We've always had the ability to print a single-double sided card. It requires printing an extra double-sided sheet (most cards have normal Magic backs, which are preprinted en masse prior to sets being printed) of nothing but that card. Doing this has logistical and, more importantly, financial implications, meaning that it's something that has to be important enough to justify doing. Having Core Set 2019 built around Nicol Bolas and his past felt like it was central enough to the set to justify.
I bolded the statement of interest. Does WotC supply the printer with pre-printed cardstock? Or does the chosen printer just pre-print all the card backs for their print run on the specified/supplied cardstock? I'm just curious if/when the current cardstock is all used up, maybe a quality change could be done.
Does WotC supply the printer with pre-printed cardstock?
No. All cards in a booster pack except tokens/rules inserts and DFCs have the same card back, so the printer prints a stock of sheets with the normal Magic back, since they know they're going to need a lot of it, regardless of what's in the upcoming set.
I'm just curious if/when the current cardstock is all used up, maybe a quality change could be done.
Let me preface my response by saying that I'm not an expert on paper chemistry. So if anyone knows more, be nice and don't tear me down but simply correct me.
I have a theory as to why we're very unlikely to see the same quality card stock as '93/'94 cardstock ever again.
The short answer is that we're never going to see the same paper formulation ever again. It's a bit like trying to make a double layer German chocolate cake without any Cocoa available. Hhmmmmm German chocolate......
But I digress. A while back I was watching a video by Rudy when he said something that caught my ear. At about 11:50 into the video he talks about Wizards, "literally can't get the old card stock." He says that, in 2013, the cardstock saw a turning point in quality coupled with an increase in production.
I vaguely remember reading an article about changes to the paper pulp industry years ago. I couldn't find the original article but I did finally I remember what it was about. Note those dates.
If a manufacturer wants to comply with new regulations without stopping production then I imagine they would begin changing their product before the new rules kick in to avoid paying fines or a shutdown. Would it stand to reason that they might start experimenting with a new process say... five years in advance? Enough time to get the formula rightish and ship the new product?
Got me. I say it's worth exploring though. Might explain, in part, why WotC does all this other stuff to get existing paper to work. They literally can't go back due to environmental regulations, and by extension, cost?
I'm just curious if/when the current cardstock is all used up, maybe a quality change could be done.
Let me preface my response by saying that I'm not an expert on paper chemistry. So if anyone knows more, be nice and don't tear me down but simply correct me.
I have a theory as to why we're very unlikely to see the same quality card stock as '93/'94 cardstock ever again.
The short answer is that we're never going to see the same paper formulation ever again. It's a bit like trying to make a double layer German chocolate cake without any Cocoa available. Hhmmmmm German chocolate......
But I digress. A while back I was watching a video by Rudy when he said something that caught my ear. At about 11:50 into the video he talks about Wizards, "literally can't get the old card stock." He says that, in 2013, the cardstock saw a turning point in quality coupled with an increase in production.
I vaguely remember reading an article about changes to the paper pulp industry years ago. I couldn't find the original article but I did finally I remember what it was about. Note those dates.
If a manufacturer wants to comply with new regulations without stopping production then I imagine they would begin changing their product before the new rules kick in to avoid paying fines or a shutdown. Would it stand to reason that they might start experimenting with a new process say... five years in advance? Enough time to get the formula rightish and ship the new product?
Got me. I say it's worth exploring though. Might explain, in part, why WotC does all this other stuff to get existing paper to work. They literally can't go back due to environmental regulations, and by extension, cost?
To produce paper for card stock they'd have to use chemical pulping as using mechanical pulping results in yellowing paper (see newsprint). Not knowing the exact source of the pulp, the major providers of pulp are South America from fast growing Eucalyptus trees and either Chile or China. Since the paper quality is determined by the type of pulp and the regulations specify chemicals, it's completely plausible that due to those restrictions it just isn't possible to make the exact paper used.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Its entirely possible to make that paper, but its just completely unfeasible by what it would cost.
