Oh, we also want some way to dish out all our damage. Silverwing Squadron should fit the bill, and will allow us to take advantage of both sets of combats, so we should actually get more than 3 -> 3 -> (3 -> 3 -> (3 -> 3 -> 41 -> 7) -> 9) -> 9.
Oh, converting everything into Moraugs will also work. Silverwing Squadron doesn't gain more damage, I just forgot that Moraug worked on both main phases.
Not sure if Destiny Spinner works as a replacement for Redcap Melee, the blocking of creature countering is annoying.
Edit: Oh no, we don't want to animate our lands.
Edit: Hmm, I think if we have Orvar, the All-Form, we won't need to have Dance of the Manse. Not being able to exile Dance of the Manse cramps our start still further, but I think we can probably get started anyway.
We can also go back to Beledros Witherbloom, but I couldn't figure out how to get another layer out of turning life back into mana. If there were an X spell or maybe Adventure spell that could target a land at the cost of some mana, we could get many copies of a land for not too cheap, but I didn't see any spell like that. Another idea was to use something like Blood Aspirant to destroy creatures at the cost of red mana (Redcap Melee can be replaced by Rolling Regrowth), but if we use that to get many triggers of card draw, that's not worth a layer, since it's the same as get many copies of Into the Roil.
Woe strider is useful for simplifying broom stuff at the start as we don't need to wait for dance to animate crypt.
Oh, and in that case it doesn't need to be crypt; it can be Stonecoil Serpent; so +1 creature.
Also, looks like Nyxbloom ancient is safe and can replace kinnan, saving a blue for a mutate, as well as being useful in the opening.
Best start I can come up with is:
TT -> spellbook
Spellbook Ultimatum -> corridor monitor, thaumaturge, broom, purphoros, woe strider; thaumaturge copies broom
Spellbook filler spell + Ultimatum -> druid, nyxbloom, vadrok, ???, Gyruda; mill some cards then get ???
thaumaturge triggers, target druid. In response, tap druid for 30, then sac goat token; copy thaumabroom (27 mana). sac something (original broom?), copy 2 brooms (21 mana). sac something (original druid?), make 4 brooms (9 mana), sac something, make 3 brooms. (11 brooms total). resolve constellation to make original thaumaturge a druid. Tap for a lot of mana; make more brooms.
Play omen of the hunt from hand, do lots of broom stuff that can get ETBs. Gyruda gets all relevant even cmc creatures (e.g. xorn, robber, stormaller), monitor untaps spellbook; eventually make lots of xorns. Use robber for lots of treasures; tap 2 for lots of blue and white.
Dance for reflections.
Can mutate octo, start the stage, and then we have one more ultimatum to save for later (perhaps after a lot of teaches?)
(i think, though, this extra ultimatum is only worth one additional blue mana, regardless of how many times its copied; since we need mutates in between each one to recycle the island)
Edit: True polymorph can give us treasures; The trickster God's Heist is a suitable replacement.
The issue with Blisterspit Gremlin and other damage dealing creatures in place of shock is that one with lifelink may be given to the opponent, along with mana sources, which can gain them life breaking the layer.
Edit: The best option for the filler spell to exile to spellbook is probably not teach (as the next spell we need to cast is dance, not ultimatum); so it's probably a token maker to maximise druid mana. It looks like the best one is Mascot exhibition.
We could add Gadrak, the Crown-Scourge or Wandering Troubador, but their effects are dwarfed by the preceding Moraugs; Wandering Troubadour has the same effect as one combat phase, and Gadrak has less. So any card that could lead to at least one more landfill trigger during the first main phase, will have a much greater effect, since that will lead to a gajillion more triggers during the second main phase.
Oops, thought nyxbloom said nonland for some reason.
So my start becomes:
TT -> spellbook
ultimatum -> coridor, purphoros, broom, thaumaturge, woe strider. creatures: 5 (purph not a creature)
spellbook mascot exibiton + ultimatum -> druid, enchantment creature, vadrok, ??, gyruda -> ?? crestures: 14
response to constellation (targetting druid): tap (14 mana), sac (13 crearues inc 1 broom -> 11 mana 14 creatures inc 2 broom), sac (-> 5 mana 15 creatures inc 4 broom). resolve constellation (4 thaumaturge incl 3 broom)
nyx weaver from hand: 2 mana 16 creatures 4 constellation triggers. brooms will become druid; druid will become broom
tap druid (18 mana), resolve druid->broom trigger (4 brooms), sac (15 creatures), make 4 brooms (6 mana 8 brooms 19 creatures)
resolve broom->druid trigger, tap (25 mana 7 brooms), sac (18 creatures), make 7 brooms (4 mana 14 brooms 25 creatures)
resolve last 2 broom->druid triggers (12 brooms), tap one (29 mana), sac (24 creatures) get 12 broom triggers; resolve 9 (2 mana 33 creatures), tap druid (35 mana), resolve last 3 triggers (26 mana 24 brooms (+3 nonbroom (tapped) thaumaturges; also one broom is tapped) 36 creatures)
Should be good from there.
Omen from hand, do lots of broom stuff; eventually get lots of xorns, one kinnan, and a robber. Make lots of treasures; use 2 for UUWW; dance. One remaining U is good enough for a mutate to start the stage, and we can use a flumph for an additional 53 U; plenty to cover extra mutate costs and start a decent sized stage. Also have the extra spellbook activation for ultimatum available.
Corridor Monitor untaps Wizard's Spellbook, which we tap again and exile Genesis Ultimatum, casting it twice. The first cast gets us:
1 Protean Thaumaturge
1 Circle of the Dream Druid
1 Purphoros, Bronze-Blooded
2 Alseid of Life's Bounty
We get three constellation triggers from three enchantments entering.
