Hello all, i used to play magic very often, but planeswalkers are still somewhat unfamiliar to me. I think i know the answer to my own question, but would like confirmation.
Player 1 plays jace, the mind sculptor.
Player 2 plays lightning bolt on the planeswalker.
Player 1 can use the +2 ability EVEN IF PLAYER 2 SAYS "I BOLT" BEFORE PLAYER 1 SAYS "I USE THE PLUS 2"
Jace, or any other planeswalker, can use their abilies and gain or loose loalty counters before other players can use instants. Furthermore, planeswalkers can use thier abilities in response to instants. I.E:
"I bolt your jace"
"I use his +2 so hes at 2 instead of 0."
Is all of that correct? If not please explain why
Thanks
-josh
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My decks. Feel free to make suggestions. The Precious B___U___G___R___W
Magic works with priority. A player can only cast a spell or activate an ability when they have priority.
If I play a Jace and it resolves, I will have priority again. If I activate one of Jaces abilities, the cost is adding or removing loyalty counters. Players cannot respond to costs. So by the time the Lightning Bolt can be cast, Jace will have more than enough loyalty counters to survive the 3 damage.
However, you cannot use an ability when you dont have permission to. In order to activate the ability of a planeswalker, the stack needs to be empty and you need to have priority. So if for some reason I forget to use Jace right away, and do something else instead, I cannot then use the +2 ability on Jace after the Lightning Bolt has been cast
W may only be paid with white mana. U may only be paid with blue mana. B may only be paid with black mana. R may only be paid with red mana. G may only be paid with green mana. C may only be paid with colorless mana. 1 may be paid with white, blue, black, red, green, or clolorless mana.
However, you cannot use an ability when you dont have permission to. In order to activate the ability of a planeswalker, the stack needs to be empty and you need to have priority.
While this is correct, it is also incomplete. A planeswalker has loyalty abilities (activated abilities that add/remove loyalty counters as a cost to activate them), and per the rules, loyalty abilities can only be used with sorcery timing. So not only do you need to have priority and the stack must be empty, but it must also be your turn's main phase.
If, after your planeswalker spell resolved, the opponent rushes ahead and tries to Bolt it right away, that is an illegal play because he doesn't have priority (after any object on the stack resolves, the active player gains priority). It's not even a shortcut proposal because to propose a shortcut, the player must have priority. If that illegal action is caught right away, the game is rewound, and in a tournament setting, the player gets a Game Play Error - Game Rule Violation penalty (usually a Warning). If the error is caught later, the judge may deem a rewind too disruptive and leave the game as it is. In addition to the opponent getting his penalty, you will also receive a penalty for Game Play Error - Failure to Maintain Game State (a Warning).
thank you for your replies.
im still not quite sure i get the timing.
it's player 1's main phase, so player 2 can use instants, correct? so if player 1 plays a creature, player 2 can bolt it, right?
then after the creature gets bolted, player 1 then plays a planeswalker.
player 2's ability to play instants is suspended until.......... when?
-player 1 uses a loyalty ability?
-player 1 does something else? (play a land, cast a spell, etc)
-player 1 ends their turn?
are all instants unable to be played during this time period, or only ones that target the newly played planeswalker?
thank you for your help
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My decks. Feel free to make suggestions. The Precious B___U___G___R___W
thank you for your replies.
im still not quite sure i get the timing.
it's player 1's main phase, so player 2 can use instants, correct?
Once player 1 passes priority to player 2, same as the rest of player 1's turn.
116. Timing and Priority
116.1. Unless a spell or ability is instructing a player to take an action, which player can take actions at
any given time is determined by a system of priority. The player with priority may cast spells,
activate abilities, and take special actions.
116.1a A player may cast an instant spell any time he or she has priority. A player may cast a
noninstant spell during his or her main phase any time he or she has priority and the stack is
empty.
116.1b A player may activate an activated ability any time he or she has priority.
116.1c A player may take some special actions any time he or she has priority. A player may take
other special actions during his or her main phase any time he or she has priority and the stack is
empty. See rule 115, “Special Actions.”
116.1d A player may activate a mana ability whenever he or she has priority, whenever he or she is
casting a spell or activating an ability that requires a mana payment, or whenever a rule or effect
asks for a mana payment (even in the middle of casting or resolving a spell or activating or
resolving an ability).
so if player 1 plays a creature, player 2 can bolt it, right?
Not until it has resolved and player 1 passes priority.
116.3b The active player receives priority after a spell or ability (other than a mana ability) resolves.
116.3c If a player has priority when he or she casts a spell, activates an ability, or takes a special
action, that player receives priority afterward.
116.3d If a player has priority and chooses not to take any actions, that player passes. If any mana is
in that player’s mana pool, he or she announces what mana is there. Then the next player in turn
order receives priority.
Magic is built with the underlying rule of "Priority" which allows for players to do things. You can't cast an instant, cast a creature, pay a morph cost, or play a land (as well as everything else) without first having priority. This goes above and beyond the idea of "timing" in regards to Instant and Sorcery timing. Think of it as a series of traffic lights in which everyone's is red except the player who has priority.
