Going to make a prediction on secondary singles sales of 2XM. (I hope I am wrong actually.)
Singles of U, R and M playables will not drop more than 25% off their current market singles price.
Singles of U, R and M fringe cards will drop between 75% to 90% off their current market singles prices.
Supply will be low. Inflation is real. Whales/hoarders/investors are going to buy and sit on boxes throttling supply of needed playable singles. I hope I am wrong but I think if people are looking at prices to sharplydrop of staple strong playable Mythics and Rares they are setting themselves up for disappointment.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
So what you're saying is buy packs? Seems contradictory to your other comments.
No, hell no! Save your hard earned money if possible and be a wise spender. Not sure where you came to that conclusion. Again I will restate. If end-users think that this set is going to drastically reduce the prices of singles of highly played mythics and rares they are in for a shock. The fringe and garbo rares will of course drop like a brick off a cliff. But the prices of the sought after staples is not going to decrease that much at all and the window that they do decrease is going to be significantly shorter than in Masters products of the past. Its just a hunch but the signs are pointing towards it.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I think edh cards like Aminatou, the Fateshifter and other foil-only printings will either drop less than 25% or possibly go up since its the first nonfoil printing.
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2 full art damnation
If end-users think that this set is going to drastically reduce the prices of singles of highly played mythics and rares they are in for a shock.
I simply do not understand why people would expect this.
Should people WANT it? Sure. People want the game pieces to play their preferred game. It is a completely understandable thing to WANT. I 100% support and feel for people who WANT this.
If you come EXPECTING this and get disappointed when it doesn't happen, though, you are simply an idiot. Some cards will lower in price a bit and cards that simply don't have printings (like Warrior's Oath) will settle at more reasonable prices. Creating a temporary reduction in prices is enough to create a buying frenzy, regardless of how large the reduction may be.
Why would wizards reduce prices to "reasonable" levels to let everyone get the game pieces they want when they see the player behaviors they want with any degree of reduction? In fact, it could be argued that smaller reductions allows wizards to retain "reprint equity" on more valuable cards and profit from further reprints down the road.
If you are frustrated that cards are not cheap, I get that. Be frustrated all you want. If you are somehow disappointed that wizards didn't take an entirely new course of action and reprint valuable cards to oblivion when they did not need to do so as a company... where did you even get that expectation? Are you disappointed each day when you walk outside and winning lottery tickets don't fall from the heavens?
I apologize for ranting. I feel for those who feel frustrated with a situation that shows no signs of changing but am thoroughly annoyed with those who act perpetually surprised and disappointed that the situation did not magically change when there was no reasonable cause to assume that it might.
I think edh cards like Aminatou, the Fateshifter and other foil-only printings will either drop less than 25% or possibly go up since its the first nonfoil printing.
We will have to disagree then. We will see soon though.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Short term stuff goes down a lot, if people that open product for money need to flip them to get a paycheck.
Portal 3 Kingdom cards will drop the most , as all their value is coupled to being super rare (they are still mythic, but they cant sustain value for the fringe group of people that actually want or need them).
The real crazy value might be in the Collectors pack special foil stuff, thats basically Master-Piece rare and the big hit for an extremely expensive product.
I simply do not understand why people would expect this.
Because in past Masters and reprint products end consumers have been conditioned to not only see this but expect this. That isn't going to happen this go around with 2XM.
There is a lot of "I only buy singles now." That is fine but those people need to be prepared that those singles are going to have inflated prices for the reasons I mentioned above. PokerKingDave is a perfect example. He is expecting quite the drop in singles prices. He is in for a let down from what I see happening. Its not his fault, he has been conditioned from past Masters sets that often significantly drop single prices of playable eternal staples for 4 to 6 months after a set release.
This set has a limited run. Print numbers should have been increased and price point should have been decreased to get the necessary reprints into end user/players hands. As it stands this will do almost nothing to the price point of singles and further enrich the whales and hoarders that buy boxes/cases by the hundreds to speculate/invest and sell for profit like a stock.
