TLDR: People are cold now. Prices are 'lolwut' levels of expensive.
I played long ago. Almost 20 years now. Before the internet took off. Back then? The neighborhood card shop was a place that was super welcoming of new players. Card prices were reasonable for Standard. FNM was a good time, every week, as everyone came about with something new and different. Drafts were common. Life was grand.
I dipped my toe back in maybe 5 years ago now. Things sure changed in a big big way. People were cold and distant. There was no welcoming atmosphere and certainly no sense of camaraderie. Prices for Standard were comedic to say the least. Forget anything vintage. FNM equated to "What are the pros playing?" as each and every deck was a copy/paste of those same decks. Thanks internet. Drafts are there, but it's akin to playing with Aspergeristic shut-ins that have zero sort of friendly anything, let alone behavior.
I hung on for a good 8 months, going to various shops in my city, and each was the same. Cold, distant, robotic. I sold what collection I had a couple years back now, to the tune of about $4.9k, paid off a bunch of debt, and gave up. At the time, I sold 4 Serendib Efreets to someone in Paris for right around $2500. Back in the day? 'Dibs were maybe $60/ea? I see they go for $900 on SSG today (lolwut?).
M20 is on the horizon. I got whimsical looking at what's out. Kind of reminded me of how things were before WOTC got bought out. Before the internet came along. Before people got 'more connected' via phones, and less connected face to face.
I thought of getting back in. Then realized that things would be the same as 5 years back. Prices would decimate my wallet. I've expenses now as an adult. Car payments, bills, family stuff. I can't dump X hundred into a halfway decent standard deck. Let alone Vintage prices for some of my old favorite cards (Vesuvan Dopplegangers are HOW MUCH?!). I'd be playing 'the pro' decks at every turn, and since I'm more into exploring the cards synergy on my own, instead of what X PTQ Pro that gets the expansion sets early does, that's not for me. And the people. I might as well play MTGOnline. Same personalities.
I miss the game. Can't get back into it for the above reasons. Just not the same. How do others do it?
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Find a good LGS? I sold out of Modern because of the "robotic" try-hards who treated a $15 top 8 split like it were Grand Prix. I despise Limited & Commander. Having said all that, our Standard group is fantastic. Everyone is warm and helpful. We make an active attempt to make newer, younger players better. Theyre sociable before, during, & after matches. A group of ~ 15 of us even go out to the bar after FNM for drinks every week.
In regard to cost (at least for Standard), its not as bad as it was imo (no more $100 Jace). Even some eternal format cards are getting cheaper because of sets like Modern Masters. For myself, im happy to play whatever the best decks in the format are. Ive never been much of a brewer but if you identify as one then there are risks that come along with that.....like overspending for something that doesnt/wont work. For myself, I fund the hobby by cashing in events (I play Fri, Sat, Sun atm). For $350-$950 (and ive found spending the extra $600 isnt worth it to get the mythics) I can preorder a playset of an upcoming set and its largely if not fully paid for by store credit acquired from playing 3 days a week. So while there has to be an initial investment, long term the game is paying for itself. Getting yourself a "bankroll" would go a long way in allowing you to brew more often because you'd have tiered decks to fall back on without spending more if things dont work out while already having the card pool to brew at your leisure
going to various shops in my city, and each was the same. Cold, distant, robotic.
There's 3 decent sized lgs in my city. I even went to the 4th that equates to a single particle board table, amongst a hoarders level of card boxes in a small store space. Each and every single one panned out the same. The Socially Inept, tossing decks around that are blatant copies of the latest PTQ top decks, with a bare minimum of anything remotely close to personable or friendly behavior. To the point of thinking 'What's actually wrong with these people?'.
People are different these days. Phones at the ready at all times, no interest in anything beyond what's in their own heads. It's uncanny and very odd.
That's really sad. I hope you can find some place that you enjoy, as "the gathering" is the biggest part in Magic to me.
In my area, there are many players that are very receptive. Obviously players can get salty at times, but most local players have a personality at least. For me if I didn't have that, I'd quit on the spot. There's literally no reason for me to play without at least that. I don't mind playing a few of those types at Grand Prix every once in a while if it means that I get to play competitive players, which is something else that I value very much.
