Is it just me or does it seem like Nether Spirit and Endling got printed to oblivion in this set? While I opened two boxes and got only one a piece per box, any time I've bought a draft pack or random booster packs from an LGS, I always seem to get at least one of these two cards in the pack, or if I don't the friend who I'm with pulls them. I have like 6 of each of these cards and barely opened 12 loose packs after the 2 booster boxes. Please share whether or not this is happening to you too, I'm curious.
Is it just me or does it seem like Nether Spirit and Endling got printed to oblivion in this set? While I opened two boxes and got only one a piece per box, any time I've bought a draft pack or random booster packs from an LGS, I always seem to get at least one of these two cards in the pack, or if I don't the friend who I'm with pulls them. I have like 6 of each of these cards and barely opened 12 loose packs after the 2 booster boxes. Please share whether or not this is happening to you too, I'm curious.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Is track printing of today different than the old rarity levels?
For those who don’t know. Old sets such as ABUR aAlso had different rarity levels for cards depending on how often appears and on which sheet. This is why many old set lists will often note a card as being C1, C2, U1, R2 etc. This is why it’s possible for a card of R2 or R3 rarity to be more common that a card that’s of the C1 variety.
Interestingly, this small detail has been completely removed in new lists for old sets and a lot of players don’t even seem to be aware of it.
How does this video "hit the nail on the head" by saying track printing is a thing? It's not hard to say something is a thing and then say other people have done the hard work of proving its a thing. If you linked to one of those people who have the math that would actually support this idea. I personally can't find anyone with the math but I didn't look very hard. Only found people saying the math was out there and people have confirmed it.
How does this video "hit the nail on the head" by saying track printing is a thing? It's not hard to say something is a thing and then say other people have done the hard work of proving its a thing. If you linked to one of those people who have the math that would actually support this idea. I personally can't find anyone with the math but I didn't look very hard. Only found people saying the math was out there and people have confirmed it.
Unlike earlier sets, Wizards refuses to publish correct rarities or seem to even acknowledge they do track printing at all. The result is you have people who have opened cases of cards and notice the disparities between cards amongst the same rarities. They tally the cards, do a bit of math, and discover there’s track printing. Then you have the staunch supporters of WotC who absolutely refuse to believe that WotC would ever do such a thing.
In other words, the current idea of a cards rarity at common, uncommon, rare and mythic is somewhat misleading to consumers. This is especially dangerous to WotC since they are marketed to 13+ crowd (this is moving down as evidenced by WotC catering to some very young players like Dana Fischer).
But I digress. For the rest of us poor mortals who open anywhere from 0 packs to 36, the evidence is anecdotal at best. But even down at the commons this should become visible when opening just a box. For example, I received six Angelic Gifts and one Ferocious Pup in a box. How much of that can be attributed to randomness and how much of it is due to tracks?
How does this video "hit the nail on the head" by saying track printing is a thing? It's not hard to say something is a thing and then say other people have done the hard work of proving its a thing. If you linked to one of those people who have the math that would actually support this idea. I personally can't find anyone with the math but I didn't look very hard. Only found people saying the math was out there and people have confirmed it.
Unlike earlier sets, Wizards refuses to publish correct rarities or seem to even acknowledge they do track printing at all. The result is you have people who have opened cases of cards and notice the disparities between cards amongst the same rarities. They tally the cards, do a bit of math, and discover there’s track printing. Then you have the staunch supporters of WotC who absolutely refuse to believe that WotC would ever do such a thing.
In other words, the current idea of a cards rarity at common, uncommon, rare and mythic is somewhat misleading to consumers. This is especially dangerous to WotC since they are marketed to 13+ crowd (this is moving down as evidenced by WotC catering to some very young players like Dana Fischer).
But I digress. For the rest of us poor mortals who open anywhere from 0 packs to 36, the evidence is anecdotal at best. But even down at the commons this should become visible when opening just a box. For example, I received six Angelic Gifts and one Ferocious Pup in a box. How much of that can be attributed to randomness and how much of it is due to tracks?