Yes I want cheaper staples in eternal formats. I'd love to see the value drop 50% across the board. That isn't going to happen and WotC will not do it. Players need to realize this and start upping the pressure on Hasbro/WotC to REALLY bring the cost of the game (eternal formats) down. This set won't do it and it any small price drops will be fleeting at best.
Are you disappointed each day when you walk outside and winning lottery tickets don't fall from the heavens?
Jeesh, save the hyperbole. No one thinks this, claims this or expects this. It is a cheap slight on my hypothesis and it holds no value.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I simply do not understand why people would expect this.
Because in past Masters and reprint products end consumers have been conditioned to not only see this but expect this. That isn't going to happen this go around with 2XM.
There is a lot of "I only buy singles now." That is fine but those people need to be prepared that those singles are going to have inflated prices for the reasons I mentioned above. PokerKingDave is a perfect example. He is expecting quite the drop in singles prices. He is in for a let down from what I see happening. Its not his fault, he has been conditioned from past Masters sets that often significantly drop single prices of playable eternal staples for 4 to 6 months after a set release.
This set has a limited run. Print numbers should have been increased and price point should have been decreased to get the necessary reprints into end user/players hands. As it stands this will do almost nothing to the price point of singles and further enrich the whales and hoarders that buy boxes/cases by the hundreds to speculate/invest and sell for profit like a stock.
Yes I want cheaper staples in eternal formats. I'd love to see the value drop 50% across the board. That isn't going to happen and WotC will not do it. Players need to realize this and start upping the pressure on Hasbro/WotC to REALLY bring the cost of the game (eternal formats) down. This set won't do it and it any small price drops will be fleeting at best.
Are you disappointed each day when you walk outside and winning lottery tickets don't fall from the heavens?
Jeesh, save the hyperbole. No one thinks this, claims this or expects this. It is a cheap slight on my hypothesis and it holds no value.
I don't see why this set is any different from any other set. Yes, inflation sucks now, but players are still going to buy product.
How do we quantify what WOTC is considering a limited print run? Do they release how much less than a standard legal set is being printed?
I don't remember the last time I bought any mtg cards besides cheap stuff for casual edh.
I will agree with you about the window of price drops may be smaller than usual, but I think thats because it feels like theres a new set releasing every few weeks.
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snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation
Short term stuff goes down a lot, if people that open product for money need to flip them to get a paycheck.
That's where my inflationary comment comes in. People that flip will be charging more due to inflation. Lowering the "usual" price drops. So "a lot" will become not a lot. It always gets passed along and certainly will be this time around.
If these were 6 to 8 dollar packs I would be more inclined to say that the usual drop would be the norm. But these are 12 to 16 dollar packs. Someone is paying for these and those somebodies are going to amortize that cost into the price of the singles they sell.
As for print run all I have is what I have been gleaning from the internet in that print run will be limited or smallish. I hope those people are wrong but with supply chain issues still in high gear I would assume this is the new "normal".
Lastly I should probably specify that I am talking about mass market, regular border reprints as well. I am not including all the special border, foils and borderless collector style versions.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Start watching this around the 10:30 mark. He explains exactly what I am trying to say about the singles market. With the exception that he predicts a singles market crash after what he describes occurs. And I agree, long term they will plummet if what he predicts happens. Short term on the other hand will be the exact opposite. But there will be people who eventually just do not sell if prices go to low. Then THAT could send prices right back up into the stratosphere.
The Magic Historian and this is posted up on YouTube TODAY!!!
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
If Double Masters 2022 ends up like Time Spiral Remastered where Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro decides not to issue another print run like they almost did with Jumpstart then we're in BIG trouble!
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If Double Masters 2022 ends up like Time Spiral Remastered where Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro decides not to issue another print run like they almost did with Jumpstart then we're in BIG trouble!
Once again knowing the current supply chain issues and economic environment I really don't see them ordering up a second print run. Who knows, they may, but the signs just don't point that way.
