I've searched for this answer across the Internet, and I still have yet to find the absolute, ultimate, definitive ruling. Hopefully one or more of you good folks here will have it for me.
I play in a Commander event every Saturday that doesn't do the "10-card sideboard" thing. One of my decks' commanders is Maralen of the Mornsong, so obviously it's mono-black but has lots of colorless spells therein. I also run Spawnsire of Ulamog in the deck.
Now, if I use the Spawnsire's last ability--"20: Cast any number of Eldrazi cards you own from outside the game without paying their mana costs," What exactly does it mean? Does it mean:
I can cast every Eldrazi card I own, even those whose casting costs contain W, U, R, or G, even multiple copies of each?
I can cast any Eldrazi card I own, even those whose casting costs contain W, U, R, or G, but only one copy of each?
I can cast every Eldrazi card I own whose casting costs contain B or C only, even multiple copies of each?
I can cast any Eldrazi card I own whose casting costs contain B or C only, but only one copy of each?
Thanks in advance for any and all help you can give me.
In the Commander variant under C.R. 903, the answer is you may cast any number of Eldrazi cards you own, provided they're found "outside the game"; the effect is not limited to cards with different names from each other or from cards in your deck, and is not limited to cards whose color identity doesn't include colors outside your commander's color identity. However, you can't cast a card this way in a Commander game if—
the card has the same name as a card in your starting deck (including your commander [C.R. 903.3]) or a card you own in the current game, or
the card's color identity includes colors outside your commander's color identity
(C.R. 903.11).
"Any number" means zero or more (C.R. 107.1c). "Any number" does not mean "all".
To be clear, even though Spawnsire of Ulamog's last ability lets you cast multiple Eldrazi cards from outside the game, this doesn't let you cast, say, multiple cards with the same name this way in a Commander game (C.R. 903.11). This is because if you cast more than one Eldrazi card with Spawnsire of Ulamog, you nevertheless cast them one at a time, since casting a card is a multistep process (C.R. 601.2).
The Commander variant limits only what cards can be included in your deck (C.R. 903.5; under C.R. 903.6 [and C.R. 103.1], each player's deck becomes a library, so no longer counts as a deck; see also the glossary, which defines "deck" as "the collection of cards a player starts the game with"). Nothing in the rules for that variant (as given in C.R. 903)—
changes whether a card you own from outside the game counts as included in your deck,
changes what "outside the game" means (as M.T.R. 3.16 does in a sanctioned tournament, including a sanctioned Commander variant tournament), or
otherwise overrides the Magic: The Gathering Tournament Rules.
EDIT: Expanded on last sentence after comment 4 was posted (I mistakenly wrote "...comment 3 was posted").
EDIT (Jan. 29): Clarified first paragraph after comment 9 was posted.
EDIT (Feb. 13): Deleted a sentence in first paragraph.
EDIT (Apr. 19): Minor clarification.
EDIT (Apr. 29, 2019): Edited a rule citation, probably to conform to rule changes. Minor edit.
EDIT (Jul. 9, 2019): Edited to conform to rule change with Core Set 2020.
EDIT (Apr. 17, 2020): Edited to conform to rule update for Ikoria: Lair of Behemoths.
EDIT (Apr. 19, 2020): Clarification; add rule citation.
EDIT (Apr. 17, 2021): Edited.
EDIT (Jul. 23, 2021): Edited to conform to rule update with Adventures in the Forgotten Realms.
peteroupc's answer only applies if you're playing casually with your friends and they don't particularly care about you doing wacky things like Spawnsire-ing in a dozen copies of Benthic Infiltrator.
If you're playing Commander in any kind of structured/sanctioned setting, unless it is explicitly announced that the event will be making use of sideboards, wish effects like Spawnsire's second ability don't do anything.
If you are playing with sideboards (which is an optional rule for Commander format), "outside of the game" means "from your sideboard", and sideboards must obey deck construction rules.
I've searched for this answer across the Internet, and I still have yet to find the absolute, ultimate, definitive ruling. Hopefully one or more of you good folks here will have it for me.
I play in a Commander event every Saturday that doesn't do the "10-card sideboard" thing. One of my decks' commanders is Maralen of the Mornsong, so obviously it's mono-black but has lots of colorless spells therein. I also run Spawnsire of Ulamog in the deck.
Now, if I use the Spawnsire's last ability--"20: Cast any number of Eldrazi cards you own from outside the game without paying their mana costs," What exactly does it mean? Does it mean:
I can cast every Eldrazi card I own, even those whose casting costs contain W, U, R, or G, even multiple copies of each?
I can cast any Eldrazi card I own, even those whose casting costs contain W, U, R, or G, but only one copy of each?
