I'm not a lawyer, but apparently a CHUNK of the box toppers advertised for preorder purposes as 'rares and mythics' are actually not. That plus the VIP boosters being actual just gambling on the face of it with no argument to be made against it.....am i crazy, or is Wizards REALLY opening themselves to some heavy duty lawsuits with this product in general? Am i missing something, or would it be SUPER easy to take them to court?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Project Booster Fun makes it less fun to open a booster.
If they had said they were rare or mythic then possibly but because they didn't say that they said "Two non-foil borderless showcase box topper cards included in each booster box" there is nothing here. Even if they had said this there would be no case as long as the box toppers had the rare or mythic symbol regardless of the previous printings rarity. So the Tron lands are considered rare as a box topper. On many levels there is no lawsuit here.
If it was a no argument gambling then yes but because it isnt gambling at all then no. You are purchasing random game pieces. At no point do any of those words sound like gambling. Other people may define it differently but those other people aren't the ones producing and selling the product.
So yes believing wizards has opened themselves to massive lawsuits is just crazy. Anyone attempting to sue wizards over this only has a chance if the Supreme Court declares that any randomized product is gambling. The odds of such a thing happening are close to 0% so don't expect lawsuits anytime soon. As long as corporations can sell randomized products to customers there is no chance wizards will be hit by gambling lawsuits for their boosters.
Rare and Mythic also has no legal definition and there is no formal standard set forward by WOTC. It has varied set to set and year to year. Just by virtue of how the cards are distributed one could argue they are Rare and Mythic because there are less of them and they are harder to get. How rare or Mythic is a card in a fixed card set for instance? For the most part mythics in something like the Commander set are equally as rare as some of the rares or commons in that same set.
End of the day, they printed the rare symbol on common cards that take up this slot, and that is as much a rare as anything else.
the set also isn't out yet. so nothing has actually sold. its all preorders at this point. haven't seen a store yet say a preorder isn't refundable, and some don't even require prepayment so you can just like choose not buy it.
trying to sue because the cards you haven't bought or opened yet are a different rarity than you expected them to be, when you can just choose not buy at all, is kind of... well i don't think that holds much weight.
Personally I think if someone would want to go after WotC/Hasbro via a lawsuit or class action lawsuit it should be from the following angle.
Card Quality:
Hasbro/WotC selling misprints, damaged cards, miscuts, too thin cardstock, etc. in a brand new pack of cards. And actually more to the point, selling foiled versions that come pre-curled and cannot be played in tournaments due to them being "marked" cards.
I think this would have more of a chance personally.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
While most of that sounds plausible WarMachinePrime because you can contact them and get replacements for most of them I'm certain they wouldn't hold up.
With that said I think your actual best shot would be on the curled foils. Selling known defective game peices sounds like it could actually be something you can get them on.
I'm willing to make the argument that MTG is now involved with class warfare because of Double Masters. So class conflict often referred to as class struggle and class warfare is the political tension and economic antagonism that exists in society consequence to the socio-economic competition among the social classes are between rich, middle class, and poor. So we can view this as a pyramid and the majority of MTG players are maybe students, probably still in college, maybe younger people. Maybe they're people who don't have the best paying jobs so they would all be at the bottom of the pyramid and support the middle and the top of the pyramid. I started playing MTG right after I graduated from high school so I'd be almost at the bottom of the pyramid. The forms of class conflict include direct violence such as wars for resource and cheap labor, revolution, indirect violence such as deaths from starvation, illness, or unsafe working conditions, economic coercion such as threat of unemployment or with the withdrawal of investment capital or ideologue by way of political literature.
So here we have a system where the majority of MTG players are unable to afford a $100 booster pack or it would be very unwise for them to buy something like this during the middle of a pandemic or at any time really pandemic or non-pandemic and we already have a premium product it's called Double Masters. That itself is a premium product over the other premium product being a regular Masters set. Then that itself is a premium product you know. So a regular Masters set you know, Modern Masters, Eternal Masters, it is itself a premium product of mostly reprints. Then when you make a premium product of a premium product hence Double Masters, double the value I guess and double the cost, then you have a VIP Edition of the premium product of the premium product of the premium product, you can see this going on and on but really it all comes down to class warfare and whether or not you have the money to be one of these cool kids. Do you have the money to open a $100 booster pack?
