vein Drinker's activated ability, first Vein Drinker deals damage, then the target creature, rather than both dealing damage simultaneously, because there are two action verbs (here, both "deals") in two different places. Whether or not the word "then" appears in the ability is irrelevant here. In general, each instance of an action verb indicates a separate, sequential action (compare Vein Drinker with Char; under C.R. 608.2c, you "apply the rules of English to the text" of a spell when following its instructions; see also this thread).
It seems like both "draw" and "discard" are action verbs, but the card for some reason includes 'then.' Is it a style situation where including the 'then' is just simpler than saying "Draw 2 cards. Discard 2 cards."?
It's just a difference in template because the fact that all actions must be performed in the order written takes precedence. The "then" is more important in looting effects because it reminds players that they can discard the cards they just drew, but the situations in which the sequential nature of Vein Drinker, Tahngarth, Talruum Hero and other proto-fight abilities matter are rare. The "then" would only serve to confuse because, unlike looters, no further player input is required.
It seems like both "draw" and "discard" are action verbs, but the card for some reason includes 'then.' Is it a style situation where including the 'then' is just simpler than saying "Draw 2 cards. Discard 2 cards."?
As far as the rules are concerned, "Draw two cards, then discard...", is no different from wordings such as "Draw two cards. Discard..." or "Draw two cards and discard..." (my comment 2 already explained why). The question of why a particular wording appears on a card rather than another wording is a question that, often, only Magic R&D can answer.
Do note that, the vast majority of the time, the fact that cards like Vein Drinker deal damage first doesn't matter. Even if Vein Drinker would deal enough damage to kill the targeted creature, it won't actually die until SBAs are checked, after Vein Drinker's ability resolves. So Vein Drinker still gets hit back.
It only matters if Vein Drinker has something like Wither or Infect, in which case the targeted creature's P/T will be lowered before it gets its chance to deal damage.
Do note that, the vast majority of the time, the fact that cards like Vein Drinker deal damage first doesn't matter. Even if Vein Drinker would deal enough damage to kill the targeted creature, it won't actually die until SBAs are checked, after Vein Drinker's ability resolves. So Vein Drinker still gets hit back.
It only matters if Vein Drinker has something like Wither or Infect, in which case the targeted creature's P/T will be lowered before it gets its chance to deal damage.
That's the key right here. Wither/Infect makes the fact that this wording is split up (as compared to the Fight wording) important.
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So, I learned today that when Vein Drinker activates its ability, it deals damage to the targeted creature first. The thing that's driving me crazy is that every time I read the text, I can't figure out how I'm supposed to reach that conclusion. I keep expecting see the word 'then' to start off the 2nd sentence but it's not there.
So the question is why is a 'then' not required here to indicate that Vein Drinker deals it damage first?
Also, from a rules perspective, what, if anything, would be different if there *was* a 'then' to lead off the 2nd sentence?
Thank you. I see the difference between something like Vein Drinker and Char, as you pointed out. But how would Vein Drinker differ from something like, say, Faithless Looting?
It seems like both "draw" and "discard" are action verbs, but the card for some reason includes 'then.' Is it a style situation where including the 'then' is just simpler than saying "Draw 2 cards. Discard 2 cards."?
It's just a difference in template because the fact that all actions must be performed in the order written takes precedence. The "then" is more important in looting effects because it reminds players that they can discard the cards they just drew, but the situations in which the sequential nature of Vein Drinker, Tahngarth, Talruum Hero and other proto-fight abilities matter are rare. The "then" would only serve to confuse because, unlike looters, no further player input is required.
As far as the rules are concerned, "Draw two cards, then discard...", is no different from wordings such as "Draw two cards. Discard..." or "Draw two cards and discard..." (my comment 2 already explained why). The question of why a particular wording appears on a card rather than another wording is a question that, often, only Magic R&D can answer.
It only matters if Vein Drinker has something like Wither or Infect, in which case the targeted creature's P/T will be lowered before it gets its chance to deal damage.
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That's the key right here. Wither/Infect makes the fact that this wording is split up (as compared to the Fight wording) important.