Resolve 1st constellation trigger, turn 2 PT's into 2 Sorcerer's Broom (TSBs).
Respond by tapping a CoDD for 10 green mana.
Sacrifice an AoLB, 9 mana left.
Pay to copy 2 TSB, 3 mana, 4 TSB.
Resolve a second constellation trigger, 2 TSB, 1 TCoDD, 1 TAoLB (2 AoLB total)
Tap the TCoDD for 11 green mana, 14 total.
Sacrifice an AoLB, 13 mana left.
Pay to copy 2 TSB, 7 mana.
Resolve a third constellation trigger, turn 6 PT's into 2 TSB, 2 new TCoDD, 2 TAoLB
Sacrifice a TAoLB, 6 mana left
Pay to copy 2 TSB, 0 mana, 4 TSBs.
Tap a CoDD for 13 mana.
Sacrifice a TAoLB, 12 mana left
Pay to copy 4 TSB, 0 mana, 8 TSBs.
We now resolve the second GU, fetching us:
1 Alseid of Life's Bounty
4 Glasspool Mimic
We get 5 constellation triggers from 5 enchantments entering.
Tap a TCoDD for 16 mana.
Sacrifice an AoLB, 15 mana left.
Pay to copy 5 TSB, 0 mana, 13 TSB's, 15 PT's total.
Resolve the 1st constellation trigger, turn into 2 TSB's, 9 new TCoDD, 4 TAoLB (8 AoLBs total)
Tap a TCoDD for 20 mana.
Sacrifice an AoLB, 19 mana left.
Pay to copy 2 TSBs, 13 mana, 4 TSBs total.
Sacrifice 2nd AoLB, 12 mana left.
Pay to copy 4 TSBs, 0 mana, 8 TSBs total.
Tap 2nd TCoDD for 24 mana.
Sacrifice 3rd AolB, 23 mana left.
Pay to copy 7 TSBs, 2 mana, 15 TSBs total.
Tap 3rd TCoDD for 30 mana, 32 mana total.
Pay to copy 1 TSB, 29 mana, 16 TSBs total.
Sacrifice 4th AoLB, 28 mana left.
pay to copy 9 TSBS, 1 mana, 25 TSBs total.
Tap 4th TCoDD for 39 mana, 40 mana total.
Pay to copy 7 TSBs, 19 mana, 32 TSBs total.
Sacrifice 5th AoLB, 18 mana left.
Pay to copy 6 TSBs, 0 mana, 38 TSBs total.
Tap 5th TCoDD for 51 mana.
Pay to copy 17 TSBs, 0 mana, 55 TSBs total.
Tap 6th TCoDD for 68 mana.
Pay to copy 9 TSBs, 41 mana, 64 TSBs total.
Sacrifice 6th AoLB, 40 mana left.
Pay to copy 13 TSBs, 1 mana, 77 TSBs total.
Tap 7th TCoDD for 89 mana, 90 total.
Pay to copy 30 TSBs, 0 mana, 107 TSBs total.
Tap 8th TCoDD for 119 mana.
Pay to copy 21 TSBs, 56 mana, 128 TSBs total.
Sacrifice 7th AoLB, 55 mana left.
Pay to copy 18 TSBs, 1 mana, 146 TSBs total.
Tap 9th TCoDD for 157 mana, 158 total.
Pay to copy 52 TSBs, 2 mana, 198 TSBs.
Finish with 208 PT's.
Resolve the 2nd constellation trigger, turn into 2 TSBs, 66 TAoLBs, 140 new TCoDDs. Each AoLB can double the number of TSB's, for a potential of 2^66 if we want to keep a TAoLB around. Each TCoDD gives us roughly 4/3 the mana of the previous one, so 140 more give us around 1.95 * 10^20 mana, allowing us to copy about 6.5 * 10^19 TSB's, or around 2^65.8 TSBs.
A third constellation trigger will then take us to more than 2^2^64 TSBs, a fourth to 2^2^2^64, and a fifth to 2^2^2^2^64. Two more Nyx Heralds from our hand will take us to more than 2^2^2^2^2^2^64 > 2^^9 TSBs, and then interrupting a sacrifice trigger by playing Omen of the Hunt will allow us to create more than 2^^9 enchantment creatures, taking us to more than 2^^(2^^9) TSBs, which we can turn into Xorns and activate Vault Robber to gain more than 2^^(2^^9) treasure tokens.
We can cast Dance of the Manse to bring Reflections of Littjara onto the battlefield as a 4/4 creature. This triggers are Protean Thaumaturges, and we can convert them to whatever we want, including many Reflections. We made sure to create one copy of Corridor Monitor, so we can untap or Wizard's Spellbook and use it again. Another use of Wizard's Spellbook exiles Dance of the Manse, and fetches us 10 more cards, which can include Into the Roil, Storm Gate Stormcaller, Vadrox, Apex of Thunder, etc. Mutating Vadrox will give us a gajillion cast from graveyard triggers, and Into the Roil can fetch the rest of our library, so we are good to go.
We have 45 expendable creatures now, so we get to more than 3 -> 3 -> 46 -> 7 TSB's after exiling all our expendable creatures. Two sets of combats take us to more than 3 -> 3 -> (3 -> 3 -> (3 -> 3 -> 46 -> 7) -> 9 -> 9.
Ah, good point about constellation triggers... I can rework the numbers, but certainly we can get started with your line, and getting a second Ultimatum should just be better.
Purphoros, Bronze-Blooded triggers the Thaumaturges, and we turn them into copies of Sorcerer's Broom (TSBs).
Corridor Monitor untaps Wizard's Spellbook, which we tap again and exile Genesis Ultimatum, casting it twice. The first cast gets us:
1 Xorn
1 Vault Robber
1 Circle of Dreams Druid
1 Alseid of Life's Bounty
1 Woe Strider
We get one constellation trigger from AoLB entering.