It's been seen within the Sports Card Industry where some people have collected Sports cards for a very long time where some cards are actually made from gold as in 18 carat gold it can't be 24 carats because apparently the cards get molded. There's Sports cards that were made out of 18 karat gold and they had diamonds in them like legit diamonds including sapphires, rubies, and emeralds, no joke. There's a product called Panini Eminence and there's even different sized diamonds like really sometimes you get really large diamonds in them and of course it's resold throughout so it's not like they're losing money of course they're making a lot of money from these cards or diamonds and these cards made from gold. As in bars of gold in these cards. No joke. Taking a look at the Sports Card Industry and it's evolution it was inevitable that one day MTG would get there. $100 a booster pack is nothing to the Sports Card Industry. In fact $100 booster pack is considered cheap to the Sports Card Industry.
We have things that cost $5,000 a booster pack like it's still packed. It's a box of 10 cards and a few encased cards If you will and it comes in a briefcase or it comes in a really nice wooden cigar box that isn't very fancy. Obviously the Sports Card Industry has dealt with this longer so they've modernized it and they made it so that it's more attractive. Every year you have to do something more attractive than the last year of course. So the Sports Card Industry is ahead of MTG in terms of display and how the cards feel. MTG kinda looks crappy for it's premium products nowadays to be quite honest though it wasn't like this back when they cared about foils more with the From the Vault series or how they used to print old school foils with the shooting star on the bottom of the cards. Why are those kind of foils now only reserved for Judge Promos? They stopped doing this recently but still those old school card templates in foil were pretty nice looking.
The people who open Double Masters being $100 booster packs, they will tend to be wealthier, not all of them some of them will be casual players but they will tend to have more money, and they will tend to be of a different economic stature and that's not good for this game overall. It's very bad actually for society in general. $100 a booster pack is going to divide the games' player base as everyone regardless of their political class whether they're rich, middle class, or poor wants a booster pack. Just because you can't afford it doesn't mean that you don't want it. So you want the cards but you can't afford them. Isn't this a divide that Wizards of the Coast should be more worried about? Players should be treated as If they were ALL in the same social economic status not in segmented groups between rich, middle class, and poor. MTG isn't just a luxury product when it should be a product for ALL players. I get that it's a collectible item but at the same time players need to be able to afford the cost to play it.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
I'm willing to make the argument that MTG is now involved with class warfare because of Double Masters. So class conflict often referred to as class struggle and class warfare is the political tension and economic antagonism that exists in society consequence to the socio-economic competition among the social classes are between rich, middle class, and poor. So we can view this as a pyramid and the majority of MTG players are maybe students, probably still in college, maybe younger people. Maybe they're people who don't have the best paying jobs so they would all be at the bottom of the pyramid and support the middle and the top of the pyramid. I started playing MTG right after I graduated from high school so I'd be almost at the bottom of the pyramid. The forms of class conflict include direct violence such as wars for resource and cheap labor, revolution, indirect violence such as deaths from starvation, illness, or unsafe working conditions, economic coercion such as threat of unemployment or with the withdrawal of investment capital or ideologue by way of political literature.
So here we have a system where the majority of MTG players are unable to afford a $100 booster pack or it would be very unwise for them to buy something like this during the middle of a pandemic or at any time really pandemic or non-pandemic and we already have a premium product it's called Double Masters. That itself is a premium product over the other premium product being a regular Masters set. Then that itself is a premium product you know. So a regular Masters set you know, Modern Masters, Eternal Masters, it is itself a premium product of mostly reprints. Then when you make a premium product of a premium product hence Double Masters, double the value I guess and double the cost, then you have a VIP Edition of the premium product of the premium product of the premium product, you can see this going on and on but really it all comes down to class warfare and whether or not you have the money to be one of these cool kids. Do you have the money to open a $100 booster pack?
It's been seen within the Sports Card Industry where some people have collected Sports cards for a very long time where some cards are actually made from gold as in 18 carat gold it can't be 24 carats because apparently the cards get molded. There's Sports cards that were made out of 18 karat gold and they had diamonds in them like legit diamonds including sapphires, rubies, and emeralds, no joke. There's a product called Panini Eminence and there's even different sized diamonds like really sometimes you get really large diamonds in them and of course it's resold throughout so it's not like they're losing money of course they're making a lot of money from these cards or diamonds and these cards made from gold. As in bars of gold in these cards. No joke. Taking a look at the Sports Card Industry and it's evolution it was inevitable that one day MTG would get there. $100 a booster pack is nothing to the Sports Card Industry. In fact $100 booster pack is considered cheap to the Sports Card Industry.