A lot of this uncertainty could be resolved if they would make public production numbers of products. Of course they want to keep the end consumer in the dark. An uninformed and ignorant buyer is the best lemming to lead off the cliff.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
we've already seen singles prices drop significantly, and the set isn't even released yet.
you're fooling yourself if you don't think they'll fall further, especially short term.
some of these things have multiple versions now, and sure, while mh2 fetches were printed and obtainable over a longer period of time, they did fall rapidly after the sets release all the same.
we've also heard supply chain production issues since oh idk, at least eldraine? sure, there's covid, but when they say it for every single set it feels more like a FOMO hype driver than an actual problem. even time spiral remastered, which was crazy hard to get a for a bit, still pops up from time to time at target/walmart - and prices within that set also fell dramatically.
long term? everything will creep back up, short term, yeah prices are going to dip pretty hard. same as they have with every single set in modern history - same as every single masters set. ever.
We will have to disagree then. Pre-sell prices are all over the place. When the set drops we will see what the situation is. Again I hope I am wrong and you are right. But I am not seeing the hefty pre-sell price dips that we have seen in masters sets past. End users/players are going to be paying more in general for their singles and that window will shut quickly as the small print run is snapped up by speculators and the few copies quickly snapped up by end users. Its coming.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
We will have to disagree then. Pre-sell prices are all over the place. When the set drops we will see what the situation is. Again I hope I am wrong and you are right. But I am not seeing the hefty pre-sell price dips that we have seen in masters sets past. End users/players are going to be paying more in general for their singles and that window will shut quickly as the small print run is snapped up by speculators and the few copies quickly snapped up by end users. Its coming.
Approx $39, pre-selling for $35. 11% down. That's it, 11% down. Good, yes. Like the "old days", not even close.
I don’t think it’s fair to support your opinion before the set is actually released. I would say you have to give it a month after release to see price drops.
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big receipts
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snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation
We will have to disagree then. Pre-sell prices are all over the place. When the set drops we will see what the situation is. Again I hope I am wrong and you are right. But I am not seeing the hefty pre-sell price dips that we have seen in masters sets past. End users/players are going to be paying more in general for their singles and that window will shut quickly as the small print run is snapped up by speculators and the few copies quickly snapped up by end users. Its coming.
Approx $39, pre-selling for $35. 11% down. That's it, 11% down. Good, yes. Like the "old days", not even close.
I don’t think it’s fair to support your opinion before the set is actually released. I would say you have to give it a month after release to see price drops.
That is part of my point though. Pre-sell prices are starting higher than usual pre-sell prices. (Remember once again I am talking about playable, staple mythics and rares) If they start higher post-release sale prices are bound to be higher as well. As you state a month after release is usually when prices are lowest on singles. My theory is that at one month the prices of these will be higher than usual. Additionally I think that at the one month out point prices are going to bounce right back up on these staples to pre-2XM prices. We will see. We don't have to wait that long to see if I am correct or not. I think singles buyers should be aware this could happen and plan accordingly.
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STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
For a more serious response, you only have to look at the cards in Double Masters I. Popular cards declined somewhat but stabilized (Mana Crypt). Higher-valued cards that don't see much play dropped. Same with obscure cards that maintained value due to the nature of being scarce. The originals may see a decline, but depending on how they're viewed/played across formats, they'll stabilize and/or even rise.
*eats a sandwich*
'buster
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For a more serious response, you only have to look at the cards in Double Masters I. Popular cards declined somewhat but stabilized (Mana Crypt). Higher-valued cards that don't see much play dropped. Same with obscure cards that maintained value due to the nature of being scarce. The originals may see a decline, but depending on how they're viewed/played across formats, they'll stabilize and/or even rise.
*eats a sandwich*
'buster
Certainly the safe bet to take and any other year I would agree. The issue is though is that the economy is destabilizing due to the past two years and everyone is trying to make bank in hopes to maintain profits, case and point how WOTC is increasing the price of sealed product.
I just do not see the reason why this needs to be a limited set nor a $16 per pack set besides the desire to see how far they can take things.
All and all it is not healthy for the game nor the player base.
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Supply will be low. Inflation is real. Whales/hoarders/investors are going to buy and sit on boxes throttling supply of needed playable singles.