I can cast every Eldrazi card I own whose casting costs contain B or C only, even multiple copies of each?
I can cast any Eldrazi card I own whose casting costs contain B or C only, but only one copy of each?
Thanks in advance for any and all help you can give me.
As Lithl said, if the event you're playing is DCI-sanctioned (using the DCI reporter software for pairings and such and granting you any planeswalker points), and can thus be called a sanctioned tournament, no matter if it's multiplayer pods, no matter how casual the setting, the Magic Tournament Rules apply, and cards like this work only in sideboards (MTR 3.6, page 19). No sideboard = these effects do nothing.
Outside of sanctioned events, the "absolute, ultimate, definitive ruling" on this actually is "you can do only what your playgroup allows you to do beforehand". peteroupc's answer makes sense as an interpretation made only by looking at the Comprehensive Rules, but he's missing an important element that comes to us from another official Commander source, the mtgcommander.net website. The committee running this site are the true authority of the Commander format, Wizards is collaborating with them and making products for their format and integrated their rules into the Comprehensive Rules, but it's this committee who calls the shots on any format rules modification, the Commander banlist, etc. This is what their official stance is on cards such as Spawnsire of Ulamog :
13. Abilities which refer to other cards owned outside the game (Wishes, Spawnsire, Research, Ring of Ma'ruf) do not function in Commander without prior agreement on their scope from the playgroup.
So IF the "event" you're playing on Saturdays isn't sanctioned, you'll have to ask the people who run it what you are allowed to do. You can try and bring them peteroupc's argument to convince them they should allow you to do what you want, but they will be the final authority. If they don't agree, you don't really have a recourse.
I'm a former judge (lapsed), who keeps up to date on rules and policy. Keep in mind that judges' answers aren't necessarily more valid than those of people who aren't judges; what matters is we can quote the rules to back up our answers. When in doubt, ask for such quotes.
EDIT: Expanded on last sentence after comment 3 was posted.
Hi peteroupc,
Thanks to the expansion to your last sentence, are you saying that MadMageQc is correct, or that he is incorrect?
I apologize if I'm being slow on the uptake.
My comment was #5, and peteroupc's edit was before I posted it. #3 is the one with your thanks to him.
I am not directly contradicting what he said: it is valid from a strict Comprehensive Rules point of view. As I said, if your event isn't sanctioned and thus isn't covered by the Magic Tournament Rules, you can bring his explanation to the organizers to convince them that by the rules, you should be allowed to do what you want, and you'd probably have a convincing argument. It's just that if they refuse to allow it, with the event not being sanctioned, you have no recourse.
I'm a former judge (lapsed), who keeps up to date on rules and policy. Keep in mind that judges' answers aren't necessarily more valid than those of people who aren't judges; what matters is we can quote the rules to back up our answers. When in doubt, ask for such quotes.
If a sanctioned/kitchen table allows side-board in wherever your playing edh
The 20 ability will work
If the answer is no that ability does nothing. Only put spawnsire in if the place allows sideboard.
Oh not sure where I saw it but possibly the side-board can only have one of's as well and can't be anything in the deck.
The optional 10-card sideboard rule was on mtgcommander.net for a long time, but it's now retired (of course, a given non-sanctioned playgroup can still use that as a house rule, as they can house rule literally anything). Play Rule #13 I quoted above used to be that these cards would only work with that 10-card sideboard rule, but with it removed, they changed it to a more broad "if you want to use those cards, you'll have to house rule them".
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I'm a former judge (lapsed), who keeps up to date on rules and policy. Keep in mind that judges' answers aren't necessarily more valid than those of people who aren't judges; what matters is we can quote the rules to back up our answers. When in doubt, ask for such quotes.
My comment was #5, and peteroupc's edit was before I posted it. #3 is the one with your thanks to him.
Oh, okay. Sorry for the mistake.
I am not directly contradicting what he said: it is valid from a strict Comprehensive Rules point of view. As I said, if your event isn't sanctioned and thus isn't covered by the Magic Tournament Rules, you can bring his explanation to the organizers to convince them that by the rules, you should be allowed to do what you want, and you'd probably have a convincing argument. It's just that if they refuse to allow it, with the event not being sanctioned, you have no recourse.
That makes a lot of sense. I appreciate you posting that for me.
peteroupc and MadMageQc, a huge THANK YOU to the two of you!! I'll print out peteroupc's post, bring every Eldrazi card I own and leave it in my car, then the next time I get to use the ability I'll hope for the best but be cool with whatever the store owners determine should they disagree.
My comment was #5, and peteroupc's edit was before I posted it. #3 is the one with your thanks to him.
