I couldn't find a post that already asked this and I am just looking for confirmation. If Hapatra is out, and the Hydra get's -1/-1 counters from its second ability, does Hapatra's second ability trigger?
Yes, if you control both Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons and Phyrexian Hydra, then Hapatra will trigger when the Hydra's ability puts a -1/-1 counter on it. As you are putting a -1/-1 counter on a creature, due to the Hydra's ability.
Yes, if you control both Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons and Phyrexian Hydra, then Hapatra will trigger when the Hydra's ability puts a -1/-1 counter on it. As you are putting a -1/-1 counter on a creature, due to the Hydra's ability.
This was my initial thought as well, but I could find no confirmation in the CR. One could argue to the opposite that the opponent as the controller of the damage's source would be the one putting the counters on the Hydra as the original event and thus the modified event being due to his effect/creature.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'm not certain of this conclusion without any rules backing it up. And I've been looking for quite a while.
Yes, if you control both Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons and Phyrexian Hydra, then Hapatra will trigger when the Hydra's ability puts a -1/-1 counter on it. As you are putting a -1/-1 counter on a creature, due to the Hydra's ability.
This was my initial thought as well, but I could find no confirmation in the CR. One could argue to the opposite that the opponent as the controller of the damage's source would be the one putting the counters on the Hydra as the original event and thus the modified event being due to his effect/creature.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'm not certain of this conclusion without any rules backing it up. And I've been looking for quite a while.
Interesting, I hadn't considered that.
How I was reading and interepting the ability of Phyrexian Hyrda, is that it was a static ability that causes a replacement effect. And as controller of the Hydra, we control the replacement effect, so WE are putting the counters on, not our opponent.
But would be interesting to know if the CR actually see this differently.
I would agree that the controller of the Hydra is putting the counters on it. This is because the damage is prevented (meaning the opponent's effect now is doing nothing) and then we add counters. If it was worded in a way similar to Soul-Scar Mage (which directly replaces the damage with something else) I could see the argument that the damage is still placing the counters. However, that does not appear to be the case.
An interesting Tidbit from the gatherer Rulings for the Hydra:
If damage dealt to Phyrexian Hydra can’t be prevented (due to Leyline of Punishment, for example), it will be dealt as normal and won’t cause Phyrexian Hydra to put -1/-1 counters on itself.
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I know, the prevetion of the replacement is not interesting here, what i mean is the wording of "put -1/-1 counters on itself", further implying the case for the Hydra itself, and therefore it's controller being the one placing the counters.
While this doesn't replace a proper ruling, it might give an insight into what would probably be the intended ruling.
You are overthinking this, guys. When a static ability of a permanent speaks in the second person, it speaks to the controller of the permanent. It's the Hydra's controller who is instructed to put counters on it. On Soul-Scar Mage, it is the controller of the Mage who is instructed to put counters on a creature of an opponent if a source they control would deal noncombat damage to that creature. It is true that replacement effects don't have controllers, and we wouldn't generally say that static abilities themselves have controllers either, because they are not objects themselves, but they exist on objects that do have controllers, and they often speak directly to that controller. In the case of the Hydra, we know who the controller of the Hydra is at the time damage would be dealt, so we know who is putting counters on the Hydra.
I'm a former judge (lapsed), who keeps up to date on rules and policy. Keep in mind that judges' answers aren't necessarily more valid than those of people who aren't judges; what matters is we can quote the rules to back up our answers. When in doubt, ask for such quotes.
Yes, it does matter. Hapatras Triggered ability only watches for -1/-1 Counters that are palced by it's controller. When you control Hapatra, and your opponent plays something like Cartouche of Ambition to place a counter on one of your creatures, Hapatra's ability doesn't trigger because YOU didn't place the counter.
Hello, I was searching about Hapatra and Phyrexian Hydra and found this post.
My question was more about how Phyrexian Hydra ability works.
Do we put a stack of -1/-1 counters in one go or do we put multiple times a -1/-1 counter ?
Reading the card I am a little confused, I was doing it in one go but my fellow players said it reads a 'Put "A" -1/-1 counter on Phyrexian Hydra for each 1 damage prevented this way' so it is one at a time.
Hello, I was searching about Hapatra and Phyrexian Hydra and found this post.
My question was more about how Phyrexian Hydra ability works.
Do we put a stack of -1/-1 counters in one go or do we put multiple times a -1/-1 counter ?
Reading the card I am a little confused, I was doing it in one go but my fellow players said it reads a 'Put "A" -1/-1 counter on Phyrexian Hydra for each 1 damage prevented this way' so it is one at a time.
You put them all on in one shot. Basically you prevent all the damage, calculate how much damage is prevented, and then put that many counters on the Hydra. Also in general you should just make a new thread if you have a question. It makes it easier to catalogue and for people to search for answers to questions later if they are separated out.
The counters are put on Phyrexian Hydra at the same time. In general, actions of the form "[Do something] for each [something]" are done "in one go", in your words. Thus, it wouldn't work differently in this respect than if Phyrexian Hydra said "Put X -1/-1 counters on Phyrexian Hydra, where X is the amount of damage prevented this way." See also this thread. In this case, however, Hapatra's last ability will trigger at most once even if "you put" multiple -1/-1 counters on Phyrexian Hydra at the same time (C.R. 603.2, especially C.R. 603.2c; C.R. 700.1; compare Hapatra with Flourishing Defenses; see also this thread).
Phyrexian Hydra
I couldn't find a post that already asked this and I am just looking for confirmation. If Hapatra is out, and the Hydra get's -1/-1 counters from its second ability, does Hapatra's second ability trigger?
Hope that helps.
This was my initial thought as well, but I could find no confirmation in the CR. One could argue to the opposite that the opponent as the controller of the damage's source would be the one putting the counters on the Hydra as the original event and thus the modified event being due to his effect/creature.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'm not certain of this conclusion without any rules backing it up. And I've been looking for quite a while.
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
Interesting, I hadn't considered that.
How I was reading and interepting the ability of Phyrexian Hyrda, is that it was a static ability that causes a replacement effect. And as controller of the Hydra, we control the replacement effect, so WE are putting the counters on, not our opponent.
But would be interesting to know if the CR actually see this differently.
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
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I know, the prevetion of the replacement is not interesting here, what i mean is the wording of "put -1/-1 counters on itself", further implying the case for the Hydra itself, and therefore it's controller being the one placing the counters.
While this doesn't replace a proper ruling, it might give an insight into what would probably be the intended ruling.
Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].
My question was more about how Phyrexian Hydra ability works.
Do we put a stack of -1/-1 counters in one go or do we put multiple times a -1/-1 counter ?
Reading the card I am a little confused, I was doing it in one go but my fellow players said it reads a 'Put "A" -1/-1 counter on Phyrexian Hydra for each 1 damage prevented this way' so it is one at a time.
You put them all on in one shot. Basically you prevent all the damage, calculate how much damage is prevented, and then put that many counters on the Hydra. Also in general you should just make a new thread if you have a question. It makes it easier to catalogue and for people to search for answers to questions later if they are separated out.