We have things that cost $5,000 a booster pack like it's still packed. It's a box of 10 cards and a few encased cards If you will and it comes in a briefcase or it comes in a really nice wooden cigar box that isn't very fancy. Obviously the Sports Card Industry has dealt with this longer so they've modernized it and they made it so that it's more attractive. Every year you have to do something more attractive than the last year of course. So the Sports Card Industry is ahead of MTG in terms of display and how the cards feel. MTG kinda looks crappy for it's premium products nowadays to be quite honest though it wasn't like this back when they cared about foils more with the From the Vault series or how they used to print old school foils with the shooting star on the bottom of the cards. Why are those kind of foils now only reserved for Judge Promos? They stopped doing this recently but still those old school card templates in foil were pretty nice looking.
The people who open Double Masters being $100 booster packs, they will tend to be wealthier, not all of them some of them will be casual players but they will tend to have more money, and they will tend to be of a different economic stature and that's not good for this game overall. It's very bad actually for society in general. $100 a booster pack is going to divide the games' player base as everyone regardless of their political class whether they're rich, middle class, or poor wants a booster pack. Just because you can't afford it doesn't mean that you don't want it. So you want the cards but you can't afford them. Isn't this a divide that Wizards of the Coast should be more worried about? Players should be treated as If they were ALL in the same social economic status not in segmented groups between rich, middle class, and poor. MTG isn't just a luxury product when it should be a product for ALL players. I get that it's a collectible item but at the same time players need to be able to afford the cost to play it.
i think its also important to remember that the sports card industry completely collapsed in the 90's. more than a few of the reasons why that collapse happened have been popping up in magic lately. i think a lot of those lessons are neglected with magic because its just one company producing the cards, but those lessons are real. they're also quantifiable through other failed tcg's, and magic's own past. the next few years should be interesting to say the least.
i think its also important to remember that the sports card industry completely collapsed in the 90's. more than a few of the reasons why that collapse happened have been popping up in magic lately. i think a lot of those lessons are neglected with magic because its just one company producing the cards, but those lessons are real. they're also quantifiable through other failed tcg's, and magic's own past. the next few years should be interesting to say the least.
I want to ask everyone who mentions this what exactly you mean. From my light researcher of the collapse and revitalization of sports cards it looks like a concensus on its collapse can be boiled down to Too many cards were printed because fake demand via speculators. And its making a combake by producing a glut of various products through the year to keep hitting the market with fresh product.
When I look at that and compare it to magic it feels like they took those lessons to heart. They aren't printing too many cards as evidenced by the constant complaint that we aren't getting enough reprints. And they are bombarding the market with a constant flow of new product.
So please. What lessons do you people take from the sports card collapse that are actually at odds with current magic?
Correct. The Sports Card Industry back in the 90's wanted to increase their profits by artificially creating scarcity in very expensive cards and over-producing the 'common' sets which used to be the single set of cards which everyone traded on. By doing so, collectors could no longer find meaningful gems in sets (If you got an All-Star, it wasn't valuable because it wasn't the one in 500 cards randomly placed which had a piece of a game used glove or a personal autograph), making it no fun for them. I only dabbled a little bit into Sports Card collecting when I was a kid growing up in the late 80's and early 90's. One of my cousins used to be really heavy into it back in the day.
MTG Double Masters as well as many other Premium products have limited print runs to create that artificial scarcity with expensive cards that create short term supply so that when these cards spike in price again Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro as well as MTGFinance make more money off the demand for these cards by hoarding sealed Premium products to flip onto the Secondary Market to turn a profit later thus pricing out those who couldn't afford it. I assume that the Sports Card Industry back in the 90's were doing something similar by partaking in this kind of class warfare by pricing their own target demographic out of the market by catering to those who were wealthy and rich enough to afford it.