I understand that lots of people believe that there is track printing. I also understand that there is actually evidence of this. What I don't understand is how that video that was linked above helps at all. A link to the actual evidence rather than someone talking about the exisitance if evidence is much better. They also barely discuss this at all mostly talking about the potential new gambling laws. Which further confuses me as to why this video "hits the nail in the head"
I'm not sold on this idea. For a number of years now I've been cracking and organizing cases at my LGS. For Core 2020 the breakdown went like this(two cases);
opened 3 to 4 of any given Mythic with one having 5 copies, 5 to 9 of any given Rare with 7 being the average, the distribution levels seemed random not like there were 5 of the chase Rares and 9 of the crap Rares. There were 10 to 14 copies of any given Uncommon with 13 being the average.
The distribution between the cases was very random, with on or two copies of a Rare or Mythic in one case but far more in the other and vice versa. In talking with people that open larger volumes (6+ cases), they've expressed that at those numbers it pretty much balances out.
I do know that any given box or case can seem to have a wide range of random, with some seeming pattern. But at a high enough volume that pattern vanishes, in my anecdotal experience. That volume being 3+ cases.
During RTR I bought 3 boxes looking for Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius only to open zero. Bought a friend a box for his birthday and he pulled it. That's how those small numbers roll.
This is just my observation from my personal experience, I've seen very little evidence of track printing like other are insinuating. That's not to say it doesn't happen, I just am not convinced by the number I've witnessed.
I personally don't believe there is track printing form the sole evidence that we have seen uncut sheets stolen from Wizards printing facilities.
However when some people claim that when you get into opening hundreds of cases you notice actual differences of up to 20% more of a specific card then all I can say is I would like to see those numbers over multiple sets but no one seems to actually have them.
Large volume sellers have claimed that it occurs, anecdotal evidence points to it as well. Bury your head in the sand but it was a thing as they have admitted in the past and it appears to be occurring currently as well. The proof will never come until WotC is forced to give us numbers. The only way they will ever be forced to do so is by government regulation in the form of gambling laws.
The video is DEAD ON. I have NO connection to that person whatsoever but he speaks the truth and a smart consumer should remember what he says. Odds are stacked against you and it will only get worse until it gets better.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Unlike earlier sets, Wizards refuses to publish correct rarities or seem to even acknowledge they do track printing at all. The result is you have people who have opened cases of cards and notice the disparities between cards amongst the same rarities. They tally the cards, do a bit of math, and discover there’s track printing. Then you have the staunch supporters of WotC who absolutely refuse to believe that WotC would ever do such a thing.
Hiding information is never good. You build trust by being truthful, I will never trust WotC as long as they don't release numbers or at least partial numbers of printings or the ratio of track printings. I buy of course, but am ever hesitant.
Staunch Supporters choose to bury their head in the sand. I understand wanting to have absolute proof. That proof is only going to come if a government edict forces them to disclose it. You hook someone on the game, you stack the odds against them so they have to buy more, you make more money selling them more. Its a great setup for them and I don't really blame them for doing it. But its sleazy.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Unlike earlier sets, Wizards refuses to publish correct rarities or seem to even acknowledge they do track printing at all. The result is you have people who have opened cases of cards and notice the disparities between cards amongst the same rarities. They tally the cards, do a bit of math, and discover there’s track printing. Then you have the staunch supporters of WotC who absolutely refuse to believe that WotC would ever do such a thing.
Hiding information is never good. You build trust by being truthful, I will never trust WotC as long as they don't release numbers or at least partial numbers of printings or the ratio of track printings. I buy of course, but am ever hesitant.
Staunch Supporters choose to bury their head in the sand. I understand wanting to have absolute proof. That proof is only going to come if a government edict forces them to disclose it. You hook someone on the game, you stack the odds against them so they have to buy more, you make more money selling them more. Its a great setup for them and I don't really blame them for doing it. But its sleazy.
A few points I want to make here. Every organization likes and hides information. If you only trust those that are completely open and truthful than you can't believe anyone. Being doubtful and hesitant is reasonable but demanding absolute honestly is ridiculous.