Do whales really want reprints, though? I could see them sitting this one out at least partially. Actually I haven't been offered much from this set either, looks a lot worse than Modern Horizons, which had fetchland reprints out the wazoo, powerful new cards at all rarities, and a good draft experience.
Anyways, Warrior's Oath and Imperial Seal will be the biggest price drops in the set, obviously, though their original printings will retain most of the value. Seal is certainly playable by most measures but the new set version can't hold a P3K price even at mythic. Oath is needed almost nowhere (fringe edh play at best, and even there you have better options, so it's only a redundacy) so it will go down to 5 bucks is my guess. Just look at these greedy cardshops trying to sell it to you for 150 dollars! Look at how "agreed upon" that price is! DM2 Imperial Seal might be more like a 50 card during the set's run, but will probably climb back up being a premier tutor. I'm not totally sure how much, but my guess is ~90.
I think prices on white border Mana Vault will drop a bit, the 4th and 5th ones, in the short term. Sensei's Divining Top is resilient but DM2 will probably prove to be a 15 dollar version, in concert with the small List printing. Top has gotten the Scroll Rack treatment and is a similar card.
Certainly the safe bet to take and any other year I would agree. The issue is though is that the economy is destabilizing due to the past two years and everyone is trying to make bank in hopes to maintain profits, case and point how WOTC is increasing the price of sealed product.
I just do not see the reason why this needs to be a limited set nor a $16 per pack set besides the desire to see how far they can take things.
All and all it is not healthy for the game nor the player base.
Yes, someone who gets it. It is all about short term gains and long term game health be damned. Collectability, prestige, desire to own and finance are key to MTG but they should NOT be wholly concentrated on while ignoring other key aspects of the game and its players.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
If Double Masters 2022 ends up like Time Spiral Remastered where Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro decides not to issue another print run like they almost did with Jumpstart then we're in BIG trouble!
Reasonably, we can assume that Double Masters will have double the print run of other Masters sets, no?
Regarding whales, if you can't beat them, isn't it only logical to each become one ourselves and join the pod?
What even qualifies someone as a whale? Do they have to spend more than a certain amount on product?
Do whales only target sealed product while sharks go after singles?
Are sharks more aggressively attracted to foils?
Oftentimes, when sets like this gets released, I'm most curious about cards which are getting either their first foiling, their first foil reprint, or their first new border print
I'm mostly a commander player so this set is appealing for obvious reasons, but even I know that commander staples which see play in other formats will be worth more, and those should be the cards which you buy first, as they'll be more expensive and difficult to get later compared to commander-only cards. Strangely, I couldn't help but notice that mana drain at mythic (which goes in every blue deck and is playable in legacy) started preselling at the same price as sensei's top which is banned in legacy and printed at rare (is this solely because it goes in any commander deck? does nobody care about or play legacy anymore? Doesn't top already have more printings). Force of negation and phyrexian altar, both at rare, also started preselling higher than mana drain. I realize FoN sees play in modern (which more people play than legacy), but even taking that into account, shouldn't mana drain still be selling higher when it's in the same set at mythic? Like many people looking for patterns to explain the numbers, I find the market both very fascinating and very confusing
Strangely, I couldn't help but notice that mana drain at mythic (which goes in every blue deck and is playable in legacy) started preselling at the same price as sensei's top which is banned in legacy and printed at rare (is this solely because it goes in any commander deck? does nobody care about or play legacy anymore? Doesn't top already have more printings). Force of negation and phyrexian altar, both at rare, also started preselling higher than mana drain. I realize FoN sees play in modern (which more people play than legacy), but even taking that into account, shouldn't mana drain still be selling higher when it's in the same set at mythic? Like many people looking for patterns to explain the numbers, I find the market both very fascinating and very confusing
Mana Drain is banned in Legacy and weak to unplayable in Vintage.
Oops, I stand corrected. somehow I thought it was legal.
Hmmmm...so it's just a strictly better counterspell for commander, and that's it?