Respond by tapping a CoDD for 10 green mana.
Sacrifice the AoLB, 10 mana left.
Pay to copy 2 TSB, 4 mana, 4 TSB.
Resolve the constellation trigger, turn 2 TSB into 2 TCoDD
Tap the TCoDD for 11 green mana, 15 total.
Sacrifice the Sorcerer's Broom, 15 mana left.
Pay to copy 2 TSB, 9 mana.
Tap the 2nd TCoDD for 12 mana, 21 total.
Sacrifice the CoDD.
Pay to copy 4 TSB, 9 mana, 8 TSB
Sacrifice a TCoDD.
Pay to copy 3 TSB, 0 mana, 11 TSB.
We now resolve the second GU, fetching us:
1 Alseid of Life's Bounty
4 Gyruda, Doom of Depths
We get 5 enchantment creatures, entering one at a time.
Resolve the 1st constellation trigger, turn 12 TSB's into 2 TSBs, 10 untapped TCoDDs.
Tap a TCoDD for 17 mana.
Sacrifice the AoLB.
Pay to copy 2 TSBs, 11 mana, 4 TSBs total.
Sacrifice tapped TCoDD.
Pay to copy 3 TSBs, 2 mana, 7 TSBs total.
Tap second TCoDD for 20 mana, 22 total.
Pay to copy 1 TSB, 19 mana, 8 TSBs.
Sacrifice tapped TCoDD.
Pay to copy 6 TSBs, 1 mana, 14 TSBs.
Tap 3rd TCoDD for 26 mana, 27 total.
Pay to copy 2 TSBs, 21 mana, 16 TSBs.
Sacrifced 3rd TCoDD.
Pay to copy 7 TSBs, 0 mana, 23 TSBs.
Tap 4th TCoDD for 34 mana, 34 total.
Pay to copy 9 TSBs, 7 mana, 32 TSBs.
Sacrifice 4th TCoDD.
Pay to copy 2 TSBs, 1 mana, 34 TSBs.
Tap 5th TCoDD for 44 mana, 45 total.
Pay to copy 15 TSBs, 0 mana, 49 TSBs.
Tap 6th TCoDD for 59 mana, 59 total.
Pay to copy 15 TSBs, 14 mana, 64 TSBs.
Sacrifice 5th TCoDD.
Pay to copy 4 TSBs, 2 mana, 68 TSBs.
Tap 7th TCoDD for 77 mana, 79 total.
Pay to copy 26 TSBs, 1 mana, 94 TSBs.
Tap 8th TCoDD for 103 mana, 104 total.
Pay to copy 34 TSBs, 1 mana, 128 TSBs.
Tap 9th TCoDD for 137 mana, 138 total.
Sacrifice 6th TCoDD.
Pay to copy 46 TSBs, 0 mana, 174 TSBs.
Tap 10th TCoDD for 183 mana, 183 total.
Pay to copy 61 TSBs, 0 mana, 235 TSBs.
Finish with 239 PT's. (4 tapped)
Resolve the first Gyruda, fetching an enchantment creature and getting another constellation trigger. Resolve the 2nd constellation trigger, turn into 4 TSBs, 235 untapped TCoDDs. Each TCoDD gives us roughly 4/3 the mana of the previous one, so 235 more give us around 2.24 * 10^32 mana, allowing us to copy about 7.5 * 10^31 TSB's, or around 2^105.9 TSBs.
A third constellation trigger will then take us to more than 2^2^104 TSBs, a fourth to 2^2^2^104, and a fifth to 2^2^2^2^104. Two more Nyx Heralds from our hand will take us to more than 2^2^2^2^2^2^104 > 2^^9 TSBs, and then interrupting a sacrifice trigger by playing Omen of the Hunt will allow us to create more than 2^^9 enchantment creatures, taking us to more than 2^^(2^^9) TSBs, which we can turn into Xorns and activate Vault Robber to gain more than 2^^(2^^9) treasure tokens.
We can cast Dance of the Manse to bring Reflections of Littjara onto the battlefield as a 4/4 creature. This triggers are Protean Thaumaturges, and we can convert them to whatever we want, including many Reflections. We made sure to create one copy of Corridor Monitor, so we can untap or Wizard's Spellbook and use it again. Another use of Wizard's Spellbook exiles Dance of the Manse, and fetches us 10 more cards, which can include Into the Roil, Storm Gate Stormcaller, Vadrox, Apex of Thunder, etc. Mutating Vadrox will give us a gajillion cast from graveyard triggers, and Into the Roil can fetch the rest of our library, so we are good to go.
We have 45 expendable creatures now, so we get to more than 3 -> 3 -> 46 -> 7 TSB's after exiling all our expendable creatures. Two sets of combats take us to more than 3 -> 3 -> (3 -> 3 -> (3 -> 3 -> 46 -> 7) -> 9) -> 9.
Wow great work guys, Dual strike is a nice patch to prevent ultimatum infinites.
I'm pretty sure we don't have any other unintentional infinites.
Earth cult elemental works nicely. While it does change the stage loop a little, its not a problem.
Minor optimizations:
Cut Omen of the hunt for a red source (Ardent Electromancer?) and use Purphoros, Bronze-Blooded's sneak attack ability to make flash enchantments. There are more than enough legal red enchantment creatures, most of which are safe. (though I guess this doesn't actually help the creature count as we can't exile the last hero of the nyxborn without turning off thaumabroom... , still more flash enchantments makes thaumabrooming better)
Kazuul's Fury should be akoum warrior as an extra creature to exile and get more combats, then we can kill them with combat damage in the final combat. (Rockslide Sorcerer can be used for a source of noncombat damage that our opponent can't use)
I'm fairly certain that there's not any way to get another stage in here. Thaumabroom is already very nearly infinite, so there's no room 'above' the U stage on the stack. And 'below' the U stage we can cast any non x spell for free, and we have pretty limited options there. And I haven't even found another possible stage combo which all adds up to my conclusion: we only get this one stage, so we want to optimize our layers.
