I have an Hardened Scales and a Metallic Mimic in play. Mimic is on Mutant. I cast a Simic Initiate. Will the Initiate enters the battlefield with 3 or 4 counters on it?. Bet for 4, since the Graft triggers and the Mimic triggers appears to be two different instance of counters being placed on the creature.
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The part of the Graft ability that causes the creature to enter the battlefield with +1/+1 counters on it isn't a triggered ability. Neither is Metallic Mimic's. They are static abilities that create a replacement effect that causes the counters to be added as the creature enters the battlefield. Hardened Scales is also a replacement effect, and since these are all modifying the single event of the creature entering the battlefield, it applies once. You get 3 counters.
Here, Hardened Scales's ability, Metallic Mimic's last ability, and graft generate replacement effects (C.R. 702.57a, 614.1c, 614.1a). Note that only part of graft is a triggered ability, which affects Simic Initiate, however, only if another creature enters the battlefield (C.R. 702.57a).
EDIT: Edited after comment 4 was posted, and again after comment 5 was posted.
If you choose Metallic Mimic's effect, Simic Initiate enters with one +1/+1 counter, which is added by 1 with Metallic Mimic and doubled by Hardened Scales, for a total of four.
Hardened Scales adds one more counter, it doesn't double them.
If you choose Metallic Mimic's effect, Simic Initiate enters with one +1/+1 counter, which is added by 1 with Metallic Mimic and doubled by Hardened Scales, for a total of four.
Hardened Scales adds one more counter, it doesn't double them.
Hi! What would happen if I've got Hardened Sacales in play and I play Llanowar Reborn.
Would Llanowar Reborn enter the battlefield with one or two +1/+1?
(I think that with just one)
What would happen if afterwards I play a creature and I decide to use Llanowar Reborn's ability with a Hardened Scales in play?
(I believe the creature will get two +1/+1 counters)
Hi! What would happen if I've got Hardened Sacales in play and I play Llanowar Reborn.
Would Llanowar Reborn enter the battlefield with one or two +1/+1?
(I think that with just one)
What would happen if afterwards I play a creature and I decide to use Llanowar Reborn's ability with a Hardened Scales in play?
(I believe the creature will get two +1/+1 counters)
Thank you!
Hardened Scales wouldn't affect Llanowar Reborn as it enters the battlefield, since Llanowar Reborn isn't a creature (review C.R. 702.57a). However, if a creature you control is given one +1/+1 counter due to graft, Hardened Scales would affect that and the creature is given two +1/+1 counters rather than one (C.R. 702.57a, 112.6; under C.R. 121.5, moving a counter onto another object includes putting it onto that object).
Bramblewood Paragon replaces "Wren's Run Vanquisher enters the battlefield" with "Wren's Run Vanquisher enters the battlefield with one +1/+1 counter put on it".
Hardened Scales replaces "Wren's Run Vanquisher enters the battlefield with one +1/+1 counter put on it" with "Wren's Run Vanquisher enters the battlefield with two +1/+1 counters put on it".
121.6. Some spells and abilities refer to counters being put on an object. This refers to putting counters on that object while it’s on the battlefield and also to an object that’s given counters as it enters the battlefield.
and I decide to use Llanowar Reborn's graft ability on the Vanquisher.
Hardened Scales replaces "Remove one +1/+1 counter from Llanowar Reborn and put one on Wren's Run Vanquisher" with "Remove one +1/+1 counter from Llanowar Reborn and put two on Wren's Run Vanquisher"
121.5. If an effect says to “move” a counter, it means to take that counter from the object it’s currently on and put it onto a second object. If the first and second objects are the same object, nothing happens. If the first object has no counters, nothing happens; the second object doesn’t get a counter
put on it. If the second object (or any possible second objects) is no longer in the correct zone when the effect would move the counter, nothing happens; a counter isn’t removed from the first object.
As far as I understand both mimic and hardened scals are replacement effect, so is it correct to assume that in the same scenario as the video, but with 2 hardened scales instead of the 2 mimics, the result would be the same (hangarback played zero mana, enters as a 2/2)? Basically, may I play hangarback (or ballista) for zero mana if hardened scales is on the battlefield?
Metallic Mimic affects how the creature creature enters the battlefield, adding an additional counter to that event. With Hangarback Walker (assuming Construct is named) it effectively adds to the X when it enters, so even if X=0, 0+1=1 making it enter with a counter.
Hardened Scales affects the number of counters, but only "If one or more +1/+1 counters" are being placed. In the case of Hangarback being cast for X=0, when it enters there are no counters being put on it, there's nothing for its effect to replace, so it would still enter with 0 counters.
Also please don't bump threads from years ago, just make a new thread (with a link to the old if needed)
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Incidentally, this question is basically identical to one that was asked recently. Metallic Mimic, Hardened Scales and Hangarback Walker
EDIT: Edited after comment 4 was posted, and again after comment 5 was posted.
Would Llanowar Reborn enter the battlefield with one or two +1/+1?
(I think that with just one)
What would happen if afterwards I play a creature and I decide to use Llanowar Reborn's ability with a Hardened Scales in play?
(I believe the creature will get two +1/+1 counters)
Thank you!
In play: Llanowar Reborn, Hardened Scales and Bramblewood Paragon.
Then I play, for example, a Wren's Run Vanquisher and I decide to use Llanowar Reborn's graft ability on the Vanquisher.
How many counters Will the Vanquisher have? Three or four?
Bramblewood Paragon replaces "Wren's Run Vanquisher enters the battlefield" with "Wren's Run Vanquisher enters the battlefield with one +1/+1 counter put on it".
Hardened Scales replaces "Wren's Run Vanquisher enters the battlefield with one +1/+1 counter put on it" with "Wren's Run Vanquisher enters the battlefield with two +1/+1 counters put on it".
Hardened Scales replaces "Remove one +1/+1 counter from Llanowar Reborn and put one on Wren's Run Vanquisher" with "Remove one +1/+1 counter from Llanowar Reborn and put two on Wren's Run Vanquisher"
Four, now.
I have one more related question:
In these mtg online game, min 10:48, hangarback (played zero mana) enters as a 2/2 with 2 mimics on the battlefield.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hQuXEvfff0&t=458s
As far as I understand both mimic and hardened scals are replacement effect, so is it correct to assume that in the same scenario as the video, but with 2 hardened scales instead of the 2 mimics, the result would be the same (hangarback played zero mana, enters as a 2/2)? Basically, may I play hangarback (or ballista) for zero mana if hardened scales is on the battlefield?
Hardened Scales affects the number of counters, but only "If one or more +1/+1 counters" are being placed. In the case of Hangarback being cast for X=0, when it enters there are no counters being put on it, there's nothing for its effect to replace, so it would still enter with 0 counters.
Also please don't bump threads from years ago, just make a new thread (with a link to the old if needed)