The marketing bubbles of other collectible items such as ty Beanie Babies show similar stories (which I used to collect as well but were no longer profitable due to how mass produced they were). Early collectors collect purely for the joy than the speculation. The supply of these items declined over time as most of them weren't kept in mint / near mint condition or they we're thrown out. The earliest versions were produced in limited supply due to low demand. Prices spike due to demand, then demand increases for new versions. Manufacturers increase production, speculators think that the new items will appreciate just like the old ones, and buyers stockpile them. Then they cash in and lower prices just to sell.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
America Bless Christ Jesus
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Correct. The Sports Card Industry back in the 90's wanted to increase their profits by artificially creating scarcity in very expensive cards and over-producing the 'common' sets which used to be the single set of cards which everyone traded on. By doing so, collectors could no longer find meaningful gems in sets (If you got an All-Star, it wasn't valuable because it wasn't the one in 500 cards randomly placed which had a piece of a game used glove or a personal autograph), making it no fun for them. I only dabbled a little bit into Sports Card collecting when I was a kid growing up in the late 80's and early 90's. One of my cousins used to be really heavy into it back in the day.
MTG Double Masters as well as many other Premium products have limited print runs to create that artificial scarcity with expensive cards that create short term supply so that when these cards spike in price again Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro as well as MTGFinance make more money off the demand for these cards by hoarding sealed Premium products to flip onto the Secondary Market to turn a profit later thus pricing out those who couldn't afford it. I assume that the Sports Card Industry back in the 90's were doing something similar by partaking in this kind of class warfare by pricing their own target demographic out of the market by catering to those who were wealthy and rich enough to afford it.
The marketing bubbles of other collectible items such as ty Beanie Babies show similar stories (which I used to collect as well but were no longer profitable due to how mass produced they were). Early collectors collect purely for the joy than the speculation. The supply of these items declined over time as most of them weren't kept in mint / near mint condition or they we're thrown out. The earliest versions were produced in limited supply due to low demand. Prices spike due to demand, then demand increases for new versions. Manufacturers increase production, speculators think that the new items will appreciate just like the old ones, and buyers stockpile them. Then they cash in and lower prices just to sell.
This does an OK job explaining the sports card collapse but fails to draw reasonable parallels to Magic. It sounds like you are trying to draw parallels but not to anything that caused the collapse. Your argument seems to be (This is why that collapsed, This is something they did that I don't like and Magic is doing that thing) I don't see the thread that connects the collapses with the practice you pointed out Magic does.
It sounds like you are perfectly explaining why Magic doesn't reprint to appease their vocal fans because they learned the lesson that overprinting desired cards causes the collapse of the system. Is that what you meant? If so what is that middle paragraph? It's at odds with the first and last one. Is there something I am missing in what you are saying?
It sounds like you are perfectly explaining why Magic doesn't reprint to appease their vocal fans because they learned the lesson that overprinting desired cards causes the collapse of the system. Is that what you meant? If so what is that middle paragraph? It's at odds with the first and last one. Is there something I am missing in what you are saying?
This reminds me of what Feyd_Ruin posted on MTGNexus:
Quote from Feyd_Ruin »
Things used to be easier. The reserve list, by definition, shows that WotC once openly acknowledged the secondary market.
One could easily argue that they are now legally bound to it as a Promissory Estoppel, and as such it would be "grandfathered" in as acceptable (since revoking it to align with current laws would also put them legally liable) — as long as they never add to it.
Now days, however, the laws have changed and they have to walk a tight rope.
Reprinting cards to lower prices is, by itself, an absolute acknowledgement of the secondary market. This is why they can never refer to the prices of cards, especially with regards to reprints. They reprint cards that are "desirable" or to "increase supply" in order for more people to play with them. While these two things directly affect price, they can say they're doing the former without acknowledging the latter. It's very much a tight rope.
As to the real question at hand:
How can we make these products in a way that allows that audience to get what they want without all of you feeling like we're doing harm to you?
Reprint sets should be used to increase supply of desirable cards.
Secret Lair, Promos, Special Pack versions, Alternate Arts, Alternate Frames, etc, should be for the big spenders.
It's the exact same as regular cards vs foil cards that's been here for years. Some people just want cards to play with, so they can enjoy the game, while some love foiling out their entire deck. Give the people who just want to play the game more access to desirable, playable cards, and give the people who like bling fancy versions that we awe at.
Want proof that this will work? Sol Ring, normal version, is sub $5 from multiple sets. Sol Ring, Judge Reward, is $190. Sol Ring, Inventions, is $345.
And sol ring isn't some special case either. Lotus Petal, normal version, is $8. Lotus Petal, From the Vault, is $37 Lotus Petal, Inventions, is $125.
Bling caters to that higher-spending audience, which they will pay for, while basic reprints (should) cater to all players. We fully expect to pay more for fancy versions, and many will pay handsomely for it. But average players need to not be priced out of the game because basic format-defining cards have their demand so much higher then their supply.
