I have been playing Brawl for the past week, and have decided to stop until something changes. currently I am facing 60% Baral decks and the gameplay is so degenerative that I cant reasonably continue. The format does not have sideboards or main=-deckable answers to the mono counter spell strategy. I also have never been a big fan of "if you cant beat them, join them." I was really looking forward to Brawl, and its potential for brewing and interesting game play. now I only feel disappointed.
Think about the rate at which Standard gets solved, now turn that into a singleton format, bound to happen sooner than later.
Well Baral is already a god in cEDH at least of blue so him being a powerhouse in Brawl is kinda obvious. Especially when you consider most of the strongest commanders outside of Brawl come from Commander or Conspiracy Products. No competition in standard most of the time.
1. Maybe stop playing with people who only bring competitive decks
2. Play more multiplayer. That one guy bringing Baral is going to feel some pain when he angers three+ players.
that was one of the first things we talked about at edh night when this new format was spoiled. how easy it would be to solve, how stagnant it would become. the limited card pool is pretty much always going to make certain legends rise to the top, and the rest won't be able to over come them because of lack of tools leading to a lack of power.
a lot of what lets weaker decks compete in edh is gone in brawl
this will end up like tiny leaders in a few months.
While Baral is a monster in 1v1, he's much tamer in multiplayer since it's difficult to keep 3+ players in check with countermagic as opposed to just one.
I expect to see commanders the likes of Muldrotha and The Scarab God everywhere in the format though.
I don't really think Brawl is made for 1v1. It just leads to people playing the same commanders and the same decks (hence the nickname for 1v1 Brawl is Baral).
In multiplayer games, it is much easier to play with a wider diversity of Commanders and decks, since you can a) play political games and b) the strength of decks that do really well in 1v1 cannot usually take on more than 1 opponent at a time, for multiple rounds.
Same thing is true for Commander though. 1v1 Commander is hyper degenerate. Multiplayer Commander is much less so.
I don't really think Brawl is made for 1v1. It just leads to people playing the same commanders and the same decks (hence the nickname for 1v1 Brawl is Baral).
In multiplayer games, it is much easier to play with a wider diversity of Commanders and decks, since you can a) play political games and b) the strength of decks that do really well in 1v1 cannot usually take on more than 1 opponent at a time, for multiple rounds.
Same thing is true for Commander though. 1v1 Commander is hyper degenerate. Multiplayer Commander is much less so.
The optimized 1v1 Baral list can still archenemy three weaker commanders (ie anything not Bolas, Zacama, Muldothra or Jodah) with relative ease. I've both done it and had it done to me.
This is one of fhe reasons why I've been advocating for Brawl to act more like extended and allow for cards a year or two out of standard to promote deck diversity and make the format a little deeper.
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I don't really think Brawl is made for 1v1. It just leads to people playing the same commanders and the same decks (hence the nickname for 1v1 Brawl is Baral).
In multiplayer games, it is much easier to play with a wider diversity of Commanders and decks, since you can a) play political games and b) the strength of decks that do really well in 1v1 cannot usually take on more than 1 opponent at a time, for multiple rounds.
Same thing is true for Commander though. 1v1 Commander is hyper degenerate. Multiplayer Commander is much less so.
The optimized 1v1 Baral list can still archenemy three weaker commanders (ie anything not Bolas, Zacama, Muldothra or Jodah) with relative ease. I've both done it and had it done to me.
The problem if you ask me is that Brawl does not have room as it stands to really edge in on commander in the casual multiplayer scene but they also did not set it up very well to try to be a competitive format.
In order to try to make it a competative format it should have:
Games be 1v1
Games be best of 3
Have sideboards
Its banned list needs to not be attached to standard's banned list
In order to try to make it a casual format it should have:
Potentially extended its card pool. When a rotation happens in standard there are just no freaking cards to work with.
Diversified itself more from commander. Right now it looks like commander lite in that other than being an intro to commander it seems to serve little purpose.
Really, it needed to try to be a competitive 1v1 format or it needed to remove itself from commander further than it did. Right now it looks far too much like a casual commander format with all of the struggles and frustrations of standard but lacking a lot of incentive that either standard or commander has. My own personal preference would have been to try to make it more of a sanctioned format than a casual split off of the two formats.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
1) Baral, Chief of Compliance only has until "Spaghetti" set before he is knocked out of the format, basically six-ish months till he packs his bags or two sets.
2) If all your playing against is 1v1 Baral, then its no wonder. Its much like EDH, a 1v1 is very much different from a multiplayer match-up.
3) Adapt.
I wonder (kind of rhetorical as I realize WOTC likely just wanted to sell more Standard cards) why WOTC didn't go with a Commander format like Brawl (i.e. allow planeswalkers to be commanders, consider a different starting life today and consider no commander damage), but allow all non-reserved list cards and those funky cards that are banned in all formats.
I think a format like that could catch on (although I hope actual Commander would still stay a thing as it is fun to play with reserved list cards (just expensive and ever dwindling supply)).
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I wonder (kind of rhetorical as I realize WOTC likely just wanted to sell more Standard cards) why WOTC didn't go with a Commander format like Brawl (i.e. allow planeswalkers to be commanders, consider a different starting life today and consider no commander damage), but allow all non-reserved list cards and those funky cards that are banned in all formats.
I think a format like that could catch on (although I hope actual Commander would still stay a thing as it is fun to play with reserved list cards (just expensive and ever dwindling supply)).