Its like producing some old school computer chips today, they would be expensive, as factories are not equipped to build these old chips.
Technology goes on, and old machines just stop working at some point and are replaced with new stuff.
It might be worth it to look up the old paper and find info from the manufacturer.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I was not aware of the 2012 EPA rule for paper mills and agree the timing may be a reason why the changeover in cardstock occurred as stated in Rudy's video. I have some familiarity with pulp chemistry since my Dad worked as an engineer in many paper mills, and I have seen the HUGE rollers and shredded pulp being squeezed into paper. I think they used the Kraft process, and the Black Liquor from the pulping has an awful smell.
I work in an industry that is also heavily regulated by EPA, so I know how new regulations can change the way a company makes a product (i.e. more expensive) or effect the workers. Whatever the old cardstock was, probably used a pulping/bleaching reagent that is either no longer available for use or required far too much investment for the paper mill to continue using. I don't think this will be the last change to the cardstock for WotC.
The new cardstock is obviously not like the old stuff, but they have been experimenting with the coating more recently. If the current cardstock is readily available at their price point, the best hope for players is in the coating to fix the curl. Who knows if WotC actually went through the effort to show people outside of the company the cardstock/coating options? For all we know a more expensive coating could resolve that issue?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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I bolded the statement of interest. Does WotC supply the printer with pre-printed cardstock? Or does the chosen printer just pre-print all the card backs for their print run on the specified/supplied cardstock? I'm just curious if/when the current cardstock is all used up, maybe a quality change could be done.
It's like saying I ate a donut today. Does that mean I bought it?
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
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Let me preface my response by saying that I'm not an expert on paper chemistry. So if anyone knows more, be nice and don't tear me down but simply correct me.
I have a theory as to why we're very unlikely to see the same quality card stock as '93/'94 cardstock ever again.
The short answer is that we're never going to see the same paper formulation ever again. It's a bit like trying to make a double layer German chocolate cake without any Cocoa available. Hhmmmmm German chocolate......
But I digress. A while back I was watching a video by Rudy when he said something that caught my ear. At about 11:50 into the video he talks about Wizards, "literally can't get the old card stock." He says that, in 2013, the cardstock saw a turning point in quality coupled with an increase in production.
I vaguely remember reading an article about changes to the paper pulp industry years ago. I couldn't find the original article but I did finally I remember what it was about. Note those dates.
If a manufacturer wants to comply with new regulations without stopping production then I imagine they would begin changing their product before the new rules kick in to avoid paying fines or a shutdown. Would it stand to reason that they might start experimenting with a new process say... five years in advance? Enough time to get the formula rightish and ship the new product?
Got me. I say it's worth exploring though. Might explain, in part, why WotC does all this other stuff to get existing paper to work. They literally can't go back due to environmental regulations, and by extension, cost?
To produce paper for card stock they'd have to use chemical pulping as using mechanical pulping results in yellowing paper (see newsprint). Not knowing the exact source of the pulp, the major providers of pulp are South America from fast growing Eucalyptus trees and either Chile or China. Since the paper quality is determined by the type of pulp and the regulations specify chemicals, it's completely plausible that due to those restrictions it just isn't possible to make the exact paper used.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Its like producing some old school computer chips today, they would be expensive, as factories are not equipped to build these old chips.
Technology goes on, and old machines just stop working at some point and are replaced with new stuff.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
It might be worth it to look up the old paper and find info from the manufacturer.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I work in an industry that is also heavily regulated by EPA, so I know how new regulations can change the way a company makes a product (i.e. more expensive) or effect the workers. Whatever the old cardstock was, probably used a pulping/bleaching reagent that is either no longer available for use or required far too much investment for the paper mill to continue using. I don't think this will be the last change to the cardstock for WotC.
The new cardstock is obviously not like the old stuff, but they have been experimenting with the coating more recently. If the current cardstock is readily available at their price point, the best hope for players is in the coating to fix the curl. Who knows if WotC actually went through the effort to show people outside of the company the cardstock/coating options? For all we know a more expensive coating could resolve that issue?