This would also directly help you to pretend the secondary market doesn't exist. This set isn't more expensive because it contains cards that the secondary market has driven the price up on, they're more expensive only because they're special, rare versions.
Game players win because they can buy reasonably priced products with cards they need in it.
High end players win because they can buy super fancy versions to bling out there deck.
Collectors win because they'll transition more to the bling versions that fetch high prices.
LGS wins because they can sell to all of the above.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
We got to a point where the chinese proxy fake cards have a BETTER quality than the actual real cards.
Yea, thats just pathetic and sad.
Yeah, you're right. If you take an old swamp you can do the bend test or just get a good flex. Today if you bend any card you will destroy it. The cards quality is erratic too. Sometimes you get high end cards. Sometimes you get thin garbage with bad printing. Or you get the middle level which is still doesn't compare to an old swamp. They have very high margins now for their product line. That can easily afford to get the old print quality back.
I don't think they need to be sued for anything though. If we are talking about suing a collectible card game company that is a bridge too far. The game will start to implode on it's own if people are that angry. They sure over priced this double masters product. I get that the old suggested retail for a booster box was around $140-$150. But that's crazy, no one ever paid that. It was $90 about for forever. So if we do the old retail then sure it's $300. But it should be more like $180. You get minimum 2x the rares plus some extra. If you feel you need to sue then you probably need to stop playing and find something else to do, because it's not fun anymore for you. I'd suggest completely getting out of tournament play. There are hundreds of sports out there that cost less money that are competitive if that's what people want.
i disagree, while i don't think a lawsuit is entirely necessary here, they do seek to correct aberrant behaviors before things progress too far. for instance, were some lawsuit to arise over this it would send a very clear message the player base does not want this kind of precedent for product set. that they won't tolerate it. all without having to sacrifice sales in a dramatic way in the future. it's far too easy to just stop buying and watch as things deteriorate without a clear solution. case in point the novels, they became a self fulling prophecy. quality declined, and declined, and declined, and then so did sales. then poof no more novels and we're all left wondering wtf happened. i'm not saying a lawsuit would have solved that, or that they can solve everything, i'm saying they do have their place in allowing voices to be heard when there is no other option.
further, lets be real. the precedent IS now set. this set will sell. bottom line doesn't care how or to who. so if whales and stores buy up all the product to crack or flip, its still sold. product did its job. lets do it again.
The vip boxes are searchable just like the showcase packs from ultimate masters
why would that make it possible?
even if you could prove that the seller searched it, or even resealed it, wouldn't it fall onto the shoulders of the seller of that particular kit and not the manufacturer, assuming you could even prove it?
believe me, i do feel the product is an exploitation of the customers, i do feel it throws gambling right into our faces like never before, but a lawsuit over the contents, or the ability to search, feels like grasping at straws by a desperate community.
they're beholden to money bottom line. don't buy this product. sell your hasbro stock. stop buying sealed product. write them letters. actual letters, not facebook comments. talk about it in your social circles. talk about it with your shop owners.
if a lawsuit works great, fine, fantastic even... it just feels like its not feasible here for the reasons some are pushing for. i do think a case could easily be made regarding gambling because of this product, and i think that's the angle that really needs to be taken if there's a lawsuit at all. granted i'm not a lawyer, but the gambling side of it feels like a much larger issue here than not getting some shiny rare.
even if you could prove that the seller searched it, or even resealed it, wouldn't it fall onto the shoulders of the seller of that particular kit and not the manufacturer, assuming you could even prove it?
You can simply build your product to be not searchable in any reasonable manner.
They failed to do that for their most expensive product ever ... if any product needed more care, than its this one.
even if you could prove that the seller searched it, or even resealed it, wouldn't it fall onto the shoulders of the seller of that particular kit and not the manufacturer, assuming you could even prove it?
You can simply build your product to be not searchable in any reasonable manner.
They failed to do that for their most expensive product ever ... if any product needed more care, than its this one.
okay but like... the product isnt unless the third party does it. right from wizards its not searchable and is sealed.
the third party has to open it and reseal it to search it. thats the same as any sealed product anywhere. do you see how thats not on wizards?
further, well... where do they ensure the product cant be searched? randomized contents maybe, but ensuring their independent sellers wont be scum and search it? not really a sure thing. they also dont sell direct but sell instead to a distributor removing them even further from your lgs's bad business practices.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
If it was a no argument gambling then yes but because it isnt gambling at all then no. You are purchasing random game pieces. At no point do any of those words sound like gambling. Other people may define it differently but those other people aren't the ones producing and selling the product.
