MTG is one of my favorite pastimes all around,
it's a great way to spend time with friends or get to know other members of the community in a contest of competitive strategy.
-
But I've honestly considered putting the game down all together,
because IMO we as a gaming community have arguably the most toxic following I've ever witnessed (Without a close second!).
-
Now don't get me wrong! There are some truly good people that I've met playing this game, friendly, helpful, courteous and all around good sports.
But by-and-large. on a whole. The MTG community is dominated by people who are stuck up and condescending.
Even if we were to take the line of thought that MTG is a sport to it's complete conclusion,
((In other words, lets operate under the assumption that this game is a serious one, and to be fair, to plenty of people it is!))
In the world of competitive sports where players are competing for million dollar contracts, there is still a sense of respect regardless of whether you are winning, losing or anywhere in between. If you lose, you shake the other players hand and say congratulations.
So why is it that Spike McMagicplayer at the local FNM thinks he's gods gift to the game and he only lost because this that or the other.
Luck is a factor that every one of us is dealing with buddy. It's not that your the only one. It's that your the only one whining about it.
Even kindergartners get taught not to play a game if they can't handle losing.
A close friend shared a story with me recently,
he told me that after he beat another player at an FNM, the guy said to him.
"Ya now. If you would have played that right. I would have won."
((Yea sure, technically there is a correct way to play the game))-But;
Why?... I mean what is there to gain by saying that? Why take the wind out of someone else's sails? It wont change the result will it?... So what do you gain by disrespecting another player and telling them that they only won because they played wrong? They played in a way that won them the game... Say good job.
Even the acknowledgement of the "Right way vs Wrong way" (mentality) is obnoxious.
Just because something isn't "Hyper efficient" doesn't mean it's wrong. There is value in innovation.
I wasent there, but maybe the guy was just a bad bluffer or had an obvious tell. ((there is a human factor to this game too))
Why is it so hard for people to shut their mouths, play the game, and if they happen to lose. Say congrats and just shake the other players hand.
There's no trophy for complaining or being pedantic.
-
I bring this up because im curious,
does anyone else feel the same? Or is this just a me thing?
I love the thought of taking the game seriously,
but i hate the thought of taking a community with no sense of respect or sportsmanship seriously.
MTG is one of my favorite pastimes all around,
it's a great way to spend time with friends or get to know other members of the community in a contest of competitive strategy.
-
But I've honestly considered putting the game down all together,
because IMO we as a gaming community have arguably the most toxic following I've ever witnessed (Without a close second!).
-
Now don't get me wrong! There are some truly good people that I've met playing this game, friendly, helpful, courteous and all around good sports.
But by-and-large. on a whole. The MTG community is dominated by people who are stuck up and condescending.
Even if we were to take the line of thought that MTG is a sport to it's complete conclusion,
((In other words, lets operate under the assumption that this game is a serious one, and to be fair, to plenty of people it is!))
In the world of competitive sports where players are competing for million dollar contracts, there is still a sense of respect regardless of whether you are winning, losing or anywhere in between. If you lose, you shake the other players hand and say congratulations.
So why is it that Spike McMagicplayer at the local FNM thinks he's gods gift to the game and he only lost because this that or the other.
Luck is a factor that every one of us is dealing with buddy. It's not that your the only one. It's that your the only one whining about it.
Even kindergartners get taught not to play a game if they can't handle losing.
A close friend shared a story with me recently,
he told me that after he beat another player at an FNM, the guy said to him.
"Ya now. If you would have played that right. I would have won."
((Yea sure, technically there is a correct way to play the game))-But;
Why?... I mean what is there to gain by saying that? Why take the wind out of someone else's sails? It wont change the result will it?... So what do you gain by disrespecting another player and telling them that they only won because they played wrong? They played in a way that won them the game... Say good job.
Even the acknowledgement of the "Right way vs Wrong way" (mentality) is obnoxious.
Just because something isn't "Hyper efficient" doesn't mean it's wrong. There is value in innovation.
I wasent there, but maybe the guy was just a bad bluffer or had an obvious tell. ((there is a human factor to this game too))
Why is it so hard for people to shut their mouths, play the game, and if they happen to lose. Say congrats and just shake the other players hand.
There's no trophy for complaining or being pedantic.
-
I bring this up because im curious,
does anyone else feel the same? Or is this just a me thing?
I love the thought of taking the game seriously,
but i hate the thought of taking a community with no sense of respect or sportsmanship seriously.