I am aware that there is lots of anecdotal evidence that track printing is still a thing. I also am aware that there is real evidence that track printing isn't happening. All I said earlier was that a source of someone running those numbers that show track printing is a thing is a lot better than a source simply saying the numbers are out there. I don't want absolute proof I want any proof not someone telling me the proof exists. Which is why I came down hard on the video as nonsensical to this argument.
You can claim people are burying their heads in the sand but if you aren't willing to have a conversation then it's your head that's in sand.
I have my own anecdotal evidence over the course of years and hundreds if not thousands of packs purchased. I have seen visual evidence online. I have read large sellers cracking hundreds of CASES corroborating what I have encountered. Is it incontrovertible evidence proof? No. Is it probable? Most definitely.
They have done it in the past and are most likely doing it now. Evidence of seeing an uncut sheet means almost less than nothing. They could print that sheet in greater or lesser amounts than other sheets. Without numbers from WotC we cant definitively prove it. They aren't going to show them without government intervention in the form of gambling laws. The video was spot on.
Prove me wrong.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I have my own anecdotal evidence over the course of years and hundreds if not thousands of packs purchased. I have seen visual evidence online. I have read large sellers cracking hundreds of CASES corroborating what I have encountered. Is it incontrovertible evidence proof? No. Is it probable? Most definitely.
They have done it in the past and are most likely doing it now. Evidence of seeing an uncut sheet means almost less than nothing. They could print that sheet in greater or lesser amounts than other sheets. Without numbers from WotC we cant definitively prove it. They aren't going to show them without government intervention in the form of gambling laws. The video was spot on.
Prove me wrong.
In science burden of proof is on those trying to prove a thing. In the US legal system burden of proof lies on those trying to prove guilt.
By that logic, anyone claiming track printing is happening has the burden of proof.
“Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof”
Hatcher’s video provides zero evidence to back up his claim. At the moment all any of us have is anecdotal evidence. Until anyone provides empirical evidence all the hot air we can blow amounts to squat. Just opinions and nothing more. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof
I have my own anecdotal evidence over the course of years and hundreds if not thousands of packs purchased. I have seen visual evidence online. I have read large sellers cracking hundreds of CASES corroborating what I have encountered. Is it incontrovertible evidence proof? No. Is it probable? Most definitely.
They have done it in the past and are most likely doing it now. Evidence of seeing an uncut sheet means almost less than nothing. They could print that sheet in greater or lesser amounts than other sheets. Without numbers from WotC we cant definitively prove it. They aren't going to show them without government intervention in the form of gambling laws. The video was spot on.
Prove me wrong.
In science burden of proof is on those trying to prove a thing. In the US legal system burden of proof lies on those trying to prove guilt.
By that logic, anyone claiming track printing is happening has the burden of proof.
“Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof”
Hatcher’s video provides zero evidence to back up his claim. At the moment all any of us have is anecdotal evidence. Until anyone provides empirical evidence all the hot air we can blow amounts to squat. Just opinions and nothing more. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof
I would think that the anecdotal evidence along with the established fact that it has been done in the past would be sufficient to put the ball in your court. If Wizards has ever explicitly stated that they actually stopped doing what they used to do that was exactly this, that would be a different story. and with the commonly accepted statement that prerelease packs are intentionally better than average, it would indicate that it is something they are actively doing. it would not be sufficient to meet burden of proof for a verdict, but it would be more than enough to justify a warrant if this were a crime being investigated. when UMA came out, I got 2 boxes. Not one copy of any of the 7 most valuable most valuable cards, but I got two Lord of Extinction and FOUR copies of Stirring Wildwood (and a 5th as the box topper, that stung more than a bit)
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I have my own anecdotal evidence over the course of years and hundreds if not thousands of packs purchased. I have seen visual evidence online. I have read large sellers cracking hundreds of CASES corroborating what I have encountered. Is it incontrovertible evidence proof? No. Is it probable? Most definitely.
They have done it in the past and are most likely doing it now. Evidence of seeing an uncut sheet means almost less than nothing. They could print that sheet in greater or lesser amounts than other sheets. Without numbers from WotC we cant definitively prove it. They aren't going to show them without government intervention in the form of gambling laws. The video was spot on.