However, even our current layer setup has holes, for example, Black mana is currently unused. But the options for it are pretty limited. And I don't see anything better than the ones we have...
Yeah, I feel like there's an opportunity for more layers - not only is there black mana, it doesn't look like red mana and green mana are fundamental to the stage, so we should keep our eyes open to those possibilities as well. (I guess we do have snow mana also.) Beledros Witherbloom gives us a way to turn life into a particular color of mana - we just need a pathway that actually adds layers.
I noticed that we could free ourselves from devotion to black, so that Nyx Lotus generates all colors of mana besides black. Unfortunately, Dance of the Manse allows us to copy it freely with Thaumaturges.
Edit: Oh, Rockslide Sorceror can still gain life for ourselves too easily.
Journey to the oracle doesn't work with the current stage; as octopi alone can shuffle the island, sac it, and trigger jadzi. Could we somehow require a kicked roil in order to sac the island?
The mythic MDFC lands are another way to turn life into mana; though the blue one isn't safe, and they only work at sorcery speed.
For adding a red source we'd need to check carefully for any loops arising from casting trickeries from hand. I believe with only one trickery and one qcommand in the deck then it's safe, though I'm not fully sure.
Brazen dwarf still doesn't work since we can give the opponent a dwarf and a broom, let them sac something, then in response we steal that broom and play an enchantment to turn it into earth cult elemental; the result being that they will create an ECE and thus trigger their dwarf.
Hmmm... we could switch from white to red by using Brash Taunter, and paying a red to fight an opponent's creature with lifelink. This loses a layer due to not getting copies. We could then go from life to white mana via Beledros Witherbloom, then use white mana to cast Niko Aris for Shard tokens, which can be used selectively to create a stage. This just adds one layer, so we wind up even, and we've mooted red mana in the process. Certainly not better, just throwing out ideas.
Spitfire Lagac doesn't work either as the opponent has lands and we can give them hasty herbalists to put the hand into play, sac them to earth cult elemental, and draw them with Skemfar Avenger. I think that just leaves Drannith Stinger?
Edit: Oh and also casting trickery from hand is perfectly safe, as in order to get it back in hand we'd need to draw it, which needs an expensive resource.
Instead of Niko, we could cast Usher to Safety from our hand, getting many copies, allowing to repeatedly bounce the Island to our hand and forming a stage. Again, we wind up even, no improvement. We could also go from white to some other color mana... like red and use Brash Taunter, but that's just the layers rearranged.
(btw, that rule is inconsistently written as though it's a consequence of the "we choose all randomness" rule; however normally when we're choosing randomness we still have to consider every possible outcome besides the one chosen in determining deck legality. It should probably just be a part of the rule on what the opponent's deck is: "The opponent's deck is 60 basic lands *of our choice*". Or even not be a rule at all, but that's slightly awkward for this situation)
Edit: witherbloom just converts life to blue mana directly in a way that the opponent can't draw with; no need for soulreaper of mogis and using that rule
Edit: idea I had that doesn't quite work was to replace Into the roil for Multiple Choice + Stern Dismisal; making it probably safe to include Orvar the all form. However; then there's nothing that can safely target lands that can't also target treasures.
Yeah, originally the rule was just "the opponent's deck is 60 basic islands." but once wastes were printed that was the obvious choice for the vintage deck. Now in standard not only is waste not legal but all of the snow basics are. I'm fine with rewording the rule in that way. It is a bit of a cheat the way it is now.
Multiple choice is a sorcery, so we cant cast it with x>0 at instant speed.
Use a snow land that enters tapped and taps for blue. Animate it with Avalanche caller to make copies of it with thaumabrooms. Then witherbloom makes a lot of blue mana for one life payment.
If we could switch Dance of the Manse for Orvar, the All-Form, it would be helpful even without being able to safely target lands; it would be a creature, and we could potentially use some cards that would otherwise be eliminated due to Thaumaturge copying (like Nyx Lotus).
tap the land, X floating
mutate, X-1
kill the land with redcap melee
reshuffle with Qcommand
counter the octo
activate investigator X-2
roll 11, say
get draw triggers
draw island
herbalist it in
tap the land X-1 floating
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Edit: So, updated deck list:
1 Lorehold campus
2 Island
3 Tormod's Crypt
4 Tibalt's trickery
5 Wizard's Spellbook
6 Genesis Ultimatum
7 Genesis Ultimatum
8 Teach By Example
9 Corridor Monitor
10 Dance of the manse
11 Vault Robber
Engine/utility:
12 Circle of dreams druid
13 Sorcerer's Broom
14 Protean Thaumaturge
15 Scaled Herbalist
16 Purphoros, Bronze-Blooded
17 Reflections of littjara
18 Sea Gate Stormcaller
19 Sea-Dasher Octopus
20 Omen of the Hunt
21 Vadrok, Apex of Thunder
22 Into the roil
23 Destiny Spinner
24 Quandrix command
Layers:
25 Skemfar Avenger
26 Honor Troll
27 Chandra's Incinerator
28 Duskfang Mentor
29 Shock
30 Clackbridge Troll
31 Heliod's Intervention
32 True Polymorph
33 Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy
34 Kargan Intimidator
36 Hama Pashar, Ruin Seeker
37 Planar Ally
38 Moraug, Fury of Akoum
Optimization:
4 Alseid of Life's Bounty
4 Glasspool Mimic
1 Destiny Spinner
13 other creatures
Not sure if Destiny Spinner works as a replacement for Redcap Melee, the blocking of creature countering is annoying.