I played a game of pickup basketball at the gym last week and a guy got upset when he thought someone traveled and beaned him in the face with a basketball.
Every sport/game has its sore losers and people who take it too seriously.
And no it's not just you. The community is terrible. Still, some of the players are okay and an fnm is a good way to kill a few hours. At least that's how I rationalize it
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'm sure there's more to it, but I think one of the main reasons why Magic has more people "like that" is the fact that Magic has money prizes even at the lowest competitive level like FNM.
I played Warhammer 40k since '94 and went to some big tournaments here in Denmark over the years, but the prizes at Warhammer tournaments are more or less just the honour of winning and maybe a free box of Warhammer or something. It's not huge $10k checks like a GP top spot and the Warhammer community almost had none of those "alpha nerds" as I call them.
The contrast between the Warhammer and Magic community is huge and I really think the money prizes is a big factor in that.
Those Alpha Nerds just constantly feel some need to elevate themselves, put other people down and let everybody know how great they were. Lots of very condescending types who will stop at nothing to tell you how ***** your play/idea/plan is. I think most of those people have pretty sad lives and will do evertyhing they can to dominate "their territory" at every level. Some I think are just bad people inside and outside of the game store. You can barely have a normal conversation with some because it always feels like some sort of battle of wits or something. Always on their toes looking for a "fight".
It gets very tiresome having to deal with people like that so much and it takes a lot of the enjoyment and fun out of the game for me.
"why don't you just avoid the people you don't like?" I do, but I for some reason always get paired against one dude I can't stand hehe.
Don't get me wrong, I've met some great people at fnm and I have a lot of fun playing with most of the guys at my local game store because we're all adults and can take losing. I mean of course it sucks getting your ass whooped 0-4 sometimes, but I just went 1-3 last night, but I had a ton of fun playing so I didn't care about losing. You win some, you lose some.
I guess I'm glad I have a group of friends I grew up with who all play cards again now and we meet pretty often to have fun. I'm even getting some of them into standard hehe. Would just be nice if the level of alpha nerds was lower at the stores.
In answer to the thread title. Not really... every community has a mix of amazing, good, neutral, bad, and then worst level people. Just have to get used to it imo. I would not reach 2k posts in this forum if mtg is the worst community. This game is fun, and I met many good people in this forum and real life because of mtg.
Magic community is pretty bad when you get to the competitive junkies/grinders. The problem is, even though it may be a small percent of players,those moments will stick with players and be completely turned off by it. Video gaming communities are probably worse, but then again it's only online so you kind of expect people to say more things when they're on their computer compared to in person.
Yeah, Magic's community isn't that bad. It's definitely not "the worst."
A close friend shared a story with me recently,
he told me that after he beat another player at an FNM, the guy said to him.
"Ya now. If you would have played that right. I would have won."
I'm not going to minimize how your friend felt after that, but you're definitely overinflating its severity. Magic by and large has an incredibly positive community that by and large works to stop harassment and toxic behavior before it can become normalized. Players who cheat, bully, or abuse others are generally given warnings or banned from sanctioned play. "Brash" personalities (like you see in some sports and e-sports) are generally frowned upon and treated as unsavory. There was a guy at the store I go to that had repeated complaints about bullying, sexist statements, and other such issues. He basically acted like the stereotypical meathead "alpha male" while at the store. He got banned for six months for it. Just recently a pro player was caught purposefully misplaying a card and was banned for a year for a repeat infraction. The whole Jeremy Hambly (I think that was his name) online bullying controversy got him banned for life.The same can't be said for a lot of other communities.
Online gaming communities (League of Legends, console online communities, etc) are far and away worse. I've heard horror stories of Yugioh being incredibly toxic. I've been cussed out by players because I want to play for fun on casual games and I don't minmax characters. I'm a boxing coach and homophobic, transphobic, and sexist jokes are made all the time and applauded. Drug abuse runs rampant in the sport and in some circles are highly encouraged. Sports fans in general are absolutely awful to each other in the name of team solidarity.
Go to sites like 4chan or r/thedonald and tell me Magic's community is bad in comparison. 4chan's own Magic community throws absolute fits about the state of the game because of female and ethnic representation and say absolutely awful things about women and minorities in general in regards to the game.
I'm by no means trying to say Magic's community is perfect. It's not. But, for me, it's one of the best and most accepting communities I've been a part of.