So yes believing wizards has opened themselves to massive lawsuits is just crazy. Anyone attempting to sue wizards over this only has a chance if the Supreme Court declares that any randomized product is gambling. The odds of such a thing happening are close to 0% so don't expect lawsuits anytime soon. As long as corporations can sell randomized products to customers there is no chance wizards will be hit by gambling lawsuits for their boosters.
End of the day, they printed the rare symbol on common cards that take up this slot, and that is as much a rare as anything else.
Http://www.fantasticneighborhood.com/
Comedy gaming podcast. Listening to it makes you cool.
trying to sue because the cards you haven't bought or opened yet are a different rarity than you expected them to be, when you can just choose not buy at all, is kind of... well i don't think that holds much weight.
Card Quality:
Hasbro/WotC selling misprints, damaged cards, miscuts, too thin cardstock, etc. in a brand new pack of cards. And actually more to the point, selling foiled versions that come pre-curled and cannot be played in tournaments due to them being "marked" cards.
I think this would have more of a chance personally.
From DesolatorMagic on YouTube below:
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
With that said I think your actual best shot would be on the curled foils. Selling known defective game peices sounds like it could actually be something you can get them on.
So here we have a system where the majority of MTG players are unable to afford a $100 booster pack or it would be very unwise for them to buy something like this during the middle of a pandemic or at any time really pandemic or non-pandemic and we already have a premium product it's called Double Masters. That itself is a premium product over the other premium product being a regular Masters set. Then that itself is a premium product you know. So a regular Masters set you know, Modern Masters, Eternal Masters, it is itself a premium product of mostly reprints. Then when you make a premium product of a premium product hence Double Masters, double the value I guess and double the cost, then you have a VIP Edition of the premium product of the premium product of the premium product, you can see this going on and on but really it all comes down to class warfare and whether or not you have the money to be one of these cool kids. Do you have the money to open a $100 booster pack?
It's been seen within the Sports Card Industry where some people have collected Sports cards for a very long time where some cards are actually made from gold as in 18 carat gold it can't be 24 carats because apparently the cards get molded. There's Sports cards that were made out of 18 karat gold and they had diamonds in them like legit diamonds including sapphires, rubies, and emeralds, no joke. There's a product called Panini Eminence and there's even different sized diamonds like really sometimes you get really large diamonds in them and of course it's resold throughout so it's not like they're losing money of course they're making a lot of money from these cards or diamonds and these cards made from gold. As in bars of gold in these cards. No joke. Taking a look at the Sports Card Industry and it's evolution it was inevitable that one day MTG would get there. $100 a booster pack is nothing to the Sports Card Industry. In fact $100 booster pack is considered cheap to the Sports Card Industry.
We have things that cost $5,000 a booster pack like it's still packed. It's a box of 10 cards and a few encased cards If you will and it comes in a briefcase or it comes in a really nice wooden cigar box that isn't very fancy. Obviously the Sports Card Industry has dealt with this longer so they've modernized it and they made it so that it's more attractive. Every year you have to do something more attractive than the last year of course. So the Sports Card Industry is ahead of MTG in terms of display and how the cards feel. MTG kinda looks crappy for it's premium products nowadays to be quite honest though it wasn't like this back when they cared about foils more with the From the Vault series or how they used to print old school foils with the shooting star on the bottom of the cards. Why are those kind of foils now only reserved for Judge Promos? They stopped doing this recently but still those old school card templates in foil were pretty nice looking.
The people who open Double Masters being $100 booster packs, they will tend to be wealthier, not all of them some of them will be casual players but they will tend to have more money, and they will tend to be of a different economic stature and that's not good for this game overall. It's very bad actually for society in general. $100 a booster pack is going to divide the games' player base as everyone regardless of their political class whether they're rich, middle class, or poor wants a booster pack. Just because you can't afford it doesn't mean that you don't want it. So you want the cards but you can't afford them. Isn't this a divide that Wizards of the Coast should be more worried about? Players should be treated as If they were ALL in the same social economic status not in segmented groups between rich, middle class, and poor. MTG isn't just a luxury product when it should be a product for ALL players. I get that it's a collectible item but at the same time players need to be able to afford the cost to play it.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
i think its also important to remember that the sports card industry completely collapsed in the 90's. more than a few of the reasons why that collapse happened have been popping up in magic lately. i think a lot of those lessons are neglected with magic because its just one company producing the cards, but those lessons are real. they're also quantifiable through other failed tcg's, and magic's own past. the next few years should be interesting to say the least.