I would not give up so soon if I were you. When my brother's best friend and I got back into the game during Mirrodin/Kamigawa, the players at the store that we went to were very COLD to us. After a few tournaments of us winning 1st and 2nd every time and everyone started to love us. Winning in Magic comes with notoriety, even if on a very tiny scale, lol. If I win even a local 1K, I notice friend requests on FB and people that I haven't talked to in a while hit me up. It's mostly in good nature and I know good friends from acquaintances, but I just wouldn't give up so soon if I were you. Obviously I realize it's tougher if someone is in it just for the social aspect - for me, I enjoy that AND Competition. Actually there are many aspects of Magic that I LOOOOVE.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
to the OP. sorry to hear that. I hope you find a friendly mtg group someday.
my playgroup are all spikes, so we play to win and there is a "strictly no takeback" rule. For example, there was one time one of us played chalice of the void for the first time, he did not understant xx costs and paid 3 mana thinking chalice would block 3 cmc spells, after xx costs have been explained - he did not take back the play and instead put the chalice into play with one counter on it, later destroyed the chalice with his own ratchet bomb. But the atmosphere is friendly, and we give mtg cards on each other's b-day.
No need to take things personally, and I'd like to address everyone with that. Most causes of toxic people are the environment of players and social expectations, and those have a tendency to change a lot over the years. Don't hate the player guys.
I can resonate with both of OP's points, though I don't completely agree with them.
MTG has become a very complicated game with tons of rules and very intense moments. Even good friends of mine that are fun to hang around and play with can become very irritable and taxing if they become stressed when playing. Sometimes that can improve over time, sometimes it's just the people and how they deal with challenges, and I've come to accept that.
The monetary issue is one which has a TON of players frustrated, in every single format in MTG. However, there are ways to deal with these monetary issues. Commander sometimes has environments where there's a cap on the sum of money you can spend on your deck. Modern can be a matter of local metagame, sometimes there are a bunch of tier 2 and 3 decks floating around just for the fun of it.
My main suggestion would be to try and change environments. I used to be part of local group A who had pretty serious prices on drafts and very unfun organizers to play with. I've since joined a group of friends that cube together just for fun and it's a blast each time. There was another group I visited and played with, which played Pauper, the cheapest format and one with a very cool player base. I really enjoyed being a part of it but the organizers moved away.
In short the snapshot you saw so far isn't reflective of the general experience of MTG. Try asking around and hopefully you'll something that's more to your liking. Good luck!
LOL, meanwhile the Serendib Efreet misprint can be had for about $6 or less. Yeah, I totally feel what you’re feeling. I quit Magic when I moved to a new city because the new players were awful, greedy and self centered. My old stomping grounds were super friendly (unless you cheated) and cool to hang out with.
I tried again several times over the years but it was always the same. Epic jerks and/or LGS owners who didn’t give a flip.
It wasn’t until Shadows over Innistrad was released that I got back in because my son found my old collection. We tried to play at a local LGS chain but we easily got pushed out by classic Jeff Albertson or modern Sheldon Cooper types. It would be another two or three sets before I found one of the LGSes was placed under new ownership and the place is absolutely awesome now. Everyone is super friendly, it’s relaxed, and cheaters are dealt with old school.
I know it’s disheartening but keep at it. Try and find a like-minded individual to play kite hen table with. Before I found my LGS, I hooked up with a co-worker and played during lunches at work. It was enough to keep my interest.
As for prices. Yeah, that was mind blowing when I first saw the new prices. Cards that once sold for $60 are now $600+ and others have fallen dramatically to the point of worthlessness. Prices are so far out of reach and so skewed that I really don’t want to carry around any of my Legacy decks. I get called a “scrub” for not putting more than $500 into any of my Commander decks. My vehicle probably won’t fetch more than $5k, why am I carrying around a deck worth twice that? Yeah, no thanks.
So yeah, I get it. It can be rough sometimes. I have a spouse and kids too and only my youngest two really understand what Magic means to me. There are bills to pay ($450 for a week of camp?!?), mortgage, car loans, etc. It can be nuts and stressful sometimes.
If you really want to play, just hang in there. You’ll find the right time. Otherwise, don’t worry about Magic. Just move on and find something else to your liking. First rule is to take care of yourself, you don’t need to take care of Hasbro investors.
LOL, meanwhile the Serendib Efreet misprint can be had for about $6 or less. Yeah, I totally feel what you’re feeling. I quit Magic when I moved to a new city because the new players were awful, greedy and self centered. My old stomping grounds were super friendly (unless you cheated) and cool to hang out with.