Edit: Oh no, we don't want to animate our lands.
Edit: Hmm, I think if we have Orvar, the All-Form, we won't need to have Dance of the Manse. Not being able to exile Dance of the Manse cramps our start still further, but I think we can probably get started anyway.
Edit: We can also replace Shock with Blisterfang Gremlin.
We can also go back to Beledros Witherbloom, but I couldn't figure out how to get another layer out of turning life back into mana. If there were an X spell or maybe Adventure spell that could target a land at the cost of some mana, we could get many copies of a land for not too cheap, but I didn't see any spell like that. Another idea was to use something like Blood Aspirant to destroy creatures at the cost of red mana (Redcap Melee can be replaced by Rolling Regrowth), but if we use that to get many triggers of card draw, that's not worth a layer, since it's the same as get many copies of Into the Roil.
Woe strider is useful for simplifying broom stuff at the start as we don't need to wait for dance to animate crypt.
Oh, and in that case it doesn't need to be crypt; it can be Stonecoil Serpent; so +1 creature.
Also, looks like Nyxbloom ancient is safe and can replace kinnan, saving a blue for a mutate, as well as being useful in the opening.
Best start I can come up with is:
TT -> spellbook
Spellbook Ultimatum -> corridor monitor, thaumaturge, broom, purphoros, woe strider; thaumaturge copies broom
Spellbook filler spell + Ultimatum -> druid, nyxbloom, vadrok, ???, Gyruda; mill some cards then get ???
thaumaturge triggers, target druid. In response, tap druid for 30, then sac goat token; copy thaumabroom (27 mana). sac something (original broom?), copy 2 brooms (21 mana). sac something (original druid?), make 4 brooms (9 mana), sac something, make 3 brooms. (11 brooms total). resolve constellation to make original thaumaturge a druid. Tap for a lot of mana; make more brooms.
Play omen of the hunt from hand, do lots of broom stuff that can get ETBs. Gyruda gets all relevant even cmc creatures (e.g. xorn, robber, stormaller), monitor untaps spellbook; eventually make lots of xorns. Use robber for lots of treasures; tap 2 for lots of blue and white.
Dance for reflections.
Can mutate octo, start the stage, and then we have one more ultimatum to save for later (perhaps after a lot of teaches?)
(i think, though, this extra ultimatum is only worth one additional blue mana, regardless of how many times its copied; since we need mutates in between each one to recycle the island)
Edit: Earth-cult elemental is a creature-based replacement for redcap melee
Edit: True polymorph can give us treasures; The trickster God's Heist is a suitable replacement.
The issue with Blisterspit Gremlin and other damage dealing creatures in place of shock is that one with lifelink may be given to the opponent, along with mana sources, which can gain them life breaking the layer.
Edit: The best option for the filler spell to exile to spellbook is probably not teach (as the next spell we need to cast is dance, not ultimatum); so it's probably a token maker to maximise druid mana. It looks like the best one is Mascot exhibition.
Edit: Lorehold Campus + Shock -> Kazuul's Fury saves a card slot. (also an end-step finisher. Could make Gadrak, the Crown-Scourge relevant?).
Edit: Or Wandering Troubadour
We could add Gadrak, the Crown-Scourge or Wandering Troubador, but their effects are dwarfed by the preceding Moraugs; Wandering Troubadour has the same effect as one combat phase, and Gadrak has less. So any card that could lead to at least one more landfill trigger during the first main phase, will have a much greater effect, since that will lead to a gajillion more triggers during the second main phase.
The other stuff is great!
Updated deck:
1 Kazuul's Fury
2 Island
3 Stonecoil Serpent
4 Tibalt's trickery
5 Wizard's Spellbook
6 Genesis Ultimatum
7 Genesis Ultimatum
8 Teach By Example
9 Corridor Monitor
10 Dance of the manse
11 Vault Robber
Engine/utility:
12 Circle of dreams druid
13 Sorcerer's Broom
14 Protean Thaumaturge
15 Scaled Herbalist
16 Purphoros, Bronze-Blooded
17 Reflections of littjara
18 Sea Gate Stormcaller
19 Sea-Dasher Octopus
20 Omen of the Hunt
21 Vadrok, Apex of Thunder
22 Into the roil
23 Earth-Cult Elemental
24 Quandrix command
Layers:
25 Skemfar Avenger
26 Honor Troll
27 Chandra's Incinerator
28 Duskfang Mentor
29 Clackbridge Troll
30 Heliod's Intervention
31 The Trickster-God's Heist
32 Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy
33 Kargan Intimidator
35 Hama Pashar, Ruin Seeker
36 Planar Ally
37 Moraug, Fury of Akoum
Expendable Creatures:
4 Alseid of Life's Bounty
4 Glasspool Mimic
2 Nyx Herald
13 other creatures
So my start becomes:
TT -> spellbook
ultimatum -> coridor, purphoros, broom, thaumaturge, woe strider. creatures: 5 (purph not a creature)
spellbook mascot exibiton + ultimatum -> druid, enchantment creature, vadrok, ??, gyruda -> ?? crestures: 14
response to constellation (targetting druid): tap (14 mana), sac (13 crearues inc 1 broom -> 11 mana 14 creatures inc 2 broom), sac (-> 5 mana 15 creatures inc 4 broom). resolve constellation (4 thaumaturge incl 3 broom)
nyx weaver from hand: 2 mana 16 creatures 4 constellation triggers. brooms will become druid; druid will become broom
tap druid (18 mana), resolve druid->broom trigger (4 brooms), sac (15 creatures), make 4 brooms (6 mana 8 brooms 19 creatures)
resolve broom->druid trigger, tap (25 mana 7 brooms), sac (18 creatures), make 7 brooms (4 mana 14 brooms 25 creatures)
resolve last 2 broom->druid triggers (12 brooms), tap one (29 mana), sac (24 creatures) get 12 broom triggers; resolve 9 (2 mana 33 creatures), tap druid (35 mana), resolve last 3 triggers (26 mana 24 brooms (+3 nonbroom (tapped) thaumaturges; also one broom is tapped) 36 creatures)
Should be good from there.