I wonder why it got printed here instead of commander legends
Too many cards are banned in legacy unnecessary, but that's just my opinion and a topic probably best discussed elsewhere
EDIT: Still no regrets. locked in my copies at 40 cad and now they're already selling at 60
EDIT 2: Nice,... Mana Drain now at 65, ahead of Force of Negation at 60. That's what I'm talking about good mythics > good rares as it should be
I'm curious to see if the fiasco with Commander Legends: Battle for Baldurs Gate is going to affect this set.
I'm specifically referring to Tolarian Community College's booster box game where he opened less than $10 of value in his box.
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alpha mox emerald
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3 force of will
4 grove of the burnwillows
snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation
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Singles of U, R and M playables will not drop more than 25% off their current market singles price.
Singles of U, R and M fringe cards will drop between 75% to 90% off their current market singles prices.
Supply will be low. Inflation is real. Whales/hoarders/investors are going to buy and sit on boxes throttling supply of needed playable singles. I hope I am wrong but I think if people are looking at prices to sharplydrop of staple strong playable Mythics and Rares they are setting themselves up for disappointment.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
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No, hell no! Save your hard earned money if possible and be a wise spender. Not sure where you came to that conclusion. Again I will restate. If end-users think that this set is going to drastically reduce the prices of singles of highly played mythics and rares they are in for a shock. The fringe and garbo rares will of course drop like a brick off a cliff. But the prices of the sought after staples is not going to decrease that much at all and the window that they do decrease is going to be significantly shorter than in Masters products of the past. Its just a hunch but the signs are pointing towards it.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I expect cards like liliana, the last hope, Seasoned Pyromancer to drop 50%
I think edh cards like Aminatou, the Fateshifter and other foil-only printings will either drop less than 25% or possibly go up since its the first nonfoil printing.
pucatrade
big receipts
alpha mox emerald
beta time walk
4 goyfs received
3 liliana of the veil
4 karn liberated
3 force of will
4 grove of the burnwillows
snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation
I simply do not understand why people would expect this.
Should people WANT it? Sure. People want the game pieces to play their preferred game. It is a completely understandable thing to WANT. I 100% support and feel for people who WANT this.
If you come EXPECTING this and get disappointed when it doesn't happen, though, you are simply an idiot. Some cards will lower in price a bit and cards that simply don't have printings (like Warrior's Oath) will settle at more reasonable prices. Creating a temporary reduction in prices is enough to create a buying frenzy, regardless of how large the reduction may be.
Why would wizards reduce prices to "reasonable" levels to let everyone get the game pieces they want when they see the player behaviors they want with any degree of reduction? In fact, it could be argued that smaller reductions allows wizards to retain "reprint equity" on more valuable cards and profit from further reprints down the road.
If you are frustrated that cards are not cheap, I get that. Be frustrated all you want. If you are somehow disappointed that wizards didn't take an entirely new course of action and reprint valuable cards to oblivion when they did not need to do so as a company... where did you even get that expectation? Are you disappointed each day when you walk outside and winning lottery tickets don't fall from the heavens?
I apologize for ranting. I feel for those who feel frustrated with a situation that shows no signs of changing but am thoroughly annoyed with those who act perpetually surprised and disappointed that the situation did not magically change when there was no reasonable cause to assume that it might.
We will have to disagree then. We will see soon though.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Portal 3 Kingdom cards will drop the most , as all their value is coupled to being super rare (they are still mythic, but they cant sustain value for the fringe group of people that actually want or need them).
The real crazy value might be in the Collectors pack special foil stuff, thats basically Master-Piece rare and the big hit for an extremely expensive product.
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Because in past Masters and reprint products end consumers have been conditioned to not only see this but expect this. That isn't going to happen this go around with 2XM.
There is a lot of "I only buy singles now." That is fine but those people need to be prepared that those singles are going to have inflated prices for the reasons I mentioned above. PokerKingDave is a perfect example. He is expecting quite the drop in singles prices. He is in for a let down from what I see happening. Its not his fault, he has been conditioned from past Masters sets that often significantly drop single prices of playable eternal staples for 4 to 6 months after a set release.
This set has a limited run. Print numbers should have been increased and price point should have been decreased to get the necessary reprints into end user/players hands. As it stands this will do almost nothing to the price point of singles and further enrich the whales and hoarders that buy boxes/cases by the hundreds to speculate/invest and sell for profit like a stock.