Prove me wrong.
In science burden of proof is on those trying to prove a thing. In the US legal system burden of proof lies on those trying to prove guilt.
By that logic, anyone claiming track printing is happening has the burden of proof.
“Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof”
Hatcher’s video provides zero evidence to back up his claim. At the moment all any of us have is anecdotal evidence. Until anyone provides empirical evidence all the hot air we can blow amounts to squat. Just opinions and nothing more. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof
I would think that the anecdotal evidence along with the established fact that it has been done in the past would be sufficient to put the ball in your court. If Wizards has ever explicitly stated that they actually stopped doing what they used to do that was exactly this, that would be a different story. and with the commonly accepted statement that prerelease packs are intentionally better than average, it would indicate that it is something they are actively doing. it would not be sufficient to meet burden of proof for a verdict, but it would be more than enough to justify a warrant if this were a crime being investigated. when UMA came out, I got 2 boxes. Not one copy of any of the 7 most valuable most valuable cards, but I got two Lord of Extinction and FOUR copies of Stirring Wildwood (and a 5th as the box topper, that stung more than a bit)
Thanks, more evidence to corroborate.
And his video DID provide evidence, albeit anecdotal. I want to see the evidence where Wizards is on the "up and up" when it comes to printing. It can be anecdotal as well.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I have my own anecdotal evidence over the course of years and hundreds if not thousands of packs purchased. I have seen visual evidence online. I have read large sellers cracking hundreds of CASES corroborating what I have encountered. Is it incontrovertible evidence proof? No. Is it probable? Most definitely.
They have done it in the past and are most likely doing it now. Evidence of seeing an uncut sheet means almost less than nothing. They could print that sheet in greater or lesser amounts than other sheets. Without numbers from WotC we cant definitively prove it. They aren't going to show them without government intervention in the form of gambling laws. The video was spot on.
Prove me wrong.
In science burden of proof is on those trying to prove a thing. In the US legal system burden of proof lies on those trying to prove guilt.
By that logic, anyone claiming track printing is happening has the burden of proof.
“Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof”
Hatcher’s video provides zero evidence to back up his claim. At the moment all any of us have is anecdotal evidence. Until anyone provides empirical evidence all the hot air we can blow amounts to squat. Just opinions and nothing more. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof
I would think that the anecdotal evidence along with the established fact that it has been done in the past would be sufficient to put the ball in your court. If Wizards has ever explicitly stated that they actually stopped doing what they used to do that was exactly this, that would be a different story. and with the commonly accepted statement that prerelease packs are intentionally better than average, it would indicate that it is something they are actively doing. it would not be sufficient to meet burden of proof for a verdict, but it would be more than enough to justify a warrant if this were a crime being investigated. when UMA came out, I got 2 boxes. Not one copy of any of the 7 most valuable most valuable cards, but I got two Lord of Extinction and FOUR copies of Stirring Wildwood (and a 5th as the box topper, that stung more than a bit)
Wizards has said they stopped doing this. They admit there used to be U1 U2 and U3 for uncommons and a similar sorting for rares. They say they stopped doing this. The only thing we have the comes close to actual evidence of either option is uncut sheets stolen from printers that support there not being track printing. On the other hand is lots of anecdotal evidence that tracy printing is a thing. People have claimed there are people who have 'run the numbers' but these people are apparently being just as hush hush as wizards about the numbers they have so it amounts to evidence of a conspiracy in the opposite direction rather than evidence supporting their claim.
WotC totally short prints some of their cards. I bought a box of Ravnica Allegiance and I only pulled one copy of Pteramander!
Let’s break it down. In your box you opened you received 108 uncommons. Ravnica Allegiance there are 87 different uncommons. After you divide that up you should see 1.24 copies of any given uncommon, so between 1 and 2. One box is far too small a sample to detect any patterns or anomalies.
In any single given box on average, you can get anywhere between 0 and 3 copies of an uncommon with a higher chance of it being 1 to 2.
Why would WOTC short run this particular card? If it’s that amazing why not just make it a rare or mythic?