I tried again several times over the years but it was always the same. Epic jerks and/or LGS owners who didn’t give a flip.
It wasn’t until Shadows over Innistrad was released that I got back in because my son found my old collection. We tried to play at a local LGS chain but we easily got pushed out by classic Jeff Albertson or modern Sheldon Cooper types. It would be another two or three sets before I found one of the LGSes was placed under new ownership and the place is absolutely awesome now. Everyone is super friendly, it’s relaxed, and cheaters are dealt with old school.
I know it’s disheartening but keep at it. Try and find a like-minded individual to play kite hen table with. Before I found my LGS, I hooked up with a co-worker and played during lunches at work. It was enough to keep my interest.
As for prices. Yeah, that was mind blowing when I first saw the new prices. Cards that once sold for $60 are now $600+ and others have fallen dramatically to the point of worthlessness. Prices are so far out of reach and so skewed that I really don’t want to carry around any of my Legacy decks. I get called a “scrub” for not putting more than $500 into any of my Commander decks. My vehicle probably won’t fetch more than $5k, why am I carrying around a deck worth twice that? Yeah, no thanks.
So yeah, I get it. It can be rough sometimes. I have a spouse and kids too and only my youngest two really understand what Magic means to me. There are bills to pay ($450 for a week of camp?!?), mortgage, car loans, etc. It can be nuts and stressful sometimes.
If you really want to play, just hang in there. You’ll find the right time. Otherwise, don’t worry about Magic. Just move on and find something else to your liking. First rule is to take care of yourself, you don’t need to take care of Hasbro investors.
I'm of the same mindset now. I was going to buy myself a m/nm favourite card of mine for my 40th birthday recently. Saw the price, and laughed. That's half a new top of the line gaming pc.
I think one of the above posts were right. Just nostalgia.
Have you considering trying to find some folks who play with proxies? Many of the people I've played EDH with over the years are 100% okay with proxies.
You can also have a blast playing EDH with a $50 deck. TappedOut values one of my favorite lists, cycling tribal, at $70-80. Most of my more casual decks come in at $125-300.
Have you considering trying to find some folks who play with proxies? Many of the people I've played EDH with over the years are 100% okay with proxies.
You can also have a blast playing EDH with a $50 deck. TappedOut values one of my favorite lists, cycling tribal, at $70-80. Most of my more casual decks come in at $125-300.
To be honest, I haven't. I'm a vintage or standard nut. I'd get back into it, but I really don't think I can afford even standard. What with the expenses of life? It's either half of a standard deck (half), or my spawnling in a week of summer camp.
What do you mean by afford standard? Are you playing aggro/control/midrange? if you get an aggro deck it will be way cheaper or stick to mono-colored. A midrange or control will cost you serious cash if you aren't careful. 3-color decks will cost way more just because of the manabase. Also do want a Tier 1 build or Tier 2? Those should help figure out where the costs should be.
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The mtg player ecosystem is a complex system. I can't do much more than suggest plausible contributing factors to what you're experiencing.
-The collapse of the middle class. Mtg is not a game for poor people, and many of the rich will have better things to do. As the middle class has declined, more players are under financial stress, and this stress contributes to their antisocial behavior. I should also say that the decline of the middle class goes beyond money: not having good careers also means a lack of purpose, self respect, and fulfillment.
-Increased social isolation / atomization. The number of people who have zero friends or very few friends has increased significantly. This phenomenon is probably amplified in the mtg demographic. It is not a wholly negative thing, because it will mean some people are actively looking to make friends in the mtg scene. However, when you interpret the stat as "the number of people who have very few friends and have not made the effort to change that has increased", you understand that many such people are not actively looking to make new friends despite their isolation.
-The particular evolution and stasis of the mtg ecosystem. This is less about what's been happening in society and more about how like-minded people attract and repel others. People tend to continue to engage in the activities they enjoy, and they stop doing what they don't enjoy. Let's say mtg started as a mix of friendly, easy going people plus cutthroat/jaded/antisocial people. Then let's say, through randomness, or through some mechanic maybe inherit to the nature of the game, the percentage of the latter group increased. The friendly types will enjoy themselves a bit less as the group becomes colder. This leads some of them to quit, which leads the group to become even colder, and the feedback loop continues until we are in the state you see today, where the people who are looking for the social environment you describe are staying away, yourself included.