Yes I want cheaper staples in eternal formats. I'd love to see the value drop 50% across the board. That isn't going to happen and WotC will not do it. Players need to realize this and start upping the pressure on Hasbro/WotC to REALLY bring the cost of the game (eternal formats) down. This set won't do it and it any small price drops will be fleeting at best.
Jeesh, save the hyperbole. No one thinks this, claims this or expects this. It is a cheap slight on my hypothesis and it holds no value.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I don't see why this set is any different from any other set. Yes, inflation sucks now, but players are still going to buy product.
How do we quantify what WOTC is considering a limited print run? Do they release how much less than a standard legal set is being printed?
I don't remember the last time I bought any mtg cards besides cheap stuff for casual edh.
I will agree with you about the window of price drops may be smaller than usual, but I think thats because it feels like theres a new set releasing every few weeks.
pucatrade
big receipts
alpha mox emerald
beta time walk
4 goyfs received
3 liliana of the veil
4 karn liberated
3 force of will
4 grove of the burnwillows
snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation
That's where my inflationary comment comes in. People that flip will be charging more due to inflation. Lowering the "usual" price drops. So "a lot" will become not a lot. It always gets passed along and certainly will be this time around.
If these were 6 to 8 dollar packs I would be more inclined to say that the usual drop would be the norm. But these are 12 to 16 dollar packs. Someone is paying for these and those somebodies are going to amortize that cost into the price of the singles they sell.
As for print run all I have is what I have been gleaning from the internet in that print run will be limited or smallish. I hope those people are wrong but with supply chain issues still in high gear I would assume this is the new "normal".
Lastly I should probably specify that I am talking about mass market, regular border reprints as well. I am not including all the special border, foils and borderless collector style versions.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
The Magic Historian and this is posted up on YouTube TODAY!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnLne5g4kBY
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
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"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Once again knowing the current supply chain issues and economic environment I really don't see them ordering up a second print run. Who knows, they may, but the signs just don't point that way.
A lot of this uncertainty could be resolved if they would make public production numbers of products. Of course they want to keep the end consumer in the dark. An uninformed and ignorant buyer is the best lemming to lead off the cliff.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
you're fooling yourself if you don't think they'll fall further, especially short term.
some of these things have multiple versions now, and sure, while mh2 fetches were printed and obtainable over a longer period of time, they did fall rapidly after the sets release all the same.
we've also heard supply chain production issues since oh idk, at least eldraine? sure, there's covid, but when they say it for every single set it feels more like a FOMO hype driver than an actual problem. even time spiral remastered, which was crazy hard to get a for a bit, still pops up from time to time at target/walmart - and prices within that set also fell dramatically.
long term? everything will creep back up, short term, yeah prices are going to dip pretty hard. same as they have with every single set in modern history - same as every single masters set. ever.
Don't believe me? And there are MANY others.
Smothering Tithe
Approx $39, pre-selling for $35. 11% down. That's it, 11% down. Good, yes. Like the "old days", not even close.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I don’t think it’s fair to support your opinion before the set is actually released. I would say you have to give it a month after release to see price drops.
pucatrade
big receipts
alpha mox emerald
beta time walk
4 goyfs received
3 liliana of the veil
4 karn liberated
3 force of will
4 grove of the burnwillows
snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation
That is part of my point though. Pre-sell prices are starting higher than usual pre-sell prices. (Remember once again I am talking about playable, staple mythics and rares) If they start higher post-release sale prices are bound to be higher as well. As you state a month after release is usually when prices are lowest on singles. My theory is that at one month the prices of these will be higher than usual. Additionally I think that at the one month out point prices are going to bounce right back up on these staples to pre-2XM prices. We will see. We don't have to wait that long to see if I am correct or not. I think singles buyers should be aware this could happen and plan accordingly.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
They'll fluctuate, stabilize, and/or tank hard.