I have my own anecdotal evidence over the course of years and hundreds if not thousands of packs purchased. I have seen visual evidence online. I have read large sellers cracking hundreds of CASES corroborating what I have encountered. Is it incontrovertible evidence proof? No. Is it probable? Most definitely.
They have done it in the past and are most likely doing it now. Evidence of seeing an uncut sheet means almost less than nothing. They could print that sheet in greater or lesser amounts than other sheets. Without numbers from WotC we cant definitively prove it. They aren't going to show them without government intervention in the form of gambling laws. The video was spot on.
Prove me wrong.
In science burden of proof is on those trying to prove a thing. In the US legal system burden of proof lies on those trying to prove guilt.
By that logic, anyone claiming track printing is happening has the burden of proof.
“Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof”
Hatcher’s video provides zero evidence to back up his claim. At the moment all any of us have is anecdotal evidence. Until anyone provides empirical evidence all the hot air we can blow amounts to squat. Just opinions and nothing more. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof
I would think that the anecdotal evidence along with the established fact that it has been done in the past would be sufficient to put the ball in your court. If Wizards has ever explicitly stated that they actually stopped doing what they used to do that was exactly this, that would be a different story. and with the commonly accepted statement that prerelease packs are intentionally better than average, it would indicate that it is something they are actively doing. it would not be sufficient to meet burden of proof for a verdict, but it would be more than enough to justify a warrant if this were a crime being investigated. when UMA came out, I got 2 boxes. Not one copy of any of the 7 most valuable most valuable cards, but I got two Lord of Extinction and FOUR copies of Stirring Wildwood (and a 5th as the box topper, that stung more than a bit)
Wizards has said they stopped doing this. They admit there used to be U1 U2 and U3 for uncommons and a similar sorting for rares. They say they stopped doing this. The only thing we have the comes close to actual evidence of either option is uncut sheets stolen from printers that support there not being track printing. On the other hand is lots of anecdotal evidence that tracy printing is a thing. People have claimed there are people who have 'run the numbers' but these people are apparently being just as hush hush as wizards about the numbers they have so it amounts to evidence of a conspiracy in the opposite direction rather than evidence supporting their claim.
I just have two points: I’ve seen or heard just as much anecdotal evidence on one side as I have the other, so I feel no need to provide evidence.
Two, I’m not claiming it absolutely doesn’t happen, I’m just saying I’m not convinced it is, and thusly need to be convinced by more than anecdotes. I also have anecdotal evidence based upon my own observations and conversations with others. To change my mind I’d need to see something physically substantial.
Look, both sides of this debate have only provided anecdotal evidence. Either side’s evidence is equally convincing.
Both sides are subject to confirmation bias. So to sit here and argue is just childish.
And since this is the internet, each side’s evidence is spurious at best, LOL.
I just have two points: I’ve seen or heard just as much anecdotal evidence on one side as I have the other, so I feel no need to provide evidence.
Two, I’m not claiming it absolutely doesn’t happen, I’m just saying I’m not convinced it is, and thusly need to be convinced by more than anecdotes. I also have anecdotal evidence based upon my own observations and conversations with others. To change my mind I’d need to see something physically substantial.
Look, both sides of this debate have only provided anecdotal evidence. Either side’s evidence is equally convincing.
Both sides are subject to confirmation bias. So to sit here and argue is just childish.
And since this is the internet, each side’s evidence is spurious at best, LOL.
The problem is there isn't just anecdotal evidence on both sides of the argument. One side actually has physical evidence. People have stolen uncut sheets from print factories. These uncut sheets don't have track printing. This is actual physical evidence against there being track printing. It is far from absolute but when one side has nothing but anecdotes and the other side has any real evidence it's hard to see why people claim the one without evidence is more likely.
Also starting from the stance that everything on the internet is spurious is just as bad as starting from the stance that everything on the internet is true.