-The increase in autism. Autism has been rising in the last 20 years. It's not something that can explain all the behavior you see, but like I said, this is a complex issue, and there may be nonlinear effects to a social group from a linear increase in number of autistic people.
-How much of it is you? You mention you are about 40 years old. Most people are interested in making friends that are close in age. Maybe the young people are nicer to each other and less nice to you. I don't expect this to be the case, but it's a possibility.
What do you mean by afford standard? Are you playing aggro/control/midrange? if you get an aggro deck it will be way cheaper or stick to mono-colored. A midrange or control will cost you serious cash if you aren't careful. 3-color decks will cost way more just because of the manabase. Also do want a Tier 1 build or Tier 2? Those should help figure out where the costs should be.
I'm oblivious to current standard prices, but a few years back? A competitive, non 'copy the latest PTQ winners deck' could easily run someone a few hundred dollars. Today may be different. Again, I've no basis for your answer beyond prices 'back in the day'. Though, if anything in Standard is at all historical, it's still right difficult for a monocolor/aggro deck to take out a properly made tri-color. In essence, GL winning.
The mtg player ecosystem is a complex system. I can't do much more than suggest plausible contributing factors to what you're experiencing.
-The collapse of the middle class. Mtg is not a game for poor people, and many of the rich will have better things to do. As the middle class has declined, more players are under financial stress, and this stress contributes to their antisocial behavior. I should also say that the decline of the middle class goes beyond money: not having good careers also means a lack of purpose, self respect, and fulfillment.
-Increased social isolation / atomization. The number of people who have zero friends or very few friends has increased significantly. This phenomenon is probably amplified in the mtg demographic. It is not a wholly negative thing, because it will mean some people are actively looking to make friends in the mtg scene. However, when you interpret the stat as "the number of people who have very few friends and have not made the effort to change that has increased", you understand that many such people are not actively looking to make new friends despite their isolation.
-The particular evolution and stasis of the mtg ecosystem. This is less about what's been happening in society and more about how like-minded people attract and repel others. People tend to continue to engage in the activities they enjoy, and they stop doing what they don't enjoy. Let's say mtg started as a mix of friendly, easy going people plus cutthroat/jaded/antisocial people. Then let's say, through randomness, or through some mechanic maybe inherit to the nature of the game, the percentage of the latter group increased. The friendly types will enjoy themselves a bit less as the group becomes colder. This leads some of them to quit, which leads the group to become even colder, and the feedback loop continues until we are in the state you see today, where the people who are looking for the social environment you describe are staying away, yourself included.
-The increase in autism. Autism has been rising in the last 20 years. It's not something that can explain all the behavior you see, but like I said, this is a complex issue, and there may be nonlinear effects to a social group from a linear increase in number of autistic people.
-How much of it is you? You mention you are about 40 years old. Most people are interested in making friends that are close in age. Maybe the young people are nicer to each other and less nice to you. I don't expect this to be the case, but it's a possibility.
I'm unsure how to respond to most of that. No offense.
What do you mean by afford standard? Are you playing aggro/control/midrange? if you get an aggro deck it will be way cheaper or stick to mono-colored. A midrange or control will cost you serious cash if you aren't careful. 3-color decks will cost way more just because of the manabase. Also do want a Tier 1 build or Tier 2? Those should help figure out where the costs should be.
I'm oblivious to current standard prices, but a few years back? A competitive, non 'copy the latest PTQ winners deck' could easily run someone a few hundred dollars. Today may be different. Again, I've no basis for your answer beyond prices 'back in the day'. Though, if anything in Standard is at all historical, it's still right difficult for a monocolor/aggro deck to take out a properly made tri-color. In essence, GL winning.
You should take a look at Decklists from SCG tour/ 5-0 competitive lists on MTGO / Mythic Championship qualifier/championship lists. You might notice one deck that shows up a lot and that is mono-red aggro and that deck is not that expensive, I think it is around 100$
Prices you can check at Mtggoldfish/Tcgplayer.com/cardkingdom.com
and some mono-colored decks have worked their way to the top of the food chain, Mono-Blue Tempo was one such deck and White Weanie had gotten there as well.