Omen from hand, do lots of broom stuff; eventually get lots of xorns, one kinnan, and a robber. Make lots of treasures; use 2 for UUWW; dance. One remaining U is good enough for a mutate to start the stage, and we can use a flumph for an additional 53 U; plenty to cover extra mutate costs and start a decent sized stage. Also have the extra spellbook activation for ultimatum available.
1 Kazuul's Cliffs
2 Island
3 Tormod's Crypt
4 Tibalt's Trickery
5 Omen of the Hunt
6 Dance of the Manse
7 Nyx Herald
8 Nyx Herald
Mill:
Genesis Ultimatum
Genesis Ultimatum
Reflections of Littjara
Tibalt's Trickery mills the above and fetches Wizard's Spellbook to cast. We exile Genesis Ultimatum and fetch:
1 Corridor Monitor
1 Vault Robber
1 Xorn
1 Sorcerer's Broom
1 Protean Thaumaturge
Corridor Monitor untaps Wizard's Spellbook, which we tap again and exile Genesis Ultimatum, casting it twice. The first cast gets us:
1 Protean Thaumaturge
1 Circle of the Dream Druid
1 Purphoros, Bronze-Blooded
2 Alseid of Life's Bounty
We get three constellation triggers from three enchantments entering.
Resolve 1st constellation trigger, turn 2 PT's into 2 Sorcerer's Broom (TSBs).
Respond by tapping a CoDD for 10 green mana.
Sacrifice an AoLB, 9 mana left.
Pay to copy 2 TSB, 3 mana, 4 TSB.
Resolve a second constellation trigger, 2 TSB, 1 TCoDD, 1 TAoLB (2 AoLB total)
Tap the TCoDD for 11 green mana, 14 total.
Sacrifice an AoLB, 13 mana left.
Pay to copy 2 TSB, 7 mana.
Resolve a third constellation trigger, turn 6 PT's into 2 TSB, 2 new TCoDD, 2 TAoLB
Sacrifice a TAoLB, 6 mana left
Pay to copy 2 TSB, 0 mana, 4 TSBs.
Tap a CoDD for 13 mana.
Sacrifice a TAoLB, 12 mana left
Pay to copy 4 TSB, 0 mana, 8 TSBs.
We now resolve the second GU, fetching us:
1 Alseid of Life's Bounty
4 Glasspool Mimic
We get 5 constellation triggers from 5 enchantments entering.
Tap a TCoDD for 16 mana.
Sacrifice an AoLB, 15 mana left.
Pay to copy 5 TSB, 0 mana, 13 TSB's, 15 PT's total.
Resolve the 1st constellation trigger, turn into 2 TSB's, 9 new TCoDD, 4 TAoLB (8 AoLBs total)
Tap a TCoDD for 20 mana.
Sacrifice an AoLB, 19 mana left.
Pay to copy 2 TSBs, 13 mana, 4 TSBs total.
Sacrifice 2nd AoLB, 12 mana left.
Pay to copy 4 TSBs, 0 mana, 8 TSBs total.
Tap 2nd TCoDD for 24 mana.
Sacrifice 3rd AolB, 23 mana left.
Pay to copy 7 TSBs, 2 mana, 15 TSBs total.
Tap 3rd TCoDD for 30 mana, 32 mana total.
Pay to copy 1 TSB, 29 mana, 16 TSBs total.
Sacrifice 4th AoLB, 28 mana left.
pay to copy 9 TSBS, 1 mana, 25 TSBs total.
Tap 4th TCoDD for 39 mana, 40 mana total.
Pay to copy 7 TSBs, 19 mana, 32 TSBs total.
Sacrifice 5th AoLB, 18 mana left.
Pay to copy 6 TSBs, 0 mana, 38 TSBs total.
Tap 5th TCoDD for 51 mana.
Pay to copy 17 TSBs, 0 mana, 55 TSBs total.
Tap 6th TCoDD for 68 mana.
Pay to copy 9 TSBs, 41 mana, 64 TSBs total.
Sacrifice 6th AoLB, 40 mana left.
Pay to copy 13 TSBs, 1 mana, 77 TSBs total.
Tap 7th TCoDD for 89 mana, 90 total.
Pay to copy 30 TSBs, 0 mana, 107 TSBs total.
Tap 8th TCoDD for 119 mana.
Pay to copy 21 TSBs, 56 mana, 128 TSBs total.
Sacrifice 7th AoLB, 55 mana left.
Pay to copy 18 TSBs, 1 mana, 146 TSBs total.
Tap 9th TCoDD for 157 mana, 158 total.
Pay to copy 52 TSBs, 2 mana, 198 TSBs.
Finish with 208 PT's.
Resolve the 2nd constellation trigger, turn into 2 TSBs, 66 TAoLBs, 140 new TCoDDs. Each AoLB can double the number of TSB's, for a potential of 2^66 if we want to keep a TAoLB around. Each TCoDD gives us roughly 4/3 the mana of the previous one, so 140 more give us around 1.95 * 10^20 mana, allowing us to copy about 6.5 * 10^19 TSB's, or around 2^65.8 TSBs.
A third constellation trigger will then take us to more than 2^2^64 TSBs, a fourth to 2^2^2^64, and a fifth to 2^2^2^2^64. Two more Nyx Heralds from our hand will take us to more than 2^2^2^2^2^2^64 > 2^^9 TSBs, and then interrupting a sacrifice trigger by playing Omen of the Hunt will allow us to create more than 2^^9 enchantment creatures, taking us to more than 2^^(2^^9) TSBs, which we can turn into Xorns and activate Vault Robber to gain more than 2^^(2^^9) treasure tokens.