What is "the MTG community" anyway? Is it the people here on the forums? Is it the people you meet at you LGS? Is it the grinders on MTGO?
I don't think your claim holds true for all, or even most, MTG communities. Nobody ever gets to interact with all of the community, so I'd argue the MTG community is who you choose to interact with. I don't play MTGO and don't visit LGSs, most people I play with are friends and friends of friends - so the community I get to interact with is great.
That's a good post. We're similar. My very first "mtg community" are my cousins and their cousins. Maybe it's just irony... all of us who were the same age played fair.. but the oldest one, about 6 or 7 years older than us tried to rules lawyer and bend the rules to his advantage.. typical older guy trying to trick the kids scenario, so that's 5 decent people and one slightly not decent person in the group. Eventually, it's just us whom the same age played together, and our "community" also became great. That was many years ago before I discovered this forum which is another great community.
For one, magic the gathering is not designed to be competitive. There is a reason lands are a part of the deck and that a card is set to a max of four copies. The game is designed so that even the best deck can fail to win a game due to mana issues or not drawing a specific card.
What happened is wizards trying to make the game competitive. All the play nice messages and forced togetherness stem from complaints caused by this forced competition. Even the secondary card market pricing, net decking, etc.
Richard didn't get up and say one day "I'm going to make a paper fantasy sports game..." he made the game to be a casually enjoyed time filler game for pen and paper fantasy lovers.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I played a game of pickup basketball at the gym last week and a guy got upset when he thought someone traveled and beaned him in the face with a basketball.
Every sport/game has its sore losers and people who take it too seriously.
As someone who has played a lot of pickup games outside AND in gyms, I have never seen something like this before. I have been close to a fight before against a bigger guy who kept lowering his shoulder when I was defending him. There have been many, many, many arguments over the years. But throwing the ball in someone's face. Never seen that happen. That's crazy. I think the one thing about traveling is that everyone is the next Allen Iverson, so you gotta let them get away with something at least every once in a while if an NBA player does also get away with it.
Regarding mtg, I think it just varies from spot to spot. I've heard horror stories here on mtgsalvation, but I've played since 1994 and rarely even had so much of a medium problem. There is always going to be salt in Magic. I can be salty from time to time. There's nothing like going from 3-0 to 3-2 and knowing you just lost 2 win and ins. I personally don't get too mad if there's salt, but mostly because it happens with me too. It is something I am trying to work on because I don't want to be a bad sport. Most of the time, I am not a bad sport. But I got to cut it out completely.
I think it goes both ways. There are some situations where players bully others, but I think a lot of it can be ignored. If you are someone who is going to just quit playing Magic or not enjoy playing Magic because of that one douchebag at your store that bullies you, then it's going to be tough for you. You have to have a thicker skin and I'm not condoning what they do. They also need to work on some things, but YOU can only help YOU. Good luck!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I stopped playing Magic in tournaments in 2003 as a result. Too many reclusive, ill-mannered, or social non-integrated people. But then again, I also stopped playing Dota because its community is just horrendously toxic.
Have you played other nerdy games? I have seen some real entitled grognards in Magic but they pale in comparison to the git wizards I have met while playing Warhammer, and those pale in comparison to some of the truly vile people I have had the misfortune of playing D&D with.
I have encountered the types of people you have described in:
- Magic
- WoW TCG
- Vs. System
- YuGiOh
- Duel Masters
- Heroclix
- X-Wing
- Star Wars Armada
- Warhammer Fantasy Battle
- Warhammer 40k
- Warhammer Age of Sigmar
- Warmachine/Hordes
- D&D
- Pathfinder
Not to mention pretty much every competitive video game.
A close friend shared a story with me recently,
he told me that after he beat another player at an FNM, the guy said to him.
"Ya now. If you would have played that right. I would have won."
((Yea sure, technically there is a correct way to play the game))-But;
Why?... I mean what is there to gain by saying that? Why take the wind out of someone else's sails? It wont change the result will it?... So what do you gain by disrespecting another player and telling them that they only won because they played wrong? They played in a way that won them the game... Say good job.
This is actually really common. I bet that guy could pin point where he made a critical error that cost him the game. I do that a lot, it helps you become a better player. Maybe the guy's tone was vile but the idea behind his words is not bad.
Maybe the problem is thinking that there SHOULD be an MTG community? I don't consider myself to be a part of a community.
I've said this on other threads, but I play in a couple of highly competitive stores. Weekly modern gets its share of salt thrown around, but we are all adult enough to shrug it off because we can relate to luck of the draw, bad matchups etc. Nobody comes to blows, not even close. Someone says "damn if I'd only drawn X," most of us nod and go "yeah I hear ya," even the opponent says "damn tough break," and we all move on. Why? BECAUSE WE ARE ADULTS! We know that being down after a tough loss is not harassment, it isn't threatening, it isn't toxic. It is just a reaction that will not matter to anyone's life in five minutes. Get over it. Here's my take:
1. Toxic is one of the most overused terms when talking about culture today. It is used too often to describe too large a spectrum.
2. The problem with "communities" is that once you have more than a dozen people in a room it gets difficult to make sure everyone's preferences line up. Stores can have communities. The game as a whole can't, nor should it.
3. Too many people are too sensitive, and they believe they have a right to never hear anything they don't like.
I do like that WOTC tried to address this by stating that FNM was designed to be for casual players while the new standard showdown was aimed at the more competitive players. It is a step in the right direction. Tiers need to be established at WPN stores. I don't go to game days. I don't want super casual players at PPTQs. So on and so forth.
I did encounter similar people in Tracking, Soccer, and Basketball. They may be slightly different in unpleasant manners compared to other hobbies like gaming, but toxic people are everywhere. Actually I find less toxic people in real life MTG than other gaming and non-gaming activities. I guess I'm just lucky or I got good at avoiding these people.
The behavior described as an example why MTG community is toxic doesn't seem like a big deal or even unique within it. I have seen way worse behaviors than that (within and outside MTG) and in some cases borderline criminal. People take their hobbies anywhere more serious than needed. It's basically a big part of their identity and it may be very unpleasant. However, If you can't stand this, I think it's quite hard to delve deep in any hobby that requires a lot of interaction with other people. It's just people being people.
League of Legends has a much worse community than Magic does.
as a long term player of both games, they're about the same at their worst, but because League is usually played over the Internet xXxYasuoMasterxXx feels safer blaming the team for him being 0/10/0 at 5 minutes than he would at a LAN party. Like, people talk more ***** anonymously than irl.
With that said, some of my female friends who play Magic and comp videogames have said they prefer to play over the net (without voice chat) rather than in person if they're not with friends, because they don't want to deal with sexist grognards, which seems fair enough.
Like, personally, Magic does seem to have nicer people in general, and I wouldn't play so much EDH if the community really sucked, but there are some scumbags in the MTG community too.
I did encounter similar people in Tracking, Soccer, and Basketball. They may be slightly different in unpleasant manners compared to other hobbies like gaming, but toxic people are everywhere. Actually I find less toxic people in real life MTG than other gaming and non-gaming activities. I guess I'm just lucky or I got good at avoiding these people.
The behavior described as an example why MTG community is toxic doesn't seem like a big deal or even unique within it. I have seen way worse behaviors than that (within and outside MTG) and in some cases borderline criminal. People take their hobbies anywhere more serious than needed. It's basically a big part of their identity and it may be very unpleasant. However, If you can't stand this, I think it's quite hard to delve deep in any hobby that requires a lot of interaction with other people. It's just people being people.
While I agree with you and BlueTronFTW to a point and even alluded to it in my former post, WE also need to be cognizant of what we say.
Do you know how embarrassed I was that I said the "F" word in front of a 9 year old Magic player playing 2 seats from me? I was feeling pretty badly about that later on, so I apologized to him and his dad the next FNM (they have been good friends for a while). The odd part is that he said that he didn't even hear it, which could have been true since when you're engrossed in your match, you often don't hear things from the "outside." That actually made me feel better because honestly, I'm too damn old to be acting like that (who cares if I drew 0 lands in a game?). I think that this needs to be worked on from BOTH sides. Be more careful about what you say and how you act. And have a thicker skin for how people act and what they say.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I now want to create a prison drama where everyone plays Magic. I think I'll call it Stax.
Then I realized Yugioh already did that in the 5D's anime.
It's not even unique to sports. Just look at the Steven Universe fandom:
Group of SU fans A: Rose is Pink Diamond!
Group of SU fans B: Stop saying Rose is Pink Diamond!
*"A Single Pale Rose" premiers*
Group of SU fans B: Rose being Pink Diamond is the stupidest plot twist I've ever seen in my life! It was totally out of nowhere!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
it's a great way to spend time with friends or get to know other members of the community in a contest of competitive strategy.
-
But I've honestly considered putting the game down all together,
because IMO we as a gaming community have arguably the most toxic following I've ever witnessed (Without a close second!).
-
Now don't get me wrong! There are some truly good people that I've met playing this game, friendly, helpful, courteous and all around good sports.
But by-and-large. on a whole. The MTG community is dominated by people who are stuck up and condescending.
Even if we were to take the line of thought that MTG is a sport to it's complete conclusion,
((In other words, lets operate under the assumption that this game is a serious one, and to be fair, to plenty of people it is!))
In the world of competitive sports where players are competing for million dollar contracts, there is still a sense of respect regardless of whether you are winning, losing or anywhere in between. If you lose, you shake the other players hand and say congratulations.
So why is it that Spike McMagicplayer at the local FNM thinks he's gods gift to the game and he only lost because this that or the other.
Luck is a factor that every one of us is dealing with buddy. It's not that your the only one. It's that your the only one whining about it.
Even kindergartners get taught not to play a game if they can't handle losing.
A close friend shared a story with me recently,
he told me that after he beat another player at an FNM, the guy said to him.
"Ya now. If you would have played that right. I would have won."
((Yea sure, technically there is a correct way to play the game))-But;
Why?... I mean what is there to gain by saying that? Why take the wind out of someone else's sails? It wont change the result will it?... So what do you gain by disrespecting another player and telling them that they only won because they played wrong? They played in a way that won them the game... Say good job.
Even the acknowledgement of the "Right way vs Wrong way" (mentality) is obnoxious.
Just because something isn't "Hyper efficient" doesn't mean it's wrong. There is value in innovation.
I wasent there, but maybe the guy was just a bad bluffer or had an obvious tell. ((there is a human factor to this game too))
Why is it so hard for people to shut their mouths, play the game, and if they happen to lose. Say congrats and just shake the other players hand.
There's no trophy for complaining or being pedantic.
-
I bring this up because im curious,
does anyone else feel the same? Or is this just a me thing?
I love the thought of taking the game seriously,
but i hate the thought of taking a community with no sense of respect or sportsmanship seriously.
I played a game of pickup basketball at the gym last week and a guy got upset when he thought someone traveled and beaned him in the face with a basketball.
Every sport/game has its sore losers and people who take it too seriously.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'm sure there's more to it, but I think one of the main reasons why Magic has more people "like that" is the fact that Magic has money prizes even at the lowest competitive level like FNM.
I played Warhammer 40k since '94 and went to some big tournaments here in Denmark over the years, but the prizes at Warhammer tournaments are more or less just the honour of winning and maybe a free box of Warhammer or something. It's not huge $10k checks like a GP top spot and the Warhammer community almost had none of those "alpha nerds" as I call them.
The contrast between the Warhammer and Magic community is huge and I really think the money prizes is a big factor in that.
Those Alpha Nerds just constantly feel some need to elevate themselves, put other people down and let everybody know how great they were. Lots of very condescending types who will stop at nothing to tell you how ***** your play/idea/plan is. I think most of those people have pretty sad lives and will do evertyhing they can to dominate "their territory" at every level. Some I think are just bad people inside and outside of the game store. You can barely have a normal conversation with some because it always feels like some sort of battle of wits or something. Always on their toes looking for a "fight".
It gets very tiresome having to deal with people like that so much and it takes a lot of the enjoyment and fun out of the game for me.
"why don't you just avoid the people you don't like?" I do, but I for some reason always get paired against one dude I can't stand hehe.
Don't get me wrong, I've met some great people at fnm and I have a lot of fun playing with most of the guys at my local game store because we're all adults and can take losing. I mean of course it sucks getting your ass whooped 0-4 sometimes, but I just went 1-3 last night, but I had a ton of fun playing so I didn't care about losing. You win some, you lose some.
I guess I'm glad I have a group of friends I grew up with who all play cards again now and we meet pretty often to have fun. I'm even getting some of them into standard hehe. Would just be nice if the level of alpha nerds was lower at the stores.
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
But yes, MTG is cancerous. God forbid I beat any of the "top" players at my store. It gets old to listen to them whine.
They are super nice, when they are winning. But if they lose, especially to someone who they deem "not as good" they turn into children.
I'm not going to minimize how your friend felt after that, but you're definitely overinflating its severity. Magic by and large has an incredibly positive community that by and large works to stop harassment and toxic behavior before it can become normalized. Players who cheat, bully, or abuse others are generally given warnings or banned from sanctioned play. "Brash" personalities (like you see in some sports and e-sports) are generally frowned upon and treated as unsavory. There was a guy at the store I go to that had repeated complaints about bullying, sexist statements, and other such issues. He basically acted like the stereotypical meathead "alpha male" while at the store. He got banned for six months for it. Just recently a pro player was caught purposefully misplaying a card and was banned for a year for a repeat infraction. The whole Jeremy Hambly (I think that was his name) online bullying controversy got him banned for life.The same can't be said for a lot of other communities.
Online gaming communities (League of Legends, console online communities, etc) are far and away worse. I've heard horror stories of Yugioh being incredibly toxic. I've been cussed out by players because I want to play for fun on casual games and I don't minmax characters. I'm a boxing coach and homophobic, transphobic, and sexist jokes are made all the time and applauded. Drug abuse runs rampant in the sport and in some circles are highly encouraged. Sports fans in general are absolutely awful to each other in the name of team solidarity.
Go to sites like 4chan or r/thedonald and tell me Magic's community is bad in comparison. 4chan's own Magic community throws absolute fits about the state of the game because of female and ethnic representation and say absolutely awful things about women and minorities in general in regards to the game.
I'm by no means trying to say Magic's community is perfect. It's not. But, for me, it's one of the best and most accepting communities I've been a part of.
I don't think your claim holds true for all, or even most, MTG communities. Nobody ever gets to interact with all of the community, so I'd argue the MTG community is who you choose to interact with. I don't play MTGO and don't visit LGSs, most people I play with are friends and friends of friends - so the community I get to interact with is great.
UR Mizzix of the Izmagnus ~~~ Build your own win-condition: Finite Spellslinging
UR Brudiclad, Telchor Engineer ~~~ We are the Borg. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own.
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic ~~~ A Guide to dying slowly
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose ~~~ Marchesa's undying Marionettes
RGW Mayael the Anima ~~~ All Hail the Big Chungus
GWU Chulane, Teller of Tales ~~~ Permanents Only ETB Shenanigans
BGU Sidisi, Brood Tyrant ~~~ Sidisi's Restless Servants
WUBRG The Ur-Dragon ~~~ Dragons eat your face
That's a good post. We're similar. My very first "mtg community" are my cousins and their cousins. Maybe it's just irony... all of us who were the same age played fair.. but the oldest one, about 6 or 7 years older than us tried to rules lawyer and bend the rules to his advantage.. typical older guy trying to trick the kids scenario, so that's 5 decent people and one slightly not decent person in the group. Eventually, it's just us whom the same age played together, and our "community" also became great. That was many years ago before I discovered this forum which is another great community.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
What happened is wizards trying to make the game competitive. All the play nice messages and forced togetherness stem from complaints caused by this forced competition. Even the secondary card market pricing, net decking, etc.
Richard didn't get up and say one day "I'm going to make a paper fantasy sports game..." he made the game to be a casually enjoyed time filler game for pen and paper fantasy lovers.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
As someone who has played a lot of pickup games outside AND in gyms, I have never seen something like this before. I have been close to a fight before against a bigger guy who kept lowering his shoulder when I was defending him. There have been many, many, many arguments over the years. But throwing the ball in someone's face. Never seen that happen. That's crazy. I think the one thing about traveling is that everyone is the next Allen Iverson, so you gotta let them get away with something at least every once in a while if an NBA player does also get away with it.
Regarding mtg, I think it just varies from spot to spot. I've heard horror stories here on mtgsalvation, but I've played since 1994 and rarely even had so much of a medium problem. There is always going to be salt in Magic. I can be salty from time to time. There's nothing like going from 3-0 to 3-2 and knowing you just lost 2 win and ins. I personally don't get too mad if there's salt, but mostly because it happens with me too. It is something I am trying to work on because I don't want to be a bad sport. Most of the time, I am not a bad sport. But I got to cut it out completely.
I think it goes both ways. There are some situations where players bully others, but I think a lot of it can be ignored. If you are someone who is going to just quit playing Magic or not enjoy playing Magic because of that one douchebag at your store that bullies you, then it's going to be tough for you. You have to have a thicker skin and I'm not condoning what they do. They also need to work on some things, but YOU can only help YOU. Good luck!