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If you want to jump back into standard, this is probably one of the worst times: 3 months from now almost half of the standard legal cards are going to rotate out, so if you build a deck from those, you are not going to use it for long and if one of your issues is not having that much of a disposable income (very relatable, as I'm in the same boat) spending it on cards that you will use 3 months tops and won't be able to sell away, is not a good investment.
As some already suggested, commander might be a way to play magic without havint the monetary pressure of rotations and generally if the best choice for a card is too expensive you can settle for second or third best without too many issues.
This said, it really depends on the gaming environment, if even in commander you get playgroups made of "I spent $5000+ on my deck, I should have won all the games, How could I lose to your $50 deck? You should have conceded the game! REEEEE!" kind of ********s, not even commander might salvage your gaming experience. Or if you are not interested in a singleton format centered around a legendary creature of your choice.
Pauper is another choice, by definition, pauper decks are much more budget oriented and the format is non-rotating. But even there, your enjoyment is dpendent on the playgroup.
fnm shops have always been terrible places to play if you're looking for casual games. I still play though because I'm addicted to competition in general. As you play more, you'll find more like minded people. Don't go in with any kind of expectation and limit your outings to maybe once a month or so. Also, look for shops that aren't as competitive or offer weak prize support. I find less net deckers/odd behavior at smaller shops.
I read on other forums that this phenomenon or whatever you call it became more of a problem in the late 2000's, also around the time people became comfortable spending $30+ on a single card. I don't know, they need more reprints to boot out the speculation stuff and elitist mindset.
Player type/attitude non-withstanding you may want to try Pauper. You can build a competitive deck for under 100 bucks, sometimes even under 50 bucks and just really have a good time in the format if you like to brew as its cheap. With WotC now picking up Pauper as a unified format and giving it "official" status it really will become a Legacy-Lite format as it actually has been for quite some time.
I don't concern myself with Standard and its rotation so I don't play it. I'm not a multiplayer Magic type so I skip EDH/Commander. I am in the process of giving up on Modern due to cost. I hear your concerns as I am a 48 year old, playing since 1994, husband, father, bread-winner, mortgage paying, tax paying professional career person. Keep up your search, the game is bigger than the dweebs out there that ruin it.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
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One suggestion is to see if the LGS in your area have League. I've found that since league is new every set, people are a little more loose on competition, especially if losing allows them to "buy more packs". On average, a league can cost you 10-16 boosters over 6 weeks which isn't cheap but not astronomical. Yeah, some sets are not very good and there is quite a bit of luck in what you get, but its a different experience every set, playing which cards you might not otherwise. Sometimes you'll even be surprised with a build like mill you'd never play and have fun with it.
The other neat thing about league is its adhoc in many places so, 9-11 PM every Friday night is a good 2 hrs that fits with family schedule better for me.
Well for me, its a personal group of friends that have know eachother for many many years. We get together usually once a week (2-5 of us) and play.
We play open form 60 card multiplayer games. We yell at eachother, mess up turn orders, misplay things all the time. We build decks that range from $10 - $1000. We all win, lose and scoop multiple times a night. THIS IS Magic to me. I have never really went to LGS because none were around. We have all been playing this way for 20 years + (taking multiple hiatuses for months or years at a time.
Its super awesome and we love it when one of our high dollar decks cant get past a frickin Whip Vine from homelands sometimes. We love to rag on eachother for the casualness of our decks or the uber competitiveness sometimes.
Absolutely enjoyable. Dont care about Tier 1, turn 3 wins, making money. Just want to crack some packs and play some Magic.
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Been a member here for over a dozen years. Playing since '95 just got lost in the twitch shuffle.
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I played long ago. Almost 20 years now. Before the internet took off. Back then? The neighborhood card shop was a place that was super welcoming of new players. Card prices were reasonable for Standard. FNM was a good time, every week, as everyone came about with something new and different. Drafts were common. Life was grand.
I dipped my toe back in maybe 5 years ago now. Things sure changed in a big big way. People were cold and distant. There was no welcoming atmosphere and certainly no sense of camaraderie. Prices for Standard were comedic to say the least. Forget anything vintage. FNM equated to "What are the pros playing?" as each and every deck was a copy/paste of those same decks. Thanks internet. Drafts are there, but it's akin to playing with Aspergeristic shut-ins that have zero sort of friendly anything, let alone behavior.
