Haha, I'm willing to bet something like 70% of the people saying not to scoop highest playing experience in magic is like winning an fnm. That is not the setting this question is relevent to. I'm even willing to bet less than half of the remaining 30% who have played a ptq have never even gotten close to top8ing a ptq to where this is even a real situation to be questioned. Not even going to mention anyone who even day 2's a gp, let alone ques for a pro tour lol. So yes im saying more than 85% of the comments in this thread are uneducated players who have no experience in the situation to even begin to have any grounds to stand on to back their opinion. Other than "i can't make top 8 so Im going to try to stop you from top8 ing also".
Whoa, so if we disagree with you, then we suck at magic? The think is, even if we can't make top eight, we will be sportsmanlike and not concede so that the others fighting for the same shot have a fair chance as well. Playing might be being a dick to your opponent, but conceding is being a dick to the other challengers.
Haha, I'm willing to bet something like 70% of the people saying not to scoop highest playing experience in magic is like winning an fnm. That is not the setting this question is relevent to. I'm even willing to bet less than half of the remaining 30% who have played a ptq have never even gotten close to top8ing a ptq to where this is even a real situation to be questioned. Not even going to mention anyone who even day 2's a gp, let alone ques for a pro tour lol. So yes im saying more than 85% of the comments in this thread are uneducated players who have no experience in the situation to even begin to have any grounds to stand on to back their opinion. Other than "i can't make top 8 so Im going to try to stop you from top8 ing also".
So, instead of dealing with the issue of the hypocrisy of your position, you just imply that we are being vindictive about our choices? You find a lot of ways to make this issue all about you, don't you. If he will not concede it is because your opponent is jealous and vindictive towards you, and your opponent should ignore the fact that the concession knocks someone else out of top 8 because it helps you. When I am playing I do not get emotionally invested in the game to the point that I could be vindictive, so no...this is not all about you. The only time you do not make this about you is when you fail to see that you are being selfish, self aggrandizing, and a hypocrite. The expectation of play applies to everyone, I am not just singling out you.
Attempting to diminish others in order to make yourself seem more important is an indication that your import is not genuine.
Haha, I'm willing to bet something like 70% of the people saying not to scoop highest playing experience in magic is like winning an fnm. That is not the setting this question is relevent to. I'm even willing to bet less than half of the remaining 30% who have played a ptq have never even gotten close to top8ing a ptq to where this is even a real situation to be questioned. Not even going to mention anyone who even day 2's a gp, let alone ques for a pro tour lol. So yes im saying more than 85% of the comments in this thread are uneducated players who have no experience in the situation to even begin to have any grounds to stand on to back their opinion. Other than "i can't make top 8 so Im going to try to stop you from top8 ing also".
No, I haven't been in this position in Magic, I'll freely admit that. But I HAVE been in this position in other cardgames, so I DO know what it is like. And I'm not talking small-time tourneys either, I'm talking Nationals, World Cup Qualifiers and the likes.
Now how about YOU, Mr Pro, give us some answers on the repeated statements:
Why do YOU deserve the ticket and not Nr 9 who DOES actually play for his win?
Why do YOU deserve a ticket when you can't even beat someone who didn't make Top 8?
Go on, answer these. If not, I think we can safely assume that you are just a simple troll.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
That's really lame :/ I say play your heart out until you're dead and if anyone wants you to concede then they'll just have to earn their win. I didn't realize the magic community could be that lame -_-
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"Beg me for life, and I will fill you with the glory of Phyrexian perfection."
So, instead of dealing with the issue of the hypocrisy of your position, you just imply that we are being vindictive about our choices? You find a lot of ways to make this issue all about you, don't you. If he will not concede it is because your opponent is jealous and vindictive towards you, and your opponent should ignore the fact that the concession knocks someone else out of top 8 because it helps you. When I am playing I do not get emotionally invested in the game to the point that I could be vindictive, so no...this is not all about you. The only time you do not make this about you is when you fail to see that you are being selfish, self aggrandizing, and a hypocrite. The expectation of play applies to everyone, I am not just singling out you.
Attempting to diminish others in order to make yourself seem more important is an indication that your import is not genuine.
my point was that most of the people who have answered have no experience. Thats like asking a mechanic for medical advice -_-
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I will play what wins, not what is convenient. Personal preference is nothing, The win is all that matters. I will netdeck at every opportunity, but I will not let that stifle my creativity. Style points do not appear on tournament reports. A good deck with an incompetent pilot is nothing more than a dressed up match win. I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him. Victory is its own reward, The prize is just a bonus.
Legacy is dying
my point was that most of the people who have answered have no experience. Thats like asking a mechanic for medical advice -_-
I know what you meant, but this is an ethical decision that should not be impacted by environment. The tournament system is in place for people to play to win in order to advance- what you suggests is not exactly against the rules, but it does go outside the spirit of the format (go ahead...mention Sirlin). This is not a hard thing for people who have not been in the situation to make a call on, it is not brain surgery or rewiring a DeLorean- it is a personal ethical decision. You are exploiting a loop-hole that the DCI would close if they could, and you know it- then you have the nerve to feel you are better able to answer this question because you went to a couple of tournaments.
Oh, and again you have failed to address the questions, and instead deflected with a dismissive "you wouldn't understand" type remark.
Haha, I'm willing to bet something like 70% of the people saying not to scoop highest playing experience in magic is like winning an fnm. That is not the setting this question is relevent to. I'm even willing to bet less than half of the remaining 30% who have played a ptq have never even gotten close to top8ing a ptq to where this is even a real situation to be questioned. Not even going to mention anyone who even day 2's a gp, let alone ques for a pro tour lol. So yes im saying more than 85% of the comments in this thread are uneducated players who have no experience in the situation to even begin to have any grounds to stand on to back their opinion. Other than "i can't make top 8 so Im going to try to stop you from top8 ing also".
Apparently, "I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him" doesn't apply when it stops someone from getting a spot in the top 8.
If you're going to have a signature full of cool phrases about competition, you might as well abide by them.
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The wedding is over. Now it's time for the honeymoon.
I've actually been in the opposite scenario multiple times, the most recent being a TCGPlayer.com Gold Event last month.
There were 69 players in the event. The number of players was awkward because that type of attendance called for 7 rounds of Swiss, even though a tournament with just 63 players is typically 6 rounds. This meant that a bad record still had a chance to make Top 8.
After five rounds, there were only two players at 15 points (5-0 record). One of them was me and the other was my friend Jason. One player was at 13 points (4-0-1 record), and everyone else in the field was at 12 points or worse.
Jason and I knew we would get paired against each other in round 6, so we sat down and did the math: 16 points would be sufficient to make Top 8, so we just drew and secured a spot in the Top 8. In round 6, the lone player at 13 lost, meaning that both Jason and I were each going to get paired down against a 15 pointer.
In this situation, a player at 15 points should be able to draw into Top 8. But Jason and I had a thought here: we've already locked our 16 required to advance, so why not dreamcrush?
We wait to see what deck we're paired up against. If we think we have a favorable matchup, we accept the draw offer and put that deck into the Top 8. If we don't like that matchup, we play it out: that effectively gives us two cracks to beat the tough deck. What is the community's thoughts on this?
We wait to see what deck we're paired up against. If we think we have a favorable matchup, we accept the draw offer and put that deck into the Top 8. If we don't like that matchup, we play it out: that effectively gives us two cracks to beat the tough deck. What is the community's thoughts on this?
As you can imagine I feel it is pretty terrible manipulation of the system that is cheating people out of the slot who earned it.
Say the New York Yankees and the Baltimore Orioles are playing the final game of the season. If the Yankees win, they make the playoffs. If they lose, the Boston Red Sox make it instead. The Orioles are in last place and unaffected either way. Is forfeiting the game the right things for the Orioles to do here?
You came to play, so play. If you truly deserve to be in the Top 8, prove it.
I've just hopped into this thread and decided to read the whole thing before making exactly this analogy...Sox fans think alike I guess.
I've played baseball since I was little. My team never conceded a game just because we were out of contention, nor did we expect our opponents to do so either. It's about class and respect for your opponent, something a large number of magic players seem to have misconstrued.
How about the ALCS in 2004? Sox are down 3 games in a 7 game series, a deficit no MLB team had ever recovered from in the history of the sport. Should they have just conceded? I think history answered that question for us.
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:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg:Oops! All Spells:symg::symr::symb::symu::symw:
:symu::symb:Reanimator:symb::symu:
"It's actually quite simple, but since you've only recently begun to walk upright,
it may take some time to explain." Jace Beleren, to Garruk Wildspeaker
Dropbox: You can lose a flash drive, but you'll never lose a dropbox!
As you can imagine I feel it is pretty terrible manipulation of the system that is cheating people out of the slot who earned it.
They haven't earned anything, if you get paired up, tough luck. The only players here who earned anything are the 1 and 2 seeds who have earned the right to dreamcrush or not in the last round
I've actually been in the opposite scenario multiple times, the most recent being a TCGPlayer.com Gold Event last month.
There were 69 players in the event. The number of players was awkward because that type of attendance called for 7 rounds of Swiss, even though a tournament with just 63 players is typically 6 rounds. This meant that a bad record still had a chance to make Top 8.
After five rounds, there were only two players at 15 points (5-0 record). One of them was me and the other was my friend Jason. One player was at 13 points (4-0-1 record), and everyone else in the field was at 12 points or worse.
Jason and I knew we would get paired against each other in round 6, so we sat down and did the math: 16 points would be sufficient to make Top 8, so we just drew and secured a spot in the Top 8. In round 6, the lone player at 13 lost, meaning that both Jason and I were each going to get paired down against a 15 pointer.
In this situation, a player at 15 points should be able to draw into Top 8. But Jason and I had a thought here: we've already locked our 16 required to advance, so why not dreamcrush?
We wait to see what deck we're paired up against. If we think we have a favorable matchup, we accept the draw offer and put that deck into the Top 8. If we don't like that matchup, we play it out: that effectively gives us two cracks to beat the tough deck. What is the community's thoughts on this?
This seems reasonable to me. It's using a more elaborate view of the tournament structure. You aren't asking anyone to forfeit to you. You're allowed to offer draws or losses. For me the smell test is when you start asking others to forfeit. That's when it too stinky to pass the smell test and is blatant tampering.
Friends can scoop to each other that's their choice, but I don't agree with obligating anyone to scoop.
And yes, I don't go to more than 1 or 2 big tournaments a year and I've never placed top 8 at one of those, but if I do, it would be my wish that I earned it.
I'm a game theory guy. If I can play on your turn I do, I almost never do anything in my first main, and I never concede anything ever. I always look to minimize your information when making decisions during play and if you want to say you beat me I'll make you finish it. For the record though I have not ever and will not ever slow play someone out of their win. I find that to be the most disgusting play decision ever.
If you beat him, you have "dreamcrushed." However, if you concede, you "dreamcrushed" someone by allowing your opponent to Top 8. I think the only fair thing is to play it out.
I know what you meant, but this is an ethical decision that should not be impacted by environment. The tournament system is in place for people to play to win in order to advance- what you suggests is not exactly against the rules, but it does go outside the spirit of the format (go ahead...mention Sirlin). This is not a hard thing for people who have not been in the situation to make a call on, it is not brain surgery or rewiring a DeLorean- it is a personal ethical decision. You are exploiting a loop-hole that the DCI would close if they could, and you know it- then you have the nerve to feel you are better able to answer this question because you went to a couple of tournaments.
Oh, and again you have failed to address the questions, and instead deflected with a dismissive "you wouldn't understand" type remark.
No its strictly an environment situation. Who asks an opponent to scoop at an fnm? lol. What are you playing for packs? Who cares. This situation only really matters in big play situation, 3k/PTQ/GP's. Where it actually matters if you top 8 or not. I don't care if some one plays it out at a fnm, what are you playing for 3 packs?
And I didn't fail to answer your question, I choose not to answer it as it is pointless to answer questions when they fall on deaf ears. I am not going to waste my time to just fuel your trolling further, you are unwilling to even try to understand that you cannot change the system. You can only exist within the system in place, yes it can be abused and should so be abused. You choosing not to use the advantage put in front of you is of no one elses fault but your own.
Let me ask you an ethics questions, even with the new rules changes about trigger reminding your opponent. Do you remind your opponent about a shrine trigger even tho you are not required to anymore?
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I will play what wins, not what is convenient. Personal preference is nothing, The win is all that matters. I will netdeck at every opportunity, but I will not let that stifle my creativity. Style points do not appear on tournament reports. A good deck with an incompetent pilot is nothing more than a dressed up match win. I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him. Victory is its own reward, The prize is just a bonus.
Legacy is dying
Let me ask you an ethics questions, even with the new rules changes about trigger reminding your opponent. Do you remind your opponent about a shrine trigger even tho you are not required to anymore?
No. Previously I would have done so because per the rules it is both players' responsibility to keep the game state correct. Now it is up to the player to be attentive and skilled enough to remember their triggers- I would only remind them if the trigger negatively effected them.
You see, this is the same issue- game play skill should determine the winner of the game (with luck being a minor influence), and the winner of enough games gets in to top 8.
I haven't attended a large scale tournament in over a decade, but in my previous experience I was never asked to or asked another player to concede. I suppose that if the opponent was polite about the situation I would consider it, but in all likelihood I would want to play it out. Odds are that if he/she is in a position for a top 8 finish and I'm not, that player would be the favorite. Do what you are supposed to do in that situation then and win.
I also strongly disagree with the arguments stating that less experienced players should concede, and that they "don't get it" if they wouldn't. People go to GP's and other large tournaments to play Competitive Magic. If they didn't want that they would have just stayed home and played on the kitchen table. Back when I went to competitive events I went to play stronger players. When I lost I felt like I learned something and when I beat more experienced players I felt like I achieved something. That lesser player who beat you instead of stepping aside likely gained the confidence to attend more events more often.
No its strictly an environment situation. Who asks an opponent to scoop at an fnm? lol. What are you playing for packs? Who cares. This situation only really matters in big play situation, 3k/PTQ/GP's. Where it actually matters if you top 8 or not. I don't care if some one plays it out at a fnm, what are you playing for 3 packs?
And I didn't fail to answer your question, I choose not to answer it as it is pointless to answer questions when they fall on deaf ears. I am not going to waste my time to just fuel your trolling further, you are unwilling to even try to understand that you cannot change the system. You can only exist within the system in place, yes it can be abused and should so be abused. You choosing not to use the advantage put in front of you is of no one elses fault but your own.
Let me ask you an ethics questions, even with the new rules changes about trigger reminding your opponent. Do you remind your opponent about a shrine trigger even tho you are not required to anymore?
Just curious, how come you ignored my two questions? Because you have no proper answer for them? I mean surely with all your experience you could answer two oh so simple questions, no?
Why do YOU deserve the ticket and not Nr 9 who DOES actually play for his win?
Why do YOU deserve a ticket when you can't even beat someone who didn't make Top 8?
As to your "It can be abused and thus should be abused" point; the tax system can be abused. Should it be? If so, then I'm sure some folks would LOVE to have a chat with you.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
So an even better question in response to..."it can be abused, so it should be abused".
Knowing that it is a loop-hole you are trying to abuse and I can prevent you from doing so by forcing you to play the game as it is intended...
Why would you EVER expect me to concede to you just so you can make Top 8?
It's not my responsibility to help you abuse the loop-holes that exist.
Doesn't matter if I'm in position to Top 8 or have a horrible losing record. My job is to beat you that round. Period. Or am I wrong on the point of the game being to beat your opponent that is presented to you in order to find out who the best person is that day?
I play a lot of poker...slow-rolling is not against the rules anywhere...it's considered the height of disrespect and douche-baggery though in poker. So you simply don't do it if you have any respect for poker as a game or have any class. Though I could technically "abuse it because it can be abused".
the only time it bugs me is when i see a certain person convince 3 different people to concede to him so that he already has 3 'wins' when we were doing 4 matches total before choosing the top ...
if i were to ever make it that far i would want to play ... just like almost every event i go to the top people decide to just split the prize pool instead of playing the final matches out ...
You can only exist within the system in place, yes it can be abused and should so be abused. You choosing not to use the advantage put in front of you is of no one elses fault but your own.
That's not really the point here, though. Of course you're expected to do whatever you can to win. If you can talk your opponent into scooping for your benefit, more power to you.
The question isn't "Am I right for asking for a concession?", it's "If your opponent refuses to scoop, are they wrong?"
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Retrodrome!
Hoi, hoi, u embleer hrair
M'saion ulé hraka vair.
I think its strickly the right play. I commend you on knowing how the system works. Hell I've told an opponent we could both draw into top 8 in the last round of a tourney fully knowing he would not make it and getting him to actually draw, people need to really learn the systems of the game they choose to play.
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I will play what wins, not what is convenient. Personal preference is nothing, The win is all that matters. I will netdeck at every opportunity, but I will not let that stifle my creativity. Style points do not appear on tournament reports. A good deck with an incompetent pilot is nothing more than a dressed up match win. I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him. Victory is its own reward, The prize is just a bonus.
Legacy is dying
I think its strickly the right play. I commend you on knowing how the system works. Hell I've told an opponent we could both draw into top 8 in the last round of a tourney fully knowing he would not make it and getting him to actually draw, people need to really learn the systems of the game they choose to play.
You're the kind of person that should die in a fire. You are the problem of Magic.
I've actually been in the opposite scenario multiple times, the most recent being a TCGPlayer.com Gold Event last month.
There were 69 players in the event. The number of players was awkward because that type of attendance called for 7 rounds of Swiss, even though a tournament with just 63 players is typically 6 rounds. This meant that a bad record still had a chance to make Top 8.
After five rounds, there were only two players at 15 points (5-0 record). One of them was me and the other was my friend Jason. One player was at 13 points (4-0-1 record), and everyone else in the field was at 12 points or worse.
Jason and I knew we would get paired against each other in round 6, so we sat down and did the math: 16 points would be sufficient to make Top 8, so we just drew and secured a spot in the Top 8. In round 6, the lone player at 13 lost, meaning that both Jason and I were each going to get paired down against a 15 pointer.
In this situation, a player at 15 points should be able to draw into Top 8. But Jason and I had a thought here: we've already locked our 16 required to advance, so why not dreamcrush?
We wait to see what deck we're paired up against. If we think we have a favorable matchup, we accept the draw offer and put that deck into the Top 8. If we don't like that matchup, we play it out: that effectively gives us two cracks to beat the tough deck. What is the community's thoughts on this?
I think its strickly the right play. I commend you on knowing how the system works. Hell I've told an opponent we could both draw into top 8 in the last round of a tourney fully knowing he would not make it and getting him to actually draw, people need to really learn the systems of the game they choose to play.
I think you're a huge *******. You are just taking advantage of someone who is dumber/less experienced than you. If everyone took this attitude toward life, we'd all be ripping off kids with Down's Syndrome all day.
There is a clear line between making a strategic decision and being a lying scumbag. You crossed it.
Whoa, so if we disagree with you, then we suck at magic? The think is, even if we can't make top eight, we will be sportsmanlike and not concede so that the others fighting for the same shot have a fair chance as well. Playing might be being a dick to your opponent, but conceding is being a dick to the other challengers.
Thanks to Rivenor for the art.
Attempting to diminish others in order to make yourself seem more important is an indication that your import is not genuine.
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Thread | Draft
No, I haven't been in this position in Magic, I'll freely admit that. But I HAVE been in this position in other cardgames, so I DO know what it is like. And I'm not talking small-time tourneys either, I'm talking Nationals, World Cup Qualifiers and the likes.
Now how about YOU, Mr Pro, give us some answers on the repeated statements:
Why do YOU deserve the ticket and not Nr 9 who DOES actually play for his win?
Why do YOU deserve a ticket when you can't even beat someone who didn't make Top 8?
Go on, answer these. If not, I think we can safely assume that you are just a simple troll.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
my point was that most of the people who have answered have no experience. Thats like asking a mechanic for medical advice -_-
Personal preference is nothing, The win is all that matters.
I will netdeck at every opportunity, but I will not let that stifle my creativity.
Style points do not appear on tournament reports.
A good deck with an incompetent pilot is nothing more than a dressed up match win.
I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him.
Victory is its own reward, The prize is just a bonus.
Legacy is dying
Oh, and again you have failed to address the questions, and instead deflected with a dismissive "you wouldn't understand" type remark.
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Apparently, "I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him" doesn't apply when it stops someone from getting a spot in the top 8.
If you're going to have a signature full of cool phrases about competition, you might as well abide by them.
Thanks to Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures!
There were 69 players in the event. The number of players was awkward because that type of attendance called for 7 rounds of Swiss, even though a tournament with just 63 players is typically 6 rounds. This meant that a bad record still had a chance to make Top 8.
After five rounds, there were only two players at 15 points (5-0 record). One of them was me and the other was my friend Jason. One player was at 13 points (4-0-1 record), and everyone else in the field was at 12 points or worse.
Jason and I knew we would get paired against each other in round 6, so we sat down and did the math: 16 points would be sufficient to make Top 8, so we just drew and secured a spot in the Top 8. In round 6, the lone player at 13 lost, meaning that both Jason and I were each going to get paired down against a 15 pointer.
In this situation, a player at 15 points should be able to draw into Top 8. But Jason and I had a thought here: we've already locked our 16 required to advance, so why not dreamcrush?
We wait to see what deck we're paired up against. If we think we have a favorable matchup, we accept the draw offer and put that deck into the Top 8. If we don't like that matchup, we play it out: that effectively gives us two cracks to beat the tough deck. What is the community's thoughts on this?
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I've just hopped into this thread and decided to read the whole thing before making exactly this analogy...Sox fans think alike I guess.
I've played baseball since I was little. My team never conceded a game just because we were out of contention, nor did we expect our opponents to do so either. It's about class and respect for your opponent, something a large number of magic players seem to have misconstrued.
How about the ALCS in 2004? Sox are down 3 games in a 7 game series, a deficit no MLB team had ever recovered from in the history of the sport. Should they have just conceded? I think history answered that question for us.
it may take some time to explain."
Jace Beleren, to Garruk Wildspeaker
They haven't earned anything, if you get paired up, tough luck. The only players here who earned anything are the 1 and 2 seeds who have earned the right to dreamcrush or not in the last round
This seems reasonable to me. It's using a more elaborate view of the tournament structure. You aren't asking anyone to forfeit to you. You're allowed to offer draws or losses. For me the smell test is when you start asking others to forfeit. That's when it too stinky to pass the smell test and is blatant tampering.
Friends can scoop to each other that's their choice, but I don't agree with obligating anyone to scoop.
And yes, I don't go to more than 1 or 2 big tournaments a year and I've never placed top 8 at one of those, but if I do, it would be my wish that I earned it.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=489747
No its strictly an environment situation. Who asks an opponent to scoop at an fnm? lol. What are you playing for packs? Who cares. This situation only really matters in big play situation, 3k/PTQ/GP's. Where it actually matters if you top 8 or not. I don't care if some one plays it out at a fnm, what are you playing for 3 packs?
And I didn't fail to answer your question, I choose not to answer it as it is pointless to answer questions when they fall on deaf ears. I am not going to waste my time to just fuel your trolling further, you are unwilling to even try to understand that you cannot change the system. You can only exist within the system in place, yes it can be abused and should so be abused. You choosing not to use the advantage put in front of you is of no one elses fault but your own.
Let me ask you an ethics questions, even with the new rules changes about trigger reminding your opponent. Do you remind your opponent about a shrine trigger even tho you are not required to anymore?
Personal preference is nothing, The win is all that matters.
I will netdeck at every opportunity, but I will not let that stifle my creativity.
Style points do not appear on tournament reports.
A good deck with an incompetent pilot is nothing more than a dressed up match win.
I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him.
Victory is its own reward, The prize is just a bonus.
Legacy is dying
You see, this is the same issue- game play skill should determine the winner of the game (with luck being a minor influence), and the winner of enough games gets in to top 8.
It is, however, quite off topic.
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PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
I also strongly disagree with the arguments stating that less experienced players should concede, and that they "don't get it" if they wouldn't. People go to GP's and other large tournaments to play Competitive Magic. If they didn't want that they would have just stayed home and played on the kitchen table. Back when I went to competitive events I went to play stronger players. When I lost I felt like I learned something and when I beat more experienced players I felt like I achieved something. That lesser player who beat you instead of stepping aside likely gained the confidence to attend more events more often.
Just curious, how come you ignored my two questions? Because you have no proper answer for them? I mean surely with all your experience you could answer two oh so simple questions, no?
Why do YOU deserve the ticket and not Nr 9 who DOES actually play for his win?
Why do YOU deserve a ticket when you can't even beat someone who didn't make Top 8?
As to your "It can be abused and thus should be abused" point; the tax system can be abused. Should it be? If so, then I'm sure some folks would LOVE to have a chat with you.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Knowing that it is a loop-hole you are trying to abuse and I can prevent you from doing so by forcing you to play the game as it is intended...
Why would you EVER expect me to concede to you just so you can make Top 8?
It's not my responsibility to help you abuse the loop-holes that exist.
Doesn't matter if I'm in position to Top 8 or have a horrible losing record. My job is to beat you that round. Period. Or am I wrong on the point of the game being to beat your opponent that is presented to you in order to find out who the best person is that day?
I play a lot of poker...slow-rolling is not against the rules anywhere...it's considered the height of disrespect and douche-baggery though in poker. So you simply don't do it if you have any respect for poker as a game or have any class. Though I could technically "abuse it because it can be abused".
if i were to ever make it that far i would want to play ... just like almost every event i go to the top people decide to just split the prize pool instead of playing the final matches out ...
That's not really the point here, though. Of course you're expected to do whatever you can to win. If you can talk your opponent into scooping for your benefit, more power to you.
The question isn't "Am I right for asking for a concession?", it's "If your opponent refuses to scoop, are they wrong?"
Hoi, hoi, u embleer hrair
M'saion ulé hraka vair.
I think its strickly the right play. I commend you on knowing how the system works. Hell I've told an opponent we could both draw into top 8 in the last round of a tourney fully knowing he would not make it and getting him to actually draw, people need to really learn the systems of the game they choose to play.
Personal preference is nothing, The win is all that matters.
I will netdeck at every opportunity, but I will not let that stifle my creativity.
Style points do not appear on tournament reports.
A good deck with an incompetent pilot is nothing more than a dressed up match win.
I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him.
Victory is its own reward, The prize is just a bonus.
Legacy is dying
You're the kind of person that should die in a fire. You are the problem of Magic.
Flame warning. ~parinoid
I think this is really smart play.
I think you're a huge *******. You are just taking advantage of someone who is dumber/less experienced than you. If everyone took this attitude toward life, we'd all be ripping off kids with Down's Syndrome all day.
There is a clear line between making a strategic decision and being a lying scumbag. You crossed it.
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