When I look at that and compare it to magic it feels like they took those lessons to heart. They aren't printing too many cards as evidenced by the constant complaint that we aren't getting enough reprints. And they are bombarding the market with a constant flow of new product.
So please. What lessons do you people take from the sports card collapse that are actually at odds with current magic?
MTG Double Masters as well as many other Premium products have limited print runs to create that artificial scarcity with expensive cards that create short term supply so that when these cards spike in price again Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro as well as MTGFinance make more money off the demand for these cards by hoarding sealed Premium products to flip onto the Secondary Market to turn a profit later thus pricing out those who couldn't afford it. I assume that the Sports Card Industry back in the 90's were doing something similar by partaking in this kind of class warfare by pricing their own target demographic out of the market by catering to those who were wealthy and rich enough to afford it.
The marketing bubbles of other collectible items such as ty Beanie Babies show similar stories (which I used to collect as well but were no longer profitable due to how mass produced they were). Early collectors collect purely for the joy than the speculation. The supply of these items declined over time as most of them weren't kept in mint / near mint condition or they we're thrown out. The earliest versions were produced in limited supply due to low demand. Prices spike due to demand, then demand increases for new versions. Manufacturers increase production, speculators think that the new items will appreciate just like the old ones, and buyers stockpile them. Then they cash in and lower prices just to sell.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
It sounds like you are perfectly explaining why Magic doesn't reprint to appease their vocal fans because they learned the lesson that overprinting desired cards causes the collapse of the system. Is that what you meant? If so what is that middle paragraph? It's at odds with the first and last one. Is there something I am missing in what you are saying?
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Yea, thats just pathetic and sad.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
i disagree, while i don't think a lawsuit is entirely necessary here, they do seek to correct aberrant behaviors before things progress too far. for instance, were some lawsuit to arise over this it would send a very clear message the player base does not want this kind of precedent for product set. that they won't tolerate it. all without having to sacrifice sales in a dramatic way in the future. it's far too easy to just stop buying and watch as things deteriorate without a clear solution. case in point the novels, they became a self fulling prophecy. quality declined, and declined, and declined, and then so did sales. then poof no more novels and we're all left wondering wtf happened. i'm not saying a lawsuit would have solved that, or that they can solve everything, i'm saying they do have their place in allowing voices to be heard when there is no other option.
further, lets be real. the precedent IS now set. this set will sell. bottom line doesn't care how or to who. so if whales and stores buy up all the product to crack or flip, its still sold. product did its job. lets do it again.
The vip boxes are searchable just like the showcase packs from ultimate masters
why would that make it possible?
even if you could prove that the seller searched it, or even resealed it, wouldn't it fall onto the shoulders of the seller of that particular kit and not the manufacturer, assuming you could even prove it?
believe me, i do feel the product is an exploitation of the customers, i do feel it throws gambling right into our faces like never before, but a lawsuit over the contents, or the ability to search, feels like grasping at straws by a desperate community.
they're beholden to money bottom line. don't buy this product. sell your hasbro stock. stop buying sealed product. write them letters. actual letters, not facebook comments. talk about it in your social circles. talk about it with your shop owners.
if a lawsuit works great, fine, fantastic even... it just feels like its not feasible here for the reasons some are pushing for. i do think a case could easily be made regarding gambling because of this product, and i think that's the angle that really needs to be taken if there's a lawsuit at all. granted i'm not a lawyer, but the gambling side of it feels like a much larger issue here than not getting some shiny rare.
You can simply build your product to be not searchable in any reasonable manner.
They failed to do that for their most expensive product ever ... if any product needed more care, than its this one.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
okay but like... the product isnt unless the third party does it. right from wizards its not searchable and is sealed.
the third party has to open it and reseal it to search it. thats the same as any sealed product anywhere. do you see how thats not on wizards?
further, well... where do they ensure the product cant be searched? randomized contents maybe, but ensuring their independent sellers wont be scum and search it? not really a sure thing. they also dont sell direct but sell instead to a distributor removing them even further from your lgs's bad business practices.