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I have encountered the types of people you have described in:
- Magic
- WoW TCG
- Vs. System
- YuGiOh
- Duel Masters
- Heroclix
- X-Wing
- Star Wars Armada
- Warhammer Fantasy Battle
- Warhammer 40k
- Warhammer Age of Sigmar
- Warmachine/Hordes
- D&D
- Pathfinder
Not to mention pretty much every competitive video game.
This is actually really common. I bet that guy could pin point where he made a critical error that cost him the game. I do that a lot, it helps you become a better player. Maybe the guy's tone was vile but the idea behind his words is not bad.
I've said this on other threads, but I play in a couple of highly competitive stores. Weekly modern gets its share of salt thrown around, but we are all adult enough to shrug it off because we can relate to luck of the draw, bad matchups etc. Nobody comes to blows, not even close. Someone says "damn if I'd only drawn X," most of us nod and go "yeah I hear ya," even the opponent says "damn tough break," and we all move on. Why? BECAUSE WE ARE ADULTS! We know that being down after a tough loss is not harassment, it isn't threatening, it isn't toxic. It is just a reaction that will not matter to anyone's life in five minutes. Get over it. Here's my take:
1. Toxic is one of the most overused terms when talking about culture today. It is used too often to describe too large a spectrum.
2. The problem with "communities" is that once you have more than a dozen people in a room it gets difficult to make sure everyone's preferences line up. Stores can have communities. The game as a whole can't, nor should it.
3. Too many people are too sensitive, and they believe they have a right to never hear anything they don't like.
I do like that WOTC tried to address this by stating that FNM was designed to be for casual players while the new standard showdown was aimed at the more competitive players. It is a step in the right direction. Tiers need to be established at WPN stores. I don't go to game days. I don't want super casual players at PPTQs. So on and so forth.
The behavior described as an example why MTG community is toxic doesn't seem like a big deal or even unique within it. I have seen way worse behaviors than that (within and outside MTG) and in some cases borderline criminal. People take their hobbies anywhere more serious than needed. It's basically a big part of their identity and it may be very unpleasant. However, If you can't stand this, I think it's quite hard to delve deep in any hobby that requires a lot of interaction with other people. It's just people being people.
With that said, some of my female friends who play Magic and comp videogames have said they prefer to play over the net (without voice chat) rather than in person if they're not with friends, because they don't want to deal with sexist grognards, which seems fair enough.
Like, personally, Magic does seem to have nicer people in general, and I wouldn't play so much EDH if the community really sucked, but there are some scumbags in the MTG community too.
Art is life itself.
While I agree with you and BlueTronFTW to a point and even alluded to it in my former post, WE also need to be cognizant of what we say.
Do you know how embarrassed I was that I said the "F" word in front of a 9 year old Magic player playing 2 seats from me? I was feeling pretty badly about that later on, so I apologized to him and his dad the next FNM (they have been good friends for a while). The odd part is that he said that he didn't even hear it, which could have been true since when you're engrossed in your match, you often don't hear things from the "outside." That actually made me feel better because honestly, I'm too damn old to be acting like that (who cares if I drew 0 lands in a game?). I think that this needs to be worked on from BOTH sides. Be more careful about what you say and how you act. And have a thicker skin for how people act and what they say.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I now want to create a prison drama where everyone plays Magic. I think I'll call it Stax.
Then I realized Yugioh already did that in the 5D's anime.
It's not even unique to sports. Just look at the Steven Universe fandom:
Group of SU fans A: Rose is Pink Diamond!
Group of SU fans B: Stop saying Rose is Pink Diamond!
*"A Single Pale Rose" premiers*
Group of SU fans B: Rose being Pink Diamond is the stupidest plot twist I've ever seen in my life! It was totally out of nowhere!
On phasing:
Do the worst kind of people become attracted to MTG? Certainly
and there's nothing to stop the man children from being attracted to MTG, we all have to endure
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/334931-what-is-the-most-pimp-card-deck-youve-seen-or?comment=5361
Commander
RGOmnath, Locus of Rage Grenades! EDHGR
UWSygg's Defense, EDH - Voltron & ControlWU
BUGMimeoplasm EDH ft. Ifnir Cycling-discard comboBUG
WBTeysa, Connoisseur of CullingBW
BWSelenia & Recruiter of the Guard suicice combo EDHWB
UBRWGO-Kagachi - 5 Color Enchantments - EDHUBRWG