I'd personally just ban all Resserved List cards from Commander and allow walkers to be commanders. Then make Brawl start at Origins.
How has the reception to Brawl been generally? Personally, the shallow card pool is what keeps me away. It just doesn't seem all that interesting when I can play Commander. I guess it functions as an on-ramp to Commander for newer players, so that's cool.
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Can you name all of the creature types with at least 20 cards? Try my Sporcle Quiz! Last Updated: 6/29/20 (Core Set 2021).
Feels like tiny leaders, and tiny leaders felt constrained despite having a much bigger list of cards.
Difference is, Tiny Leaders did not have WotC's official seal of approval. WotC will keep tweaking their releases to cater to Brawl, in a way that they simply would not do with Tiny Leaders (since it was unsanctioned>
Honestly, both locally and online, the verdict seems to be a general shrug of disinterest. That's not a bias I have, either; by the end of the day that Brawl was first revealed I had five decks built. I just can't seem to find someone who wants to play. And by now, I'm also getting a bit disillusioned - it's not that fun having to finish decks out with 5-10 cards that are pure jank just to make the numbers, there are obvious spikes and dead ends beyond just Baral, and it's hard to make a deck of one particular colour identity be different from another of the same colours.
Brawl has picked up steam locally. The local FLGS owner is going to start running 1v1 events. I see lots of people playing Brawl casually at the local store. Talking with people I know who do not go to stores, it seems mildly popular at kitchen tables. I think it is just going to be a regional thing, where some places embrace it and some do not. WotC will need to address the format's problems in some way before it can truly take off.
Feels like tiny leaders, and tiny leaders felt constrained despite having a much bigger list of cards.
Difference is, Tiny Leaders did not have WotC's official seal of approval. WotC will keep tweaking their releases to cater to Brawl, in a way that they simply would not do with Tiny Leaders (since it was unsanctioned).
That would be quite the set overhaul to alleviate some problems. Such as the limited card selection for deck building.
As others have said this seems to be a problem with expectations for the format. In multiplayer, degenerate decks like Baral have to fight through aggression from multiple other players, which naturally balances the format. As a result there are large differences in the banlists for 1v1 and multiplayer EDH. So if you want brawl to be a healthy multiplayer format, then you probably should never hold these competitive 1v1 tournaments. Banning Baral may be appropriate in the end, but it could also set a dangerous precedent in which cards that are fine in multiplayer get axed for being degenerate in 1v1. Similarly, there could be big, clunky cards that would never see play in 1v1 but are oppressive in multiplayer. A messier, but ultimately more appropriate solution might be to start separate banlists for 1v1/competitive and multiplayer/casual brawl, as exists for EDH.
Well Baral is already a god in cEDH at least of blue so him being a powerhouse in Brawl is kinda obvious. Especially when you consider most of the strongest commanders outside of Brawl come from Commander or Conspiracy Products. No competition in standard most of the time.
2. Play more multiplayer. That one guy bringing Baral is going to feel some pain when he angers three+ players.
The ones that provide mana in some way or another are especially strong.
Brawl suffers from that a lot, as Baral provides such an easy guaranteed 2 drop for a control-shell.
They could and probably should just BAN Baral, and it made me wonder why they didnt in the last banning announcement.
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a lot of what lets weaker decks compete in edh is gone in brawl
this will end up like tiny leaders in a few months.
I expect to see commanders the likes of Muldrotha and The Scarab God everywhere in the format though.
In multiplayer games, it is much easier to play with a wider diversity of Commanders and decks, since you can a) play political games and b) the strength of decks that do really well in 1v1 cannot usually take on more than 1 opponent at a time, for multiple rounds.
Same thing is true for Commander though. 1v1 Commander is hyper degenerate. Multiplayer Commander is much less so.
-Chandra Nalaar
I have not seen that but good for you?
In order to try to make it a competative format it should have:
In order to try to make it a casual format it should have:
Really, it needed to try to be a competitive 1v1 format or it needed to remove itself from commander further than it did. Right now it looks far too much like a casual commander format with all of the struggles and frustrations of standard but lacking a lot of incentive that either standard or commander has. My own personal preference would have been to try to make it more of a sanctioned format than a casual split off of the two formats.
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2) If all your playing against is 1v1 Baral, then its no wonder. Its much like EDH, a 1v1 is very much different from a multiplayer match-up.
3) Adapt.
fify?
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I think a format like that could catch on (although I hope actual Commander would still stay a thing as it is fun to play with reserved list cards (just expensive and ever dwindling supply)).
Modern: URW Madcap Experiment
Pauper: MonoU Tempo Delver
My EDH Commanders:
Aminatou, The Fateshifter UBW
Azami, Lady of Scrolls U
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed B
Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG
Glissa, the Traitor BG
Arcum Dagsson U
My 720 Peasant Cube
Difference is, Tiny Leaders did not have WotC's official seal of approval. WotC will keep tweaking their releases to cater to Brawl, in a way that they simply would not do with Tiny Leaders (since it was unsanctioned>
Brawl has picked up steam locally. The local FLGS owner is going to start running 1v1 events. I see lots of people playing Brawl casually at the local store. Talking with people I know who do not go to stores, it seems mildly popular at kitchen tables. I think it is just going to be a regional thing, where some places embrace it and some do not. WotC will need to address the format's problems in some way before it can truly take off.