We can cast Dance of the Manse to bring Reflections of Littjara onto the battlefield as a 4/4 creature. This triggers are Protean Thaumaturges, and we can convert them to whatever we want, including many Reflections. We made sure to create one copy of Corridor Monitor, so we can untap or Wizard's Spellbook and use it again. Another use of Wizard's Spellbook exiles Dance of the Manse, and fetches us 10 more cards, which can include Into the Roil, Storm Gate Stormcaller, Vadrox, Apex of Thunder, etc. Mutating Vadrox will give us a gajillion cast from graveyard triggers, and Into the Roil can fetch the rest of our library, so we are good to go.
We have 45 expendable creatures now, so we get to more than 3 -> 3 -> 46 -> 7 TSB's after exiling all our expendable creatures. Two sets of combats take us to more than 3 -> 3 -> (3 -> 3 -> (3 -> 3 -> 46 -> 7) -> 9 -> 9.
Also, each constellation trigger only affects the thaumaturges that were in play at the time the enchantment entered the battlefield
Ah, good point about constellation triggers... I can rework the numbers, but certainly we can get started with your line, and getting a second Ultimatum should just be better.
1 Kazuul's Cliffs
2 Island
3 Tormod's Crypt
4 Tibalt's Trickery
5 Omen of the Hunt
6 Dance of the Manse
7 Nyx Herald
8 Nyx Herald
Mill:
Genesis Ultimatum
Genesis Ultimatum
Reflections of Littjara
Tibalt's Trickery mills the above and fetches Wizard's Spellbook to cast. We exile Genesis Ultimatum and fetch:
1 Corridor Monitor
1 Purphoros, Bronze-Blooded
1 Sorcerer's Broom
2 Protean Thaumaturge
Purphoros, Bronze-Blooded triggers the Thaumaturges, and we turn them into copies of Sorcerer's Broom (TSBs).
Corridor Monitor untaps Wizard's Spellbook, which we tap again and exile Genesis Ultimatum, casting it twice. The first cast gets us:
1 Xorn
1 Vault Robber
1 Circle of Dreams Druid
1 Alseid of Life's Bounty
1 Woe Strider
We get one constellation trigger from AoLB entering.
Respond by tapping a CoDD for 10 green mana.
Sacrifice the AoLB, 10 mana left.
Pay to copy 2 TSB, 4 mana, 4 TSB.
Resolve the constellation trigger, turn 2 TSB into 2 TCoDD
Tap the TCoDD for 11 green mana, 15 total.
Sacrifice the Sorcerer's Broom, 15 mana left.
Pay to copy 2 TSB, 9 mana.
Tap the 2nd TCoDD for 12 mana, 21 total.
Sacrifice the CoDD.
Pay to copy 4 TSB, 9 mana, 8 TSB
Sacrifice a TCoDD.
Pay to copy 3 TSB, 0 mana, 11 TSB.
We now resolve the second GU, fetching us:
1 Alseid of Life's Bounty
4 Gyruda, Doom of Depths
We get 5 enchantment creatures, entering one at a time.
Resolve the 1st constellation trigger, turn 12 TSB's into 2 TSBs, 10 untapped TCoDDs.
Tap a TCoDD for 17 mana.
Sacrifice the AoLB.
Pay to copy 2 TSBs, 11 mana, 4 TSBs total.
Sacrifice tapped TCoDD.
Pay to copy 3 TSBs, 2 mana, 7 TSBs total.
Tap second TCoDD for 20 mana, 22 total.
Pay to copy 1 TSB, 19 mana, 8 TSBs.
Sacrifice tapped TCoDD.
Pay to copy 6 TSBs, 1 mana, 14 TSBs.
Tap 3rd TCoDD for 26 mana, 27 total.
Pay to copy 2 TSBs, 21 mana, 16 TSBs.
Sacrifced 3rd TCoDD.
Pay to copy 7 TSBs, 0 mana, 23 TSBs.
Tap 4th TCoDD for 34 mana, 34 total.
Pay to copy 9 TSBs, 7 mana, 32 TSBs.
Sacrifice 4th TCoDD.
Pay to copy 2 TSBs, 1 mana, 34 TSBs.
Tap 5th TCoDD for 44 mana, 45 total.
Pay to copy 15 TSBs, 0 mana, 49 TSBs.
Tap 6th TCoDD for 59 mana, 59 total.
Pay to copy 15 TSBs, 14 mana, 64 TSBs.
Sacrifice 5th TCoDD.
Pay to copy 4 TSBs, 2 mana, 68 TSBs.
Tap 7th TCoDD for 77 mana, 79 total.
Pay to copy 26 TSBs, 1 mana, 94 TSBs.
Tap 8th TCoDD for 103 mana, 104 total.
Pay to copy 34 TSBs, 1 mana, 128 TSBs.
Tap 9th TCoDD for 137 mana, 138 total.
Sacrifice 6th TCoDD.
Pay to copy 46 TSBs, 0 mana, 174 TSBs.
Tap 10th TCoDD for 183 mana, 183 total.
Pay to copy 61 TSBs, 0 mana, 235 TSBs.
Finish with 239 PT's. (4 tapped)
Resolve the first Gyruda, fetching an enchantment creature and getting another constellation trigger. Resolve the 2nd constellation trigger, turn into 4 TSBs, 235 untapped TCoDDs. Each TCoDD gives us roughly 4/3 the mana of the previous one, so 235 more give us around 2.24 * 10^32 mana, allowing us to copy about 7.5 * 10^31 TSB's, or around 2^105.9 TSBs.