Oh, okay. Sorry for the mistake.
I am not directly contradicting what he said: it is valid from a strict Comprehensive Rules point of view. As I said, if your event isn't sanctioned and thus isn't covered by the Magic Tournament Rules, you can bring his explanation to the organizers to convince them that by the rules, you should be allowed to do what you want, and you'd probably have a convincing argument. It's just that if they refuse to allow it, with the event not being sanctioned, you have no recourse.
That makes a lot of sense. I appreciate you posting that for me.
peteroupc and MadMageQc, a huge THANK YOU to the two of you!! I'll print out peteroupc's post, bring every Eldrazi card I own and leave it in my car, then the next time I get to use the ability I'll hope for the best but be cool with whatever the store owners determine should they disagree.
CHEERS!!
So will I I also have a Eldrazi deck might get spawnsire because of this.
If a sanctioned/kitchen table allows side-board in wherever your playing edh
The 20 ability will work
If the answer is no that ability does nothing. Only put spawnsire in if the place allows sideboard.
Oh not sure where I saw it but possibly the side-board can only have one of's as well and can't be anything in the deck.
The optional 10-card sideboard rule was on mtgcommander.net for a long time, but it's now retired (of course, a given non-sanctioned playgroup can still use that as a house rule, as they can house rule literally anything). Play Rule #13 I quoted above used to be that these cards would only work with that 10-card sideboard rule, but with it removed, they changed it to a more broad "if you want to use those cards, you'll have to house rule them".
Oh really? That rule is acient history thanks
And I might need to get spawnsire because of this (just in case I hit a edh place that allows side-board)
With Ikoria: Lair of Behemoths, the rules for the Commander variant changed in a manner that affects this question.
In the Commander variant, you can't bring a card you own into the game from outside it (whether with Spawnsire of Ulamog or otherwise) if—
the card has the same name as a card in your starting deck (including your commander [C.R. 903.3]) or a card you own in the current game, or
the card's color identity includes colors outside your commander's color identity
(C.R. 903.11).
I have edited comment 2 of this thread accordingly. It's still the case, however, that nothing in the rules for the Commander variant (under C.R. 903) changes what "outside the game" means (see what is now C.R. 400.11).
In unsanctioned casual games in general, the players in the game can agree on modifications to the comprehensive rules (that is, "house rules") that address various game details, examples of which are—
each player's starting life total,
whether players can have sideboards and the maximum size of those sideboards,
the meaning of "outside the game", and
the number of poison counters needed for a player to lose the game as a state-based action.
For example, although a card "outside the game", under the comprehensive rules, means a card that's not in any of the game's zones, including a card in a sideboard (C.R. 400.11, 400.11a), and nothing in the rules for the Commander variant (under C.R. 903) changes this, the players in an unsanctioned casual game can agree to limit the term "outside the game" to meaning only cards in sideboards, as the Magic: The Gathering Tournament Rules does for sanctioned tournaments (M.T.R. 3.16).
EDIT (Apr. 19, 2020): Clarification.
EDIT (Jul. 23, 2021): Edited to conform to rule update with Adventures in the Forgotten Realms.
I've searched for this answer across the Internet, and I still have yet to find the absolute, ultimate, definitive ruling. Hopefully one or more of you good folks here will have it for me.
I play in a Commander event every Saturday that doesn't do the "10-card sideboard" thing. One of my decks' commanders is Maralen of the Mornsong, so obviously it's mono-black but has lots of colorless spells therein. I also run Spawnsire of Ulamog in the deck.
Now, if I use the Spawnsire's last ability--"20: Cast any number of Eldrazi cards you own from outside the game without paying their mana costs," What exactly does it mean? Does it mean:
The Great Creature Token Project
; the effect is not limited to cards with different names from each other or from cards in your deck, and is not limited to cards whose color identity doesn't include colors outside your commander's color identity. However, you can't cast a card this way in a Commander game if—"Any number" means zero or more (C.R. 107.1c). "Any number" does not mean "all".
To be clear, even though Spawnsire of Ulamog's last ability lets you cast multiple Eldrazi cards from outside the game, this doesn't let you cast, say, multiple cards with the same name this way in a Commander game (C.R. 903.11). This is because if you cast more than one Eldrazi card with Spawnsire of Ulamog, you nevertheless cast them one at a time, since casting a card is a multistep process (C.R. 601.2).
The Commander variant limits
onlywhat cards can be included in your deck (C.R. 903.5; under C.R. 903.6 [and C.R. 103.1], each player's deck becomes a library, so no longer counts as a deck; see also the glossary, which defines "deck" as "the collection of cards a player starts the game with"). Nothing in the rules for that variant (as given in C.R. 903)—EDIT: Expanded on last sentence after comment 4 was posted (I mistakenly wrote "...comment 3 was posted").
EDIT (Jan. 29): Clarified first paragraph after comment 9 was posted.
EDIT (Feb. 13): Deleted a sentence in first paragraph.
EDIT (Apr. 19): Minor clarification.
EDIT (Apr. 29, 2019): Edited a rule citation, probably to conform to rule changes. Minor edit.
EDIT (Jul. 9, 2019): Edited to conform to rule change with Core Set 2020.
EDIT (Apr. 17, 2020): Edited to conform to rule update for Ikoria: Lair of Behemoths.
EDIT (Apr. 19, 2020): Clarification; add rule citation.
EDIT (Apr. 17, 2021): Edited.
EDIT (Jul. 23, 2021): Edited to conform to rule update with Adventures in the Forgotten Realms.
The Great Creature Token Project
If you're playing Commander in any kind of structured/sanctioned setting, unless it is explicitly announced that the event will be making use of sideboards, wish effects like Spawnsire's second ability don't do anything.
If you are playing with sideboards (which is an optional rule for Commander format), "outside of the game" means "from your sideboard", and sideboards must obey deck construction rules.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
Outside of sanctioned events, the "absolute, ultimate, definitive ruling" on this actually is "you can do only what your playgroup allows you to do beforehand". peteroupc's answer makes sense as an interpretation made only by looking at the Comprehensive Rules, but he's missing an important element that comes to us from another official Commander source, the mtgcommander.net website. The committee running this site are the true authority of the Commander format, Wizards is collaborating with them and making products for their format and integrated their rules into the Comprehensive Rules, but it's this committee who calls the shots on any format rules modification, the Commander banlist, etc. This is what their official stance is on cards such as Spawnsire of Ulamog : So IF the "event" you're playing on Saturdays isn't sanctioned, you'll have to ask the people who run it what you are allowed to do. You can try and bring them peteroupc's argument to convince them they should allow you to do what you want, but they will be the final authority. If they don't agree, you don't really have a recourse.
Thanks to the expansion to your last sentence, are you saying that MadMageQc is correct, or that he is incorrect?
I apologize if I'm being slow on the uptake.
The Great Creature Token Project
I am not directly contradicting what he said: it is valid from a strict Comprehensive Rules point of view. As I said, if your event isn't sanctioned and thus isn't covered by the Magic Tournament Rules, you can bring his explanation to the organizers to convince them that by the rules, you should be allowed to do what you want, and you'd probably have a convincing argument. It's just that if they refuse to allow it, with the event not being sanctioned, you have no recourse.
I make it simple
If a sanctioned/kitchen table allows side-board in wherever your playing edh
The 20 ability will work
If the answer is no that ability does nothing. Only put spawnsire in if the place allows sideboard.
Oh not sure where I saw it but possibly the side-board can only have one of's as well and can't be anything in the deck.
Oh, okay. Sorry for the mistake.
That makes a lot of sense. I appreciate you posting that for me.
peteroupc and MadMageQc, a huge THANK YOU to the two of you!! I'll print out peteroupc's post, bring every Eldrazi card I own and leave it in my car, then the next time I get to use the ability I'll hope for the best but be cool with whatever the store owners determine should they disagree.
CHEERS!!
The Great Creature Token Project
So will I I also have a Eldrazi deck might get spawnsire because of this.
Oh really? That rule is acient history thanks
And I might need to get spawnsire because of this (just in case I hit a edh place that allows side-board)
In the Commander variant, you can't bring a card you own into the game from outside it (whether with Spawnsire of Ulamog or otherwise) if—
I have edited comment 2 of this thread accordingly. It's still the case, however, that nothing in the rules for the Commander variant (under C.R. 903) changes what "outside the game" means (see what is now C.R. 400.11).
In unsanctioned casual games in general, the players in the game can agree on modifications to the comprehensive rules (that is, "house rules") that address various game details, examples of which are—
For example, although a card "outside the game", under the comprehensive rules, means a card that's not in any of the game's zones, including a card in a sideboard (C.R. 400.11, 400.11a), and nothing in the rules for the Commander variant (under C.R. 903) changes this, the players in an unsanctioned casual game can agree to limit the term "outside the game" to meaning only cards in sideboards, as the Magic: The Gathering Tournament Rules does for sanctioned tournaments (M.T.R. 3.16).
EDIT (Apr. 19, 2020): Clarification.
EDIT (Jul. 23, 2021): Edited to conform to rule update with Adventures in the Forgotten Realms.