I'm pretty sure Maro admitted on one of his somewhat recent podcasts that certain cards are printed in certain frequencies for draft purposes. I think it was the one about boosters.
well it cannot be truly random, we don't have the technology, for it to be functionally 'randomized', some cards will be printed more than others, and Wizards has the ability to control which ones those are. they admit to having done it for years, so I don't see the burden of proof as actually being on the people trying to prove that they are still doing it. the people arguing against it, their argument is based on the assumption that they ever stopped. sure, they said they did, but did they ever give us a reason to believe that? they hide so much from us, they filter what we are allowed to see so carefully. they have to program the machines in some way, they know what the chase cards will be, there is no reason to think that they wouldn't make those cards more rare than others with the same symbol.
so instead of asking why we think they started again, why do you think they stopped? has to be something better than 'the company that never acknowledged the decline in card stock when a toddler could see that it was fact said so'
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My 720 Peasant Cube
Funny you say that. I've bought 5 packs of Horizons in my life. The first crack was an Endling, then a Nether spirit. Then Mirrodin Besieged, Force of Despair, sunbaked canyon. That's where I cut my losses.
Wizards will deny it. Fanboys will deny it, but it is real. No tinfoil hat needed. Here is a good video from today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDZIVxeA4gw
Hits the nail on the head.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Yeah, came here to post the same video.
Is track printing of today different than the old rarity levels?
For those who don’t know. Old sets such as ABUR aAlso had different rarity levels for cards depending on how often appears and on which sheet. This is why many old set lists will often note a card as being C1, C2, U1, R2 etc. This is why it’s possible for a card of R2 or R3 rarity to be more common that a card that’s of the C1 variety.
Interestingly, this small detail has been completely removed in new lists for old sets and a lot of players don’t even seem to be aware of it.
Unlike earlier sets, Wizards refuses to publish correct rarities or seem to even acknowledge they do track printing at all. The result is you have people who have opened cases of cards and notice the disparities between cards amongst the same rarities. They tally the cards, do a bit of math, and discover there’s track printing. Then you have the staunch supporters of WotC who absolutely refuse to believe that WotC would ever do such a thing.
In other words, the current idea of a cards rarity at common, uncommon, rare and mythic is somewhat misleading to consumers. This is especially dangerous to WotC since they are marketed to 13+ crowd (this is moving down as evidenced by WotC catering to some very young players like Dana Fischer).
But I digress. For the rest of us poor mortals who open anywhere from 0 packs to 36, the evidence is anecdotal at best. But even down at the commons this should become visible when opening just a box. For example, I received six Angelic Gifts and one Ferocious Pup in a box. How much of that can be attributed to randomness and how much of it is due to tracks?
opened 3 to 4 of any given Mythic with one having 5 copies, 5 to 9 of any given Rare with 7 being the average, the distribution levels seemed random not like there were 5 of the chase Rares and 9 of the crap Rares. There were 10 to 14 copies of any given Uncommon with 13 being the average.
The distribution between the cases was very random, with on or two copies of a Rare or Mythic in one case but far more in the other and vice versa. In talking with people that open larger volumes (6+ cases), they've expressed that at those numbers it pretty much balances out.
I do know that any given box or case can seem to have a wide range of random, with some seeming pattern. But at a high enough volume that pattern vanishes, in my anecdotal experience. That volume being 3+ cases.
During RTR I bought 3 boxes looking for Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius only to open zero. Bought a friend a box for his birthday and he pulled it. That's how those small numbers roll.
This is just my observation from my personal experience, I've seen very little evidence of track printing like other are insinuating. That's not to say it doesn't happen, I just am not convinced by the number I've witnessed.
However when some people claim that when you get into opening hundreds of cases you notice actual differences of up to 20% more of a specific card then all I can say is I would like to see those numbers over multiple sets but no one seems to actually have them.
Large volume sellers have claimed that it occurs, anecdotal evidence points to it as well. Bury your head in the sand but it was a thing as they have admitted in the past and it appears to be occurring currently as well. The proof will never come until WotC is forced to give us numbers. The only way they will ever be forced to do so is by government regulation in the form of gambling laws.
The video is DEAD ON. I have NO connection to that person whatsoever but he speaks the truth and a smart consumer should remember what he says. Odds are stacked against you and it will only get worse until it gets better.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Hiding information is never good. You build trust by being truthful, I will never trust WotC as long as they don't release numbers or at least partial numbers of printings or the ratio of track printings. I buy of course, but am ever hesitant.
Staunch Supporters choose to bury their head in the sand. I understand wanting to have absolute proof. That proof is only going to come if a government edict forces them to disclose it. You hook someone on the game, you stack the odds against them so they have to buy more, you make more money selling them more. Its a great setup for them and I don't really blame them for doing it. But its sleazy.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I am aware that there is lots of anecdotal evidence that track printing is still a thing. I also am aware that there is real evidence that track printing isn't happening. All I said earlier was that a source of someone running those numbers that show track printing is a thing is a lot better than a source simply saying the numbers are out there. I don't want absolute proof I want any proof not someone telling me the proof exists. Which is why I came down hard on the video as nonsensical to this argument.
You can claim people are burying their heads in the sand but if you aren't willing to have a conversation then it's your head that's in sand.
I have my own anecdotal evidence over the course of years and hundreds if not thousands of packs purchased. I have seen visual evidence online. I have read large sellers cracking hundreds of CASES corroborating what I have encountered. Is it incontrovertible evidence proof? No. Is it probable? Most definitely.
They have done it in the past and are most likely doing it now. Evidence of seeing an uncut sheet means almost less than nothing. They could print that sheet in greater or lesser amounts than other sheets. Without numbers from WotC we cant definitively prove it. They aren't going to show them without government intervention in the form of gambling laws. The video was spot on.
Prove me wrong.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
In science burden of proof is on those trying to prove a thing. In the US legal system burden of proof lies on those trying to prove guilt.
By that logic, anyone claiming track printing is happening has the burden of proof.
“Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof”
Hatcher’s video provides zero evidence to back up his claim. At the moment all any of us have is anecdotal evidence. Until anyone provides empirical evidence all the hot air we can blow amounts to squat. Just opinions and nothing more.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof
I would think that the anecdotal evidence along with the established fact that it has been done in the past would be sufficient to put the ball in your court. If Wizards has ever explicitly stated that they actually stopped doing what they used to do that was exactly this, that would be a different story. and with the commonly accepted statement that prerelease packs are intentionally better than average, it would indicate that it is something they are actively doing. it would not be sufficient to meet burden of proof for a verdict, but it would be more than enough to justify a warrant if this were a crime being investigated. when UMA came out, I got 2 boxes. Not one copy of any of the 7 most valuable most valuable cards, but I got two Lord of Extinction and FOUR copies of Stirring Wildwood (and a 5th as the box topper, that stung more than a bit)
Thanks, more evidence to corroborate.
And his video DID provide evidence, albeit anecdotal. I want to see the evidence where Wizards is on the "up and up" when it comes to printing. It can be anecdotal as well.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Let’s break it down. In your box you opened you received 108 uncommons. Ravnica Allegiance there are 87 different uncommons. After you divide that up you should see 1.24 copies of any given uncommon, so between 1 and 2. One box is far too small a sample to detect any patterns or anomalies.
In any single given box on average, you can get anywhere between 0 and 3 copies of an uncommon with a higher chance of it being 1 to 2.
Why would WOTC short run this particular card? If it’s that amazing why not just make it a rare or mythic?
I just have two points: I’ve seen or heard just as much anecdotal evidence on one side as I have the other, so I feel no need to provide evidence.
Two, I’m not claiming it absolutely doesn’t happen, I’m just saying I’m not convinced it is, and thusly need to be convinced by more than anecdotes. I also have anecdotal evidence based upon my own observations and conversations with others. To change my mind I’d need to see something physically substantial.
Both sides are subject to confirmation bias. So to sit here and argue is just childish.
And since this is the internet, each side’s evidence is spurious at best, LOL.
Also starting from the stance that everything on the internet is spurious is just as bad as starting from the stance that everything on the internet is true.
so instead of asking why we think they started again, why do you think they stopped? has to be something better than 'the company that never acknowledged the decline in card stock when a toddler could see that it was fact said so'