A third constellation trigger will then take us to more than 2^2^104 TSBs, a fourth to 2^2^2^104, and a fifth to 2^2^2^2^104. Two more Nyx Heralds from our hand will take us to more than 2^2^2^2^2^2^104 > 2^^9 TSBs, and then interrupting a sacrifice trigger by playing Omen of the Hunt will allow us to create more than 2^^9 enchantment creatures, taking us to more than 2^^(2^^9) TSBs, which we can turn into Xorns and activate Vault Robber to gain more than 2^^(2^^9) treasure tokens.
We can cast Dance of the Manse to bring Reflections of Littjara onto the battlefield as a 4/4 creature. This triggers are Protean Thaumaturges, and we can convert them to whatever we want, including many Reflections. We made sure to create one copy of Corridor Monitor, so we can untap or Wizard's Spellbook and use it again. Another use of Wizard's Spellbook exiles Dance of the Manse, and fetches us 10 more cards, which can include Into the Roil, Storm Gate Stormcaller, Vadrox, Apex of Thunder, etc. Mutating Vadrox will give us a gajillion cast from graveyard triggers, and Into the Roil can fetch the rest of our library, so we are good to go.
We have 45 expendable creatures now, so we get to more than 3 -> 3 -> 46 -> 7 TSB's after exiling all our expendable creatures. Two sets of combats take us to more than 3 -> 3 -> (3 -> 3 -> (3 -> 3 -> 46 -> 7) -> 9) -> 9.
I'm pretty sure we don't have any other unintentional infinites.
Earth cult elemental works nicely. While it does change the stage loop a little, its not a problem.
Minor optimizations:
Cut Omen of the hunt for a red source (Ardent Electromancer?) and use Purphoros, Bronze-Blooded's sneak attack ability to make flash enchantments. There are more than enough legal red enchantment creatures, most of which are safe. (though I guess this doesn't actually help the creature count as we can't exile the last hero of the nyxborn without turning off thaumabroom... , still more flash enchantments makes thaumabrooming better)
Kazuul's Fury should be akoum warrior as an extra creature to exile and get more combats, then we can kill them with combat damage in the final combat. (Rockslide Sorcerer can be used for a source of noncombat damage that our opponent can't use)
I'm fairly certain that there's not any way to get another stage in here. Thaumabroom is already very nearly infinite, so there's no room 'above' the U stage on the stack. And 'below' the U stage we can cast any non x spell for free, and we have pretty limited options there. And I haven't even found another possible stage combo which all adds up to my conclusion: we only get this one stage, so we want to optimize our layers.
However, even our current layer setup has holes, for example, Black mana is currently unused. But the options for it are pretty limited. And I don't see anything better than the ones we have...
Yeah, I feel like there's an opportunity for more layers - not only is there black mana, it doesn't look like red mana and green mana are fundamental to the stage, so we should keep our eyes open to those possibilities as well. (I guess we do have snow mana also.) Beledros Witherbloom gives us a way to turn life into a particular color of mana - we just need a pathway that actually adds layers.
I noticed that we could free ourselves from devotion to black, so that Nyx Lotus generates all colors of mana besides black. Unfortunately, Dance of the Manse allows us to copy it freely with Thaumaturges.
Edit: Oh, Rockslide Sorceror can still gain life for ourselves too easily.
Edit: Hmm, I think Brazen Dwarf is okay.
Edit: Can the stage work with Journey to the Oracle rather than Scaled Herbalist? I'm looking to take out haste again, so that we can use Kenrith, the Returned King to give all creatures haste, including a bunch of Murasa Rootgrazers to generate a bunch of blue mana.
The mythic MDFC lands are another way to turn life into mana; though the blue one isn't safe, and they only work at sorcery speed.
For adding a red source we'd need to check carefully for any loops arising from casting trickeries from hand. I believe with only one trickery and one qcommand in the deck then it's safe, though I'm not fully sure.
Brazen dwarf still doesn't work since we can give the opponent a dwarf and a broom, let them sac something, then in response we steal that broom and play an enchantment to turn it into earth cult elemental; the result being that they will create an ECE and thus trigger their dwarf.
Spitfire Lagac should work though.
Edit: Oh and also casting trickery from hand is perfectly safe, as in order to get it back in hand we'd need to draw it, which needs an expensive resource.
With the rule on being able to choose what lands the opponent has, we could assume they have no black; and then use Soulreaper of mogis for draw making Spitfire Lagac safe. We can then use Beledros witherbloom for black along with Blackbloom rogue.
(btw, that rule is inconsistently written as though it's a consequence of the "we choose all randomness" rule; however normally when we're choosing randomness we still have to consider every possible outcome besides the one chosen in determining deck legality. It should probably just be a part of the rule on what the opponent's deck is: "The opponent's deck is 60 basic lands *of our choice*". Or even not be a rule at all, but that's slightly awkward for this situation)
Edit: witherbloom just converts life to blue mana directly in a way that the opponent can't draw with; no need for soulreaper of mogis and using that rule
Edit: idea I had that doesn't quite work was to replace Into the roil for Multiple Choice + Stern Dismisal; making it probably safe to include Orvar the all form. However; then there's nothing that can safely target lands that can't also target treasures.
Multiple choice is a sorcery, so we cant cast it with x>0 at instant speed.
Use a snow land that enters tapped and taps for blue. Animate it with Avalanche caller to make copies of it with thaumabrooms. Then witherbloom makes a lot of blue mana for one life payment.
Would Arcane investigator + Farideh, devil's chosen work as a replacement for roil to form a stage and allow orvar to be included? (of course also cutting earth-cult elemental)
tap the land, X floating
mutate, X-1
kill the land with redcap melee
reshuffle with Qcommand
counter the octo
activate investigator X-2
roll 11, say
get draw triggers
draw island
herbalist it in
tap the land X-1 floating