For a more serious response, you only have to look at the cards in Double Masters I. Popular cards declined somewhat but stabilized (Mana Crypt). Higher-valued cards that don't see much play dropped. Same with obscure cards that maintained value due to the nature of being scarce. The originals may see a decline, but depending on how they're viewed/played across formats, they'll stabilize and/or even rise.
*eats a sandwich*
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
Certainly the safe bet to take and any other year I would agree. The issue is though is that the economy is destabilizing due to the past two years and everyone is trying to make bank in hopes to maintain profits, case and point how WOTC is increasing the price of sealed product.
I just do not see the reason why this needs to be a limited set nor a $16 per pack set besides the desire to see how far they can take things.
All and all it is not healthy for the game nor the player base.
Do whales really want reprints, though? I could see them sitting this one out at least partially. Actually I haven't been offered much from this set either, looks a lot worse than Modern Horizons, which had fetchland reprints out the wazoo, powerful new cards at all rarities, and a good draft experience.
Anyways, Warrior's Oath and Imperial Seal will be the biggest price drops in the set, obviously, though their original printings will retain most of the value. Seal is certainly playable by most measures but the new set version can't hold a P3K price even at mythic. Oath is needed almost nowhere (fringe edh play at best, and even there you have better options, so it's only a redundacy) so it will go down to 5 bucks is my guess. Just look at these greedy cardshops trying to sell it to you for 150 dollars! Look at how "agreed upon" that price is! DM2 Imperial Seal might be more like a 50 card during the set's run, but will probably climb back up being a premier tutor. I'm not totally sure how much, but my guess is ~90.
I think prices on white border Mana Vault will drop a bit, the 4th and 5th ones, in the short term. Sensei's Divining Top is resilient but DM2 will probably prove to be a 15 dollar version, in concert with the small List printing. Top has gotten the Scroll Rack treatment and is a similar card.
Yes, someone who gets it. It is all about short term gains and long term game health be damned. Collectability, prestige, desire to own and finance are key to MTG but they should NOT be wholly concentrated on while ignoring other key aspects of the game and its players.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Reasonably, we can assume that Double Masters will have double the print run of other Masters sets, no?
Regarding whales, if you can't beat them, isn't it only logical to each become one ourselves and join the pod?
What even qualifies someone as a whale? Do they have to spend more than a certain amount on product?
Do whales only target sealed product while sharks go after singles?
Are sharks more aggressively attracted to foils?
Oftentimes, when sets like this gets released, I'm most curious about cards which are getting either their first foiling, their first foil reprint, or their first new border print
I'm mostly a commander player so this set is appealing for obvious reasons, but even I know that commander staples which see play in other formats will be worth more, and those should be the cards which you buy first, as they'll be more expensive and difficult to get later compared to commander-only cards. Strangely, I couldn't help but notice that mana drain at mythic (which goes in every blue deck and is playable in legacy) started preselling at the same price as sensei's top which is banned in legacy and printed at rare (is this solely because it goes in any commander deck? does nobody care about or play legacy anymore? Doesn't top already have more printings). Force of negation and phyrexian altar, both at rare, also started preselling higher than mana drain. I realize FoN sees play in modern (which more people play than legacy), but even taking that into account, shouldn't mana drain still be selling higher when it's in the same set at mythic? Like many people looking for patterns to explain the numbers, I find the market both very fascinating and very confusing
I used to be a demigod, but now I'm an omnimage
Hmmmm...so it's just a strictly better counterspell for commander, and that's it?
I wonder why it got printed here instead of commander legends
Too many cards are banned in legacy unnecessary, but that's just my opinion and a topic probably best discussed elsewhere
EDIT: Still no regrets. locked in my copies at 40 cad and now they're already selling at 60
EDIT 2: Nice,... Mana Drain now at 65, ahead of Force of Negation at 60. That's what I'm talking about good mythics > good rares as it should be
I used to be a demigod, but now I'm an omnimage
I'm specifically referring to Tolarian Community College's booster box game where he opened less than $10 of value in his box.
pucatrade
big receipts
alpha mox emerald
beta time walk
4 goyfs received
3 liliana of the veil
4 karn liberated
3 force of will
4 grove of the burnwillows
snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation