Simple question. The FTV: Realms thread got me wondering how many people actually think it should or should not be abolished, and some of the cards (most notably the original dual lands) reprinted.
I use the Duels Of The Planeswalkers layout, though I'm right-handed and keep my deck and GY to the left. I dare you to ask me how tempting it is to hold flying creatures in a floating pattern over the table.
I'm not going to give you an answer, because I see the arguement for both sides of this debate.
As a player, I would love to see the list wiped off the face of the planet, because the thing barring me from playing legacy more is the price of cards, mainly manabase.
However, though I am not a collector by any stretch of the imagination, I know why they don't want the list discarded. The thing to be proud of with a collection, most of the time, is the value of your entire collection. By taking away the value, you virtually ruin collections. That would be no bueno.
And yeah, MaRo has specifically said "there are powers beyond his control keeping the reserved list intact. You won't see it go by the way, at least in the foreseeable future."
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This topic has been debated to death, and there is surely a thread about this already on the forum somewhere.
I am personally for the abolishment of the reserved list just because it will only help Legacy become more accessible (and anything that helps my favourite format grow is A-OK in my book) and even if it makes my playsets of Tundra and Underground Sea go down in value, at least I'll be able to use them more often.
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Legacy:UR Sneak and Show IUBG Team America IX Metalworker MUD Modern:UBR Blue Jund IWBX Eldrazi Processors IX Affinity IWRG Nacatl Burn IGR Tron IUBR Grishoalbrand
I'm for yes. The only reason the Reserved list still stands is that Wizards made a promise a long time ago and can't bring themselves to break it, even though the player base is begging them to.
It'd be interesting if Wizards took down the Reserved list, and did not reprint any cards that were on there for 5 years or so. Then suddenly, BAM dual land reprint.
EDIT: I admit I didn't know that Force of Will wasn't on the Reserved list, but I LOLed after knowing that and seeing the above poster's comment.
I definitely think there's meddling going on by Hasbro's legal department, so I don't think we're going to see it abolished anytime soon. But I don't think that the price of Legacy staples will go down even if the duals are abolished. Rather, I think that EDH players, casual players, and newcomers to Legacy will eat up the duals if they got printed with a print run similar to PDS or Commander Decks, and I think the elasticity of the demand function for duals is such that collectors would be hurt a lot less than people think.
I'd love to play more legacy, and availability of duals and higher priced cards is the barrier to entry, so... I'm all for phasing out the RL over the next 3-4 years.
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Went to a new shop from a friend's recommendation, DQ'ed for willful violation of CR 100.6b.
My only thoughts on this are: Where is this magical group that WotC keeps saying is adamantly vocal about keeping the Reserved List?
About nine people out of ten I talk to think the list should be gotten rid of.
Than again - does it affect any format except for Legacy? Why does WotC and the DCI care about the health of any format besides Modern and Standard (meaning they don't really have to address this issue EVER)? It's not like any other old formats move product for them.
Reserve List has gotta stay. You can't make a promise to collectors saying "This will never be printed again!" and change that later. Believe it or not, some people do treat Magic as more of a collectable than a game. In a perfect world, though, it wouldn't exist in the first place.
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Retrodrome!
Hoi, hoi, u embleer hrair
M'saion ulé hraka vair.
I want the reserved list to stay, otherwise my FoWs will lose value.
Unless that's meant to be sarcastic, Force of Will isn't on the reserved list.
I want it gone. I want to be able to play Legacy in person without proxies. That won't happen though, not for a long time so debating it is fruitless really. It seems widely agreed upon that it's a mistake, but it happened and it isn't unhappening no matter what consensus we come to.
As someone that has almost all the Legacy staples, and would potentially lost money if it were abolished............I think it should be abolished completely and recognized as a stupid mistake.
Will it be? No it will not be. Recent indications have been that Wizards wants to get rid of the reserved list but for some reason they can't. I suspect the reason involves several lawyers. Until that situation gets resolved (which quite possibly will never happen) the reserved list is going nowhere.
I don't own plenty of cards on the reserved list, but if they really went back on the promise, that would really be a sad day. I love my vitage deck, and I have spent years collecting just the right cards. I don't care if I have to spend several more. Those cards are, and should be, worth the effort.
"I have no idea what it's like not to be a straight white male, and the experiences of others are irrelevant." -Conservative Motto
Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.
Over 90% (95%/97%? maybe) of us here are players (and even if we're collectors I don't think most of collectors here are Reserve List Collectors), so we naturally want the RL abolished. (I mean, look at the ruckus we made over FTV, their MSRPs and now the Commander Arsenal, we obviously want good things en masse and cheap, but that isn't happening, even for modern things.)
Sometimes I feel like saying they should just put a blanket ban on the Reserved List so that we don't ever have to worry about the Reserved List ever again. They made a promise to the collectors never to print them, they could do the same to players to say we don't every have to worry about them in any format ever again.
But this suggestion of mine stems from my curiosity to see how the community (especially the collectors) react to this. I'm that evil.
I am genuinely shocked that people have voted no. I am a serious collector and own pretty much all of the reserve list (check my sig). I would like it if the cards were easier to get a hold of. Also, the last time that they took cards off of the reserve list and reprinted them, they actually increased in value because the number of standard players looking to pimp out their decks was larger than the number of eternal players looking to trade down thus increasing overall demand for the older versions.
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The Collection:
Every English card ever printed: 99.02%
Arabian Nights through Lorwyn: Complete
Alpha: 94.2% Beta: 95.0%
Unlimited through M10: Complete
I voted "Yes" because I would like Legacy, my favourite format, to survive as a playable format. I like many formats, and I plan on getting into Modern as my 2nd eternal format, but I really think Legacy is such an awesome format that I wouldn't mind a small, likely temporary, loss of value on my dual lands.
While I really do understand the 'collectors' viewpoint, **** 'em, reprint it all. No amount of reprinting is going to bring down the price of black-bordered originals.
...not only is the total number of players expanding very quickly, but at the same time a greater and greater number of those players are being pushed to only desire a small subset of the available cards. These combined forces drastically increase demand for those cards and cause the values of just those specific cards to often balloon out of proportion.
This reserved list bars many people from Legacy, hinders cubes (unless you don't mind proxies), to a pretty minor degree, and alot of the cards on that list are cards that alot of people don't ever think about anyway.. I get that people like having their duelies and moxen keep their value, but i'm pretty sure alot of the people that have them don't actually plan on selling them (I'm not too sure about this last point)
No, I do not play legacy and do not want my old cards to be worth less. I do not personally like old cards so I would not play with them if they were reprinted, but the ones that I do have are gradually increasing in price until someday I can sell them all and buy lots of new cards that I want! This is my investment plan at least.
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Nicol Bolas is so awesome! And so is Kokusho! Bolas x Kokusho 4eva!!! <3
Read their story here!
While I really do understand the 'collectors' viewpoint, **** 'em, reprint it all. No amount of reprinting is going to bring down the price of black-bordered originals.
^
This
I can get why people who have invested heavily in Magic might want the list to stay but, **** em. Just **** em, the list was put in when the game was new and people were squealing like a pig stuck under a gate and people were crying about Chronicles.
The list is slowly but surely sapping the life from Vintage and Legacy by driving up both the cost to enter the format and the availability of cards required to play. Or at least be even remotely competitive, EX: Moxen and Duals just for a start.
Or in short, abolish the damned list and the collectors who don't like it can burn in hell.
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Currently Playing 1994 Magic The Rack Type 1: B/W Zombies Modern: Kuldotha Red Legacy: Pox, Oath Vintag: 10 Proxy Merfolk Pauper: Pestilence, UG Threshold EDH: Karn, Roon, Sliver Queen, Xiahou Dun, Arcanus
The irony about the entire thing is playability is the main driving force in value and if Vintage and Legacy died, (it'll be a while for Legacy) the cards collectors own will drop in value significantly. The exceptions are all the Alpha
/Beta cards as those always rise in value. Although, even that could be called into question. If Vintage dies down so low to the point even GenCon no longer holds Vintage tournaments yearly, there isn't much reason to ever buy power 9 is there?
So in essence, the collectors fighting and voicing their concerns against abolishing it to keep their collection high in value will in turn kill the value of their collection in the long run.
R&D expressed their desire to get rid of it so the only culprits are Hasbro/Wizards to keep it. Although, I'm very surprised to see even that amount of people vote No (granted twice the amount voted Yes). Policies change over time and that's all the reserve list is, a policy. Hopefully, things will work themselves out because I think R&D recognizes the potential for Legacy and even Vintage if they actually focused on it.
Wizards has stated they got rid of the loophole due to consumer backlash(which probably is just an excuse) so if that really is the case, we as a community should voice our opinions and concerns and stir up more than the opposing side has. If we have something to say about it all, we should voice our desire to who it matters most, Wizards.
Idk about abolishing the reserved list. Power 9 for example, should never be reprinted.
A lot of the other cards though, I think if they were reprinted once (lets say in a Modern Masters style, with the new card face and in a stand-alone set, set at a higher price point per pack), it would probably lead to the original cards being worth more, as it would really only be the 'collectors' chasing them.
I realize they're trying to make Modern into a real format, thus the release of Modern Masters. Legacy and Vintage players could argue that because of the availability of the cards on the reserved list that are 'staples' of sorts in Legacy, and the price point connected with them, it is hurting the format.
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As a player, I would love to see the list wiped off the face of the planet, because the thing barring me from playing legacy more is the price of cards, mainly manabase.
However, though I am not a collector by any stretch of the imagination, I know why they don't want the list discarded. The thing to be proud of with a collection, most of the time, is the value of your entire collection. By taking away the value, you virtually ruin collections. That would be no bueno.
And yeah, MaRo has specifically said "there are powers beyond his control keeping the reserved list intact. You won't see it go by the way, at least in the foreseeable future."
EDH: :symg:Omnath:symg: 82% Foil/Pimped!
:symbg:Prossh "Melira Pod" Reanimatior:symrb:
I am personally for the abolishment of the reserved list just because it will only help Legacy become more accessible (and anything that helps my favourite format grow is A-OK in my book) and even if it makes my playsets of Tundra and Underground Sea go down in value, at least I'll be able to use them more often.
Special thanks to Hakai Studios and SushiOtter for the sig!
Legacy: UR Sneak and Show I UBG Team America I X Metalworker MUD
Modern: UBR Blue Jund I WBX Eldrazi Processors I X Affinity I WRG Nacatl Burn I GR Tron I UBR Grishoalbrand
It'd be interesting if Wizards took down the Reserved list, and did not reprint any cards that were on there for 5 years or so. Then suddenly, BAM dual land reprint.
EDIT: I admit I didn't know that Force of Will wasn't on the Reserved list, but I LOLed after knowing that and seeing the above poster's comment.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
I'd love to play more legacy, and availability of duals and higher priced cards is the barrier to entry, so... I'm all for phasing out the RL over the next 3-4 years.
Went to a new shop from a friend's recommendation, DQ'ed for willful violation of CR 100.6b.
Have played duals? I have PucaPoints for them!
(Credit to DarkNightCavalier)
$tandard: Too poor.
Modern:
- GW Birthing Pod(?)
Legacy:
- UWR Delver
About nine people out of ten I talk to think the list should be gotten rid of.
Than again - does it affect any format except for Legacy? Why does WotC and the DCI care about the health of any format besides Modern and Standard (meaning they don't really have to address this issue EVER)? It's not like any other old formats move product for them.
Guess what isn't on the reserve list?
short answer: there are no indications that it will be, but several indications that it won't
This is either a complicated troll on the people who want to keep it, or face-palming ignorance
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
Force of Will isn't on the reserved list.
Reserve List has gotta stay. You can't make a promise to collectors saying "This will never be printed again!" and change that later. Believe it or not, some people do treat Magic as more of a collectable than a game. In a perfect world, though, it wouldn't exist in the first place.
Hoi, hoi, u embleer hrair
M'saion ulé hraka vair.
Unless that's meant to be sarcastic, Force of Will isn't on the reserved list.
I want it gone. I want to be able to play Legacy in person without proxies. That won't happen though, not for a long time so debating it is fruitless really. It seems widely agreed upon that it's a mistake, but it happened and it isn't unhappening no matter what consensus we come to.
Will it be? No it will not be. Recent indications have been that Wizards wants to get rid of the reserved list but for some reason they can't. I suspect the reason involves several lawyers. Until that situation gets resolved (which quite possibly will never happen) the reserved list is going nowhere.
Thanks to Numotflame96 @ Maelstrom Graphics for awesome sig.
Kill with POWER!
Card List
Skithiryx, Tainted World
Dragon's Nest * Double Dragon * Bladewing the Risen
Should the RL leave yes.
Will it ever leave, probable not.
Flame infraction. - Blinking Spirit
Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.
Sometimes I feel like saying they should just put a blanket ban on the Reserved List so that we don't ever have to worry about the Reserved List ever again. They made a promise to the collectors never to print them, they could do the same to players to say we don't every have to worry about them in any format ever again.
But this suggestion of mine stems from my curiosity to see how the community (especially the collectors) react to this. I'm that evil.
Every English card ever printed: 99.02%
Arabian Nights through Lorwyn: Complete
Alpha: 94.2% Beta: 95.0%
Unlimited through M10: Complete
BUT
It's a promise that Wizards made, and they should honor that.
FoW is not on the reserved list
I think its doing more harm than good.
Nicol Bolas is so awesome! And so is Kokusho!
Bolas x Kokusho 4eva!!! <3
Read their story here!
BMy Little KokushoB
RBRakdos UNLEASHED!!!RB
My Standard Decks:
UGRakdos, Bolas, and Ludevic Go To A PartyUG
^
This
I can get why people who have invested heavily in Magic might want the list to stay but, **** em. Just **** em, the list was put in when the game was new and people were squealing like a pig stuck under a gate and people were crying about Chronicles.
The list is slowly but surely sapping the life from Vintage and Legacy by driving up both the cost to enter the format and the availability of cards required to play. Or at least be even remotely competitive, EX: Moxen and Duals just for a start.
Or in short, abolish the damned list and the collectors who don't like it can burn in hell.
Currently Playing
1994 Magic The Rack
Type 1: B/W Zombies
Modern: Kuldotha Red
Legacy: Pox, Oath
Vintag: 10 Proxy Merfolk
Pauper: Pestilence, UG Threshold
EDH: Karn, Roon, Sliver Queen, Xiahou Dun, Arcanus
/Beta cards as those always rise in value. Although, even that could be called into question. If Vintage dies down so low to the point even GenCon no longer holds Vintage tournaments yearly, there isn't much reason to ever buy power 9 is there?
So in essence, the collectors fighting and voicing their concerns against abolishing it to keep their collection high in value will in turn kill the value of their collection in the long run.
R&D expressed their desire to get rid of it so the only culprits are Hasbro/Wizards to keep it. Although, I'm very surprised to see even that amount of people vote No (granted twice the amount voted Yes). Policies change over time and that's all the reserve list is, a policy. Hopefully, things will work themselves out because I think R&D recognizes the potential for Legacy and even Vintage if they actually focused on it.
Wizards has stated they got rid of the loophole due to consumer backlash(which probably is just an excuse) so if that really is the case, we as a community should voice our opinions and concerns and stir up more than the opposing side has. If we have something to say about it all, we should voice our desire to who it matters most, Wizards.
A lot of the other cards though, I think if they were reprinted once (lets say in a Modern Masters style, with the new card face and in a stand-alone set, set at a higher price point per pack), it would probably lead to the original cards being worth more, as it would really only be the 'collectors' chasing them.
I realize they're trying to make Modern into a real format, thus the release of Modern Masters. Legacy and Vintage players could argue that because of the availability of the cards on the reserved list that are 'staples' of sorts in Legacy, and the price point connected with them, it is hurting the format.
Standard
:symr::symg:Jund Midrange:symg::symr:
:symg::symw::symu:Bant Auras:symu::symw::symg:
RDW
:symu::symb::symw:Esper Control:symw::symb::symu:
EDH/Commander
Rhys the Redeemed:symwg:
:symb:Marrow-Gnawer:symb:
:symr::symg::symw:Mayael the Anima:symw::symg::symr:
Bruna, Light of Alabaster