I hung on for a good 8 months, going to various shops in my city, and each was the same. Cold, distant, robotic. I sold what collection I had a couple years back now, to the tune of about $4.9k, paid off a bunch of debt, and gave up. At the time, I sold 4 Serendib Efreets to someone in Paris for right around $2500. Back in the day? 'Dibs were maybe $60/ea? I see they go for $900 on SSG today (lolwut?).
M20 is on the horizon. I got whimsical looking at what's out. Kind of reminded me of how things were before WOTC got bought out. Before the internet came along. Before people got 'more connected' via phones, and less connected face to face.
I thought of getting back in. Then realized that things would be the same as 5 years back. Prices would decimate my wallet. I've expenses now as an adult. Car payments, bills, family stuff. I can't dump X hundred into a halfway decent standard deck. Let alone Vintage prices for some of my old favorite cards (Vesuvan Dopplegangers are HOW MUCH?!). I'd be playing 'the pro' decks at every turn, and since I'm more into exploring the cards synergy on my own, instead of what X PTQ Pro that gets the expansion sets early does, that's not for me. And the people. I might as well play MTGOnline. Same personalities.
I miss the game. Can't get back into it for the above reasons. Just not the same. How do others do it?
In regard to cost (at least for Standard), its not as bad as it was imo (no more $100 Jace). Even some eternal format cards are getting cheaper because of sets like Modern Masters. For myself, im happy to play whatever the best decks in the format are. Ive never been much of a brewer but if you identify as one then there are risks that come along with that.....like overspending for something that doesnt/wont work. For myself, I fund the hobby by cashing in events (I play Fri, Sat, Sun atm). For $350-$950 (and ive found spending the extra $600 isnt worth it to get the mythics) I can preorder a playset of an upcoming set and its largely if not fully paid for by store credit acquired from playing 3 days a week. So while there has to be an initial investment, long term the game is paying for itself. Getting yourself a "bankroll" would go a long way in allowing you to brew more often because you'd have tiered decks to fall back on without spending more if things dont work out while already having the card pool to brew at your leisure
There's 3 decent sized lgs in my city. I even went to the 4th that equates to a single particle board table, amongst a hoarders level of card boxes in a small store space. Each and every single one panned out the same. The Socially Inept, tossing decks around that are blatant copies of the latest PTQ top decks, with a bare minimum of anything remotely close to personable or friendly behavior. To the point of thinking 'What's actually wrong with these people?'.
People are different these days. Phones at the ready at all times, no interest in anything beyond what's in their own heads. It's uncanny and very odd.
In my area, there are many players that are very receptive. Obviously players can get salty at times, but most local players have a personality at least. For me if I didn't have that, I'd quit on the spot. There's literally no reason for me to play without at least that. I don't mind playing a few of those types at Grand Prix every once in a while if it means that I get to play competitive players, which is something else that I value very much.
I would not give up so soon if I were you. When my brother's best friend and I got back into the game during Mirrodin/Kamigawa, the players at the store that we went to were very COLD to us. After a few tournaments of us winning 1st and 2nd every time and everyone started to love us. Winning in Magic comes with notoriety, even if on a very tiny scale, lol. If I win even a local 1K, I notice friend requests on FB and people that I haven't talked to in a while hit me up. It's mostly in good nature and I know good friends from acquaintances, but I just wouldn't give up so soon if I were you. Obviously I realize it's tougher if someone is in it just for the social aspect - for me, I enjoy that AND Competition. Actually there are many aspects of Magic that I LOOOOVE.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)my playgroup are all spikes, so we play to win and there is a "strictly no takeback" rule. For example, there was one time one of us played chalice of the void for the first time, he did not understant xx costs and paid 3 mana thinking chalice would block 3 cmc spells, after xx costs have been explained - he did not take back the play and instead put the chalice into play with one counter on it, later destroyed the chalice with his own ratchet bomb. But the atmosphere is friendly, and we give mtg cards on each other's b-day.
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Also since you only need one copy of a card the price point can be mitigated a bit.
Hands to the sky
Give a round of applause
For the great Miss Y!
Perhaps you are the problem if you went to multiple spaces and feel they are all inadequate compared to your experience in the mid nineties?
Of course it’s different now. We have the internet giving out information and technology faster then we can absorb it.
The game is also 2 and a half decades old with a long track record of stability and profitability. Of course it’s more expensive then 20 years ago.
I honestly don’t think I would even want you or your attitude around me in the game stores.
I can resonate with both of OP's points, though I don't completely agree with them.
MTG has become a very complicated game with tons of rules and very intense moments. Even good friends of mine that are fun to hang around and play with can become very irritable and taxing if they become stressed when playing. Sometimes that can improve over time, sometimes it's just the people and how they deal with challenges, and I've come to accept that.
The monetary issue is one which has a TON of players frustrated, in every single format in MTG. However, there are ways to deal with these monetary issues. Commander sometimes has environments where there's a cap on the sum of money you can spend on your deck. Modern can be a matter of local metagame, sometimes there are a bunch of tier 2 and 3 decks floating around just for the fun of it.
My main suggestion would be to try and change environments. I used to be part of local group A who had pretty serious prices on drafts and very unfun organizers to play with. I've since joined a group of friends that cube together just for fun and it's a blast each time. There was another group I visited and played with, which played Pauper, the cheapest format and one with a very cool player base. I really enjoyed being a part of it but the organizers moved away.
In short the snapshot you saw so far isn't reflective of the general experience of MTG. Try asking around and hopefully you'll something that's more to your liking. Good luck!
"If you don't hit your adversaries wile they're down, they might get up again." --Whipkeeper
"Victory favors neither the righteous nor the wicked. It favors the prepared." -- Lay of the Land
I tried again several times over the years but it was always the same. Epic jerks and/or LGS owners who didn’t give a flip.
It wasn’t until Shadows over Innistrad was released that I got back in because my son found my old collection. We tried to play at a local LGS chain but we easily got pushed out by classic Jeff Albertson or modern Sheldon Cooper types. It would be another two or three sets before I found one of the LGSes was placed under new ownership and the place is absolutely awesome now. Everyone is super friendly, it’s relaxed, and cheaters are dealt with old school.
I know it’s disheartening but keep at it. Try and find a like-minded individual to play kite hen table with. Before I found my LGS, I hooked up with a co-worker and played during lunches at work. It was enough to keep my interest.
As for prices. Yeah, that was mind blowing when I first saw the new prices. Cards that once sold for $60 are now $600+ and others have fallen dramatically to the point of worthlessness. Prices are so far out of reach and so skewed that I really don’t want to carry around any of my Legacy decks. I get called a “scrub” for not putting more than $500 into any of my Commander decks. My vehicle probably won’t fetch more than $5k, why am I carrying around a deck worth twice that? Yeah, no thanks.
So yeah, I get it. It can be rough sometimes. I have a spouse and kids too and only my youngest two really understand what Magic means to me. There are bills to pay ($450 for a week of camp?!?), mortgage, car loans, etc. It can be nuts and stressful sometimes.
If you really want to play, just hang in there. You’ll find the right time. Otherwise, don’t worry about Magic. Just move on and find something else to your liking. First rule is to take care of yourself, you don’t need to take care of Hasbro investors.
You'd fit right in at the lgs' I tried. Let me help you with your friendly demeanor. There's a button to help me address you and your Nu-Male smile.
I'm of the same mindset now. I was going to buy myself a m/nm favourite card of mine for my 40th birthday recently. Saw the price, and laughed. That's half a new top of the line gaming pc.
I think one of the above posts were right. Just nostalgia.
You can also have a blast playing EDH with a $50 deck. TappedOut values one of my favorite lists, cycling tribal, at $70-80. Most of my more casual decks come in at $125-300.
To be honest, I haven't. I'm a vintage or standard nut. I'd get back into it, but I really don't think I can afford even standard. What with the expenses of life? It's either half of a standard deck (half), or my spawnling in a week of summer camp.
-Stay Frosty
-The collapse of the middle class. Mtg is not a game for poor people, and many of the rich will have better things to do. As the middle class has declined, more players are under financial stress, and this stress contributes to their antisocial behavior. I should also say that the decline of the middle class goes beyond money: not having good careers also means a lack of purpose, self respect, and fulfillment.
-Increased social isolation / atomization. The number of people who have zero friends or very few friends has increased significantly. This phenomenon is probably amplified in the mtg demographic. It is not a wholly negative thing, because it will mean some people are actively looking to make friends in the mtg scene. However, when you interpret the stat as "the number of people who have very few friends and have not made the effort to change that has increased", you understand that many such people are not actively looking to make new friends despite their isolation.
-The particular evolution and stasis of the mtg ecosystem. This is less about what's been happening in society and more about how like-minded people attract and repel others. People tend to continue to engage in the activities they enjoy, and they stop doing what they don't enjoy. Let's say mtg started as a mix of friendly, easy going people plus cutthroat/jaded/antisocial people. Then let's say, through randomness, or through some mechanic maybe inherit to the nature of the game, the percentage of the latter group increased. The friendly types will enjoy themselves a bit less as the group becomes colder. This leads some of them to quit, which leads the group to become even colder, and the feedback loop continues until we are in the state you see today, where the people who are looking for the social environment you describe are staying away, yourself included.
-The increase in autism. Autism has been rising in the last 20 years. It's not something that can explain all the behavior you see, but like I said, this is a complex issue, and there may be nonlinear effects to a social group from a linear increase in number of autistic people.
-How much of it is you? You mention you are about 40 years old. Most people are interested in making friends that are close in age. Maybe the young people are nicer to each other and less nice to you. I don't expect this to be the case, but it's a possibility.
I'm oblivious to current standard prices, but a few years back? A competitive, non 'copy the latest PTQ winners deck' could easily run someone a few hundred dollars. Today may be different. Again, I've no basis for your answer beyond prices 'back in the day'. Though, if anything in Standard is at all historical, it's still right difficult for a monocolor/aggro deck to take out a properly made tri-color. In essence, GL winning.
I'm unsure how to respond to most of that. No offense.
You should take a look at Decklists from SCG tour/ 5-0 competitive lists on MTGO / Mythic Championship qualifier/championship lists. You might notice one deck that shows up a lot and that is mono-red aggro and that deck is not that expensive, I think it is around 100$
Prices you can check at Mtggoldfish/Tcgplayer.com/cardkingdom.com
and some mono-colored decks have worked their way to the top of the food chain, Mono-Blue Tempo was one such deck and White Weanie had gotten there as well.
-Stay Frosty
As some already suggested, commander might be a way to play magic without havint the monetary pressure of rotations and generally if the best choice for a card is too expensive you can settle for second or third best without too many issues.
This said, it really depends on the gaming environment, if even in commander you get playgroups made of "I spent $5000+ on my deck, I should have won all the games, How could I lose to your $50 deck? You should have conceded the game! REEEEE!" kind of ********s, not even commander might salvage your gaming experience. Or if you are not interested in a singleton format centered around a legendary creature of your choice.
Pauper is another choice, by definition, pauper decks are much more budget oriented and the format is non-rotating. But even there, your enjoyment is dpendent on the playgroup.
Well... Best of luck.
I read on other forums that this phenomenon or whatever you call it became more of a problem in the late 2000's, also around the time people became comfortable spending $30+ on a single card. I don't know, they need more reprints to boot out the speculation stuff and elitist mindset.
Player type/attitude non-withstanding you may want to try Pauper. You can build a competitive deck for under 100 bucks, sometimes even under 50 bucks and just really have a good time in the format if you like to brew as its cheap. With WotC now picking up Pauper as a unified format and giving it "official" status it really will become a Legacy-Lite format as it actually has been for quite some time.
I don't concern myself with Standard and its rotation so I don't play it. I'm not a multiplayer Magic type so I skip EDH/Commander. I am in the process of giving up on Modern due to cost. I hear your concerns as I am a 48 year old, playing since 1994, husband, father, bread-winner, mortgage paying, tax paying professional career person. Keep up your search, the game is bigger than the dweebs out there that ruin it.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
The other neat thing about league is its adhoc in many places so, 9-11 PM every Friday night is a good 2 hrs that fits with family schedule better for me.
We play open form 60 card multiplayer games. We yell at eachother, mess up turn orders, misplay things all the time. We build decks that range from $10 - $1000. We all win, lose and scoop multiple times a night. THIS IS Magic to me. I have never really went to LGS because none were around. We have all been playing this way for 20 years + (taking multiple hiatuses for months or years at a time.
Its super awesome and we love it when one of our high dollar decks cant get past a frickin Whip Vine from homelands sometimes. We love to rag on eachother for the casualness of our decks or the uber competitiveness sometimes.
Absolutely enjoyable. Dont care about Tier 1, turn 3 wins, making money. Just want to crack some packs and play some Magic.