For example, using your planeswalker scenario:
You cast a Planeswalker by putting it onto the stack. You then pass priority.
An opponent can now respond by casting a counterspell (or whatever). If they don't do anything, priority is passed again and the planeswalker resolves.
Now you, as the Active Player, have priority. It doesn't matter if you want to cast a sorcery or activate that planeswalker's ability at Sorcery "speed" and your opponent wants to do something at Instant "speed". You have priority to do whatever you want so your opponent has to wait (their light is red).
You take this opportunity to activate an ability. You then pass priority.
Now, your opponent can cast their instant if they want.
And so on through the rest of the steps mentioned above.
For your quesion about a creature, it is similar:
You cast a creature and pass priority.
Your opponent passes priority.
It resolves so now you can do something and your opponent can't (since they don't have priority).
Eventually, you will have to pass priority to them so they can do something, but they need to wait until you pass priority to do so.
Just remember, that nothing you do (that uses the stack) will ever resolve without passing priority and the game never moves on to the next step or phase until all players pass priority in succession without taking an action of some kind. So, you could never get to a point where you just withhold passing priority to your opponent.
Player 1 plays jace, the mind sculptor.
Player 2 plays lightning bolt on the planeswalker.
Player 1 can use the +2 ability EVEN IF PLAYER 2 SAYS "I BOLT" BEFORE PLAYER 1 SAYS "I USE THE PLUS 2"
Jace, or any other planeswalker, can use their abilies and gain or loose loalty counters before other players can use instants. Furthermore, planeswalkers can use thier abilities in response to instants. I.E:
"I bolt your jace"
"I use his +2 so hes at 2 instead of 0."
Is all of that correct? If not please explain why
Thanks
-josh
The Precious
B___U___G___R___W
Magic works with priority. A player can only cast a spell or activate an ability when they have priority.
If I play a Jace and it resolves, I will have priority again. If I activate one of Jaces abilities, the cost is adding or removing loyalty counters. Players cannot respond to costs. So by the time the Lightning Bolt can be cast, Jace will have more than enough loyalty counters to survive the 3 damage.
However, you cannot use an ability when you dont have permission to. In order to activate the ability of a planeswalker, the stack needs to be empty and you need to have priority. So if for some reason I forget to use Jace right away, and do something else instead, I cannot then use the +2 ability on Jace after the Lightning Bolt has been cast
While this is correct, it is also incomplete. A planeswalker has loyalty abilities (activated abilities that add/remove loyalty counters as a cost to activate them), and per the rules, loyalty abilities can only be used with sorcery timing. So not only do you need to have priority and the stack must be empty, but it must also be your turn's main phase.
If, after your planeswalker spell resolved, the opponent rushes ahead and tries to Bolt it right away, that is an illegal play because he doesn't have priority (after any object on the stack resolves, the active player gains priority). It's not even a shortcut proposal because to propose a shortcut, the player must have priority. If that illegal action is caught right away, the game is rewound, and in a tournament setting, the player gets a Game Play Error - Game Rule Violation penalty (usually a Warning). If the error is caught later, the judge may deem a rewind too disruptive and leave the game as it is. In addition to the opponent getting his penalty, you will also receive a penalty for Game Play Error - Failure to Maintain Game State (a Warning).
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
im still not quite sure i get the timing.
it's player 1's main phase, so player 2 can use instants, correct? so if player 1 plays a creature, player 2 can bolt it, right?
then after the creature gets bolted, player 1 then plays a planeswalker.
player 2's ability to play instants is suspended until.......... when?
-player 1 uses a loyalty ability?
-player 1 does something else? (play a land, cast a spell, etc)
-player 1 ends their turn?
are all instants unable to be played during this time period, or only ones that target the newly played planeswalker?
thank you for your help
The Precious
B___U___G___R___W
Once player 1 passes priority to player 2, same as the rest of player 1's turn.
Not until it has resolved and player 1 passes priority.
Until player 1 passes priority.
For example, using your planeswalker scenario:
An opponent can now respond by casting a counterspell (or whatever). If they don't do anything, priority is passed again and the planeswalker resolves.
Now you, as the Active Player, have priority. It doesn't matter if you want to cast a sorcery or activate that planeswalker's ability at Sorcery "speed" and your opponent wants to do something at Instant "speed". You have priority to do whatever you want so your opponent has to wait (their light is red).
You take this opportunity to activate an ability. You then pass priority.
Now, your opponent can cast their instant if they want.
And so on through the rest of the steps mentioned above.
For your quesion about a creature, it is similar:
Your opponent passes priority.
It resolves so now you can do something and your opponent can't (since they don't have priority).
Eventually, you will have to pass priority to them so they can do something, but they need to wait until you pass priority to do so.
Just remember, that nothing you do (that uses the stack) will ever resolve without passing priority and the game never moves on to the next step or phase until all players pass priority in succession without taking an action of some kind. So, you could never get to a point where you just withhold passing priority to your opponent.
i think ive got it.
The